I thought Karlsson had to play defense first in order to win it??

You do realize that Lidstrom took home the trophy in 10-11 with 62 pts and a -2.

Lubo Visnovsky had 68pts and a +18 that season.

Detroit also finished ahead of Anahiem in the standings that season.

That was the season I realized the Norris Trophy (and most of the awards) is a popularity contest and most of the writers are just copy cats who parrot what others say.


Karlsson had 82 pts and a -2 this season on a far worse hockey team.

Karlsson had one of the most outstanding seasons a Dman has ever had in the league's history. To lose out to a guy who had a good, but not amazing season, is absolutely ridiculous.

It's a popularity contest, plain and simple. It will always be a popularity contest.

An award for top scoring Dman isn't a bad idea. The Bobby Orr award.

Ian Mendes made some interesting points on twitter. 23 voters didn't even have Karlsson on their ballot. That's 23 writers who "didn't think" Karlsson was a top 5 dman this year. Frankly that's unreasonable and clearly points to a lack of objectivity. You could understand a few guys doing it, for instance 3 writers left Doughty off, but 23 writers completely left him off the ballot. That's a problem.

Congrats to Doughty
- Mikelly_18

23 had him outside of the top 3.
Only 4 had him outside the top 5.
19 had him 4th or 5th.

Are you comparing Karlsson to Bobby Orr?
- Charlie.Conway

The comparison is apt...APT!

Ian Mendes made some interesting points on twitter. 23 voters didn't even have Karlsson on their ballot. That's 23 writers who "didn't think" Karlsson was a top 5 dman this year. Frankly that's unreasonable and clearly points to a lack of objectivity. You could understand a few guys doing it, for instance 3 writers left Doughty off, but 23 writers completely left him off the ballot. That's a problem.

Congrats to Doughty
- Mikelly_18

There were actually more writers who had Karlsson 4th or worse last season, when he won the trophy.

I know Mendez and others are just trying to point out how ridiculous some of the writers are, but to be honest, just based on the numbers, it seems as though more of the writers are actually starting to warm up to his game.

More had him in the top 3 this year than last year.

But as I just said, it's a popularity contest. Doughty was pegged as the winner around the all-star break and most of the writers are just parrots.

The Norris, every year is marred in controversy. If the NHL wants these awards to really mean something its time to add more of them to eliminate these arguments. Defenders should have,potentially, 3 awards - Best overall, most points by D and some type of best defensive defender (maybe some combo of least turnovers, best +/- and most efficient PK all considered in comparison of per time on ice).

As defense morphed into what we know it as in the modern game, the Norris alone isnt enough. Players like EK don't stand out of their defensive play as much as many others, but in controlling the puck and being on offense so much they embody "the best D is a good O" kind of thinking.

I feel EK got robbed this year. Badly at that... but I also think he shouldn't have won it last season either. I guess it balances out in a way but the system needs some type of change.

Having said all that... these are just awards and we should all just take a breath and realize the game won't end or even be less exciting based on them.

The Norris, every year is marred in controversy. If the NHL wants these awards to really mean something its time to add more of them to eliminate these arguments. Defenders should have,potentially, 3 awards - Best overall, most points by D and some type of best defensive defender (maybe some combo of least turnovers, best +/- and most efficient PK all considered in comparison of per time on ice).

As defense morphed into what we know it as in the modern game, the Norris alone isnt enough. Players like EK don't stand out of their defensive play as much as many others, but in controlling the puck and being on offense so much they embody "the best D is a good O" kind of thinking.

I feel EK got robbed this year. Badly at that... but I also think he shouldn't have won it last season either. I guess it balances out in a way but the system needs some type of change.

Having said all that... these are just awards and we should all just take a breath and realize the game won't end or even be less exciting based on them.
- nords21

Oprah can be the host....you get a trophy, you get a trophy, everyone in here gets a trophy!!!

