As for trading the pick to acquire the old Ottawa Unicorn of a top 6 forward or any other roster-ready impact player, I am quite dubious. I lean the other way, in fact. Expansion is official next season and seems like a reasonable possibility again within two years after that. I'd rather a controllable blue chip asset going forward that is not susceptible to immediate poaching. I am sorry, but as it stands and even with Hoffman signed and a healthy MacArthur et. al plus improved coaching, I do not envision this roster being truly cup worthy barring perfectly timed unsustainables. One top 6 player or what have you is not going to change that either way; there are more holes than the trade value of the 12th overall pick can repair on its own.
- Hertlocker

My suggested moves included adding a top 6 forward, a top 9 forward, and a quality NHL Dman. ( Murray tracks more to top4 through stats, but I think he may need some time on bottom pair ).
If you don't think adding that on top of the current core isn't enough to be competitive with the top of the conference, then you must feel this core isn't really one you CAN win with. You can't really keep that core AND add much more than that.

Instead, I think the Sens might be wise to keep their salary low via keeping picks and act the spider waiting in its web via the use of cap flexibility to address the future of their goaltending post Anderson as well as a potential landing spot for hollow contracts (ie Datsyuk - not entirely sure what others are out there).

- Hertlocker

Spending wisely is always good, and planning around the expansion is prudent, but decisions are going to need to be made. Guys like Turris and Stone are only 2 years away. Karlsson soon after. You aren't going to get those guys cheap. I'd like to see what this team can accomplish while they are on VERY reasonable contracts.

Finally, that proposed Skinner deal and the logic behind it, I can't support that. Canes are wanting to get younger? Skinner's only 24. He broke in and won the Calder at 18. As he returns to form after a string of concussions and the Canes' roster naturally improves, he is far more likely to return to a consistent 30+ goal scorer through the next 4-5 years of prime than regress. Even with his down years, his career average pace for goals over 82GP is 28. How many positive possession 30 goal scorers despite playing on middling talent rebuilding teams on reasonable contracts in their prime for the next half decade are there in the league? The answer's not many. If we know all of this, the Canes' management sure knows it too.
- Hertlocker

You missed my point. By saying the canes are looking to get younger, I was implying they wouldn't want to trade Skinner for a more experienced player. Like moving Skinner for a 27-28 year old wouldn't fit the model they are going for.

And that all comes before recognizing the salary floor will be $54m next season. The Canes are set to be $5m below with only a few relatively inconsequential contracts left to sign and even after including Bickell's albatross contract. Even with our 12th as bait, they still should have absolutely zero interest in settling on a depth forward coming off an absolutely unsustainable and aberrant season in exchange for the rarity that Skinner represents and to save a few $m only to be forced to overpay elsewhere to meet minimums. If this ever happened, their ask should be a lot more.
- Hertlocker

The canes are looking to take on another contract dump, so I doubt the floor will be a problem. Smith would act as a stop gap for the several prospects they will have.

That being different than Columbus' situation with Ryan Murray. A team up hard against the cap with a buyout candidate contract in Tyutin and an understandably unfocused emotional wreck in Johnson (google his family affairs). That leaves Jones, Savard, Werenski and a 22 year old Murray as their reliable, affordable, and again controllable core going forward. Aside from Jones, he's the Dman the Jackets should probably be most interested in keeping for a while longer. Remember Murray's a former #2 and has only just played his third season in the league after having the start of his pro-career derailed by a significant shoulder injury. Columbus depth at D is not such that they are willing to move him for a price most here are likely to find palatable based on the immediate optics. And if the Sens were to acquire him, he is definitely not going to be a 5-6 guy. And again, especially not for the price that would have to be paid to acquire him.

- Hertlocker

I'm just going off rumors Murray and the organization are at odds and they are looking to move him.

The Sens should get a good player at pick #12. They could have a better chance of getting the guy they want at pick #8.

That's where they would be picking if they hadn't won those two final meaningless games of the season.