The Norris, every year is marred in controversy. If the NHL wants these awards to really mean something its time to add more of them to eliminate these arguments. Defenders should have,potentially, 3 awards - Best overall, most points by D and some type of best defensive defender (maybe some combo of least turnovers, best +/- and most efficient PK all considered in comparison of per time on ice).

As defense morphed into what we know it as in the modern game, the Norris alone isnt enough. Players like EK don't stand out of their defensive play as much as many others, but in controlling the puck and being on offense so much they embody "the best D is a good O" kind of thinking.

I feel EK got robbed this year. Badly at that... but I also think he shouldn't have won it last season either. I guess it balances out in a way but the system needs some type of change.

Having said all that... these are just awards and we should all just take a breath and realize the game won't end or even be less exciting based on them.
- nords21

Totally agreed. Well said.

Doughty > Karlsson

Regardless of the trophy. Period

Hall of Famer Mark Howe never won the Norris Trophy... of course, he had the "misfortune" of having Langway, Coffey, and Bourque as contemporaries.

As an aside, in looking at http://www.quanthockey.com for some all-time stats, I saw that Howe is the all-time leader among defensemen in scoring shorthanded goals, with 28... 2nd place is Coffey with 20.

Oprah can be the host....you get a trophy, you get a trophy, everyone in here gets a trophy!!!
- JaredCrozier

Hahahaha

Doughty > Karlsson

Regardless of the trophy. Period
- KINGS67

LOL. That's perfectly fine. We will keep Karlsson and you can keep doughty let's trade thoughts later.

Thanks for clarifying my earlier post guys I misunderstood.

On another note relating to this 'offensive defenceman' debate I want to say it's too bad there's no objective way to measure how good a defenceman is defensively. Ya know we can look at Karlsson's scoring and it's out of this world, so they call him an "offensive" dman.

But there's just no way to prove that he's a better "defensive" defenceman than Doughty because the NHL doesn't measure defensive things like taking the puck away, or blocking shots............

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...keaways&aggregate=0&pos=D

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...PerGame&aggregate=0&pos=D


oh

well I guess that settles it.

Doughty > Karlsson

Regardless of the trophy. Period
- KINGS67

I think so. Best Dman in the NHL and has been for a few years. Glad he's on team Canada.

"The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defenseman who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position. "
Not who had the best season, or who played better defense or offense. Karlsson didn't win it this year, did you lose out on some bonus money? some Sens fans are taking this as a personal insult...

"The James Norris Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the defenseman who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position. "
Not who had the best season, or who played better defense or offense. Karlsson didn't win it this year, did you lose out on some bonus money? some Sens fans are taking this as a personal insult...
- Stu17

Just curious in what way you feel that Doughty demonstrated the greatest all around ability this season? And it's not just Sens fans, not many people agree with this year's vote outside of the LA fanbase and the PHWA who decided at the start of the season that this is Doughty's year.

Are you comparing Karlsson to Bobby Orr?
- Charlie.Conway

Duh! No!

But Bobby Orr has compared himself to Eric Karlsson saying nobody in the NHL reminds him more of himself than what Karlsson does.

Oprah can be the host....you get a trophy, you get a trophy, everyone in here gets a trophy!!!
- JaredCrozier

Not everyone deserves a trophy... Nevertheless, if the NHL want awards to actually mean something they need to evolve with the game.

People are talking that a Sens - Sabres deal will be Hoffman + 12 for Ennis + 8.
I still don't like that.
- MaxTLimit

Agreed... there's really no part of that deal that I like. Now if they could swing a deal for someone like Reinhart, that would be interesting.

Did I read correctly that Ottawa might be in on a Hossa trade? That's a move I could get behind, given that he's only owed $8M for the next 5 seasons. Even at age 37 he's still a very useful 2nd/3rd line supporting winger, especially compared with what $1.6M/yr would return from the UFA market. Plus, if a buyout was necessary for something like the last 2 seasons of the contract you'd be talking about $330K/yr over 4 seasons, which in turn would free up over $5.2M of cap space. All of this also aligns well with the speculated '3-year' Karlsson window.