My suggested moves included adding a top 6 forward, a top 9 forward, and a quality NHL Dman. ( Murray tracks more to top4 through stats, but I think he may need some time on bottom pair ).
If you don't think adding that on top of the current core isn't enough to be competitive with the top of the conference, then you must feel this core isn't really one you CAN win with. You can't really keep that core AND add much more than that.
- MaxTLimit

I was responding more to the Skinner trade proposal in a vacuum rather than the cumulative acquisitions you proposed - specifically for next season and the development internally in one year combined with a caution toward the expansion draft. So, the Skinner deal alone I'd obviously say no, I don't think they can compete next year. All three moves though might sway me, but again I don't think the Sens get the two trades for as cheap as proposed.

You missed my point. By saying the canes are looking to get younger, I was implying they wouldn't want to trade Skinner for a more experienced player. Like moving Skinner for a 27-28 year old wouldn't fit the model they are going for.

Okay, I think I did miss that. You meant another 27-28 year old scoring winger and not the 28 year old Smith? But I still don't think the Sens 12th plus Smith is a sweetener enough to sway the Canes given their situation. Regardless, despite the seeming depth of this draft, I don't know that a gamble on a 12th and 13th pick for Carolina is worthwhile vs the 13th and the proven commodity you know in Skinner that is that talent and right on the cusp of being mature and will still be a very valuable fill-in or mainstay for the next 4-5 years at least as the rest matures as well.

The canes are looking to take on another contract dump, so I doubt the floor will be a problem. Smith would act as a stop gap for the several prospects they will have.

I agree, they should be but with a few caveats. I question if they'd get Datsyuk's contract given the bad blood between their ownership group and Detroit's. On top of this, the Karmanos family is apparently going through a pretty intense financial feud at the moment via a $100+ million lawsuit filed by sons vs father. Not sure how significant this actually is, but I only mention it because if it is a concern, I don't know if the Canes would want to take on another albatross contract that actually has to be paid out and provides little return value beyond hitting the cap floor (like: Clarkson not like: Pronger, Savard, Datsyuk) vs. keep a decent sized one in Skinner who actually returns value and gives them far better potential for a playoff spot and the extra revenue there this season. Again, I am also not sure how many other Datsyukian ones there are out there at the moment, so your point could easily remain spot on. There's also the middle ground of taking on a Hartnell which is a fair bit of money but still returns value.

I'm just going off rumors Murray and the organization are at odds and they are looking to move him.

Same thing I am generally doing combined with some I hope educated guesses. So, more than fair. And don't get me wrong, I would love for this acquisition to happen. I personally just don't buy the Murray rumors in general or see the sense in them. Stranger stuff happens on the regular though. See any of Colorado's management decisions for the last or next several years.

I was responding more to the Skinner trade proposal in a vacuum rather than the cumulative acquisitions you proposed - specifically for next season and the development internally in one year combined with a caution toward the expansion draft. So, the Skinner deal alone I'd obviously say no, I don't think they can compete next year. All three moves though might sway me, but again I don't think the Sens get the two trades for as cheap as proposed.
- Hertlocker

Ah, okay. I was just making sure I was clear that I was proposing an aggressive move of multiple players.

Okay, I think I did miss that. You meant another 27-28 year old scoring winger and not the 28 year old Smith? But I still don't think the Sens 12th plus Smith is a sweetener enough to sway the Canes given their situation. Regardless, despite the seeming depth of this draft, I don't know that a gamble on a 12th and 13th pick for Carolina is worthwhile vs the 13th and the proven commodity you know in Skinner that is that talent and right on the cusp of being mature and will still be a very valuable fill-in or mainstay for the next 4-5 years at least as the rest matures as well.

- Hertlocker

Smith is in a contract year, which may be interesting tot he canes. Even if they don't resign him, if he does well he could be a useful trade chip if he has two solid years in a row. I'd agree that a lot depends on where the Carolina mindset is this year.

Same thing I am generally doing combined with some I hope educated guesses. So, more than fair. And don't get me wrong, I would love for this acquisition to happen. I personally just don't buy the Murray rumors in general or see the sense in them. Stranger stuff happens on the regular though. See any of Colorado's management decisions for the last or next several years.
- Hertlocker

Usually rumors amount to nothing these days, so deals like this are rare. Multiples deals based on rumors is asking a lot. I totally agree. It was a total pie in the sky situation.

Didn't think there was a chance in hell Sens would get Logan Brown


I wanted Keller but that obviously wasn't realistic.