Agreed... there's really no part of that deal that I like. Now if they could swing a deal for someone like Reinhart, that would be interesting.

Did I read correctly that Ottawa might be in on a Hossa trade? That's a move I could get behind, given that he's only owed $8M for the next 5 seasons. Even at age 37 he's still a very useful 2nd/3rd line supporting winger, especially compared with what $1.6M/yr would return from the UFA market. Plus, if a buyout was necessary for something like the last 2 seasons of the contract you'd be talking about $330K/yr over 4 seasons, which in turn would free up over $5.2M of cap space. All of this also aligns well with the speculated '3-year' Karlsson window.
- khawk

There is no Karlsson 3 year window. At best it is a 2 year window where Ottawa contends or reality sets in and they deal Karlsson within the 24 month window. They will not allow themselves to get caught in a Stamkos type squeeze.

Karlsson will get a minimum 8 year $80m deal, perhaps more. Ottawa probably knows now if they want to do that deal two years out from now.

Love Karlsson, most fun player to watch in the NHL. But sometimes you can do a deal that sets you up as an elite contender for multiple years. I would do a deal for Karlsson today if Edmonton made the right offer.

but the award isn't for "who's the best dman in the league" it's for "which dman had the best season"........and i'm sorry but it wasn't doughty.

i agree with what jared said, you could make a very strong argument that doughty should have actually been 3rd....hell maybe even 4th (i think letang was better) in the norris voting. this vote was all about "doughty deserves to have atleast one norris so let's give it to him this year" and was not based on the fact that he was the best d-man this year.

just my opinion.
- sensarmy_11

That's fair, if Karlsson played for my team id probably feel the same way (in fact I feel like Kopitar beating Bergy for the selke is exactly the same). I just disagree that most points = best season.

That's fair, if Karlsson played for my team id probably feel the same way (in fact I feel like Kopitar beating Bergy for the selke is exactly the same). I just disagree that most points = best season.
- Shaundre93

it wasn't just most points.....he had more blocked shots, WAY more takeaways, fewer giveaways.

either way, it's done, i've moved on. karlsson will win another one i have no doubt........on to the draft.

There is no Karlsson 3 year window. At best it is a 2 year window where Ottawa contends or reality sets in and they deal Karlsson within the 24 month window. They will not allow themselves to get caught in a Stamkos type squeeze.

Karlsson will get a minimum 8 year $80m deal, perhaps more. Ottawa probably knows now if they want to do that deal two years out from now.

Love Karlsson, most fun player to watch in the NHL. But sometimes you can do a deal that sets you up as an elite contender for multiple years. I would do a deal for Karlsson today if Edmonton made the right offer.
- spatso

So there is a window?

Next 3 years are very important for this current roster. In my opinion, we have 3 years to win with the majority of this current roster. If the organization thinks, this core can do it, it's time to add reinforcements now and try to make a run.

You can't honestly expect Karlsson to sign a giant deal without the team loosing a significant player to make up for the finances in the process. Financially well off teams even have this hurdle.

I don't think moving Karlsson is a great idea. I think adding resources around him now is the best way forward.

it wasn't just most points.....he had more blocked shots, WAY more takeaways, fewer giveaways.

either way, it's done, i've moved on. karlsson will win another one i have no doubt........on to the draft.
- sensarmy_11

You realize that in order to block shots, or take the puck away, that means your team doesn't have the puck. The Kings had the puck more than any other team in the NHL. Of course Doughty is going to have fewer blocked shots and takeaways.

So there is a window?

Next 3 years are very important for this current roster. In my opinion, we have 3 years to win with the majority of this current roster. If the organization thinks, this core can do it, it's time to add reinforcements now and try to make a run.

You can't honestly expect Karlsson to sign a giant deal without the team loosing a significant player to make up for the finances in the process. Financially well off teams even have this hurdle.

I don't think moving Karlsson is a great idea. I think adding resources around him now is the best way forward.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I agree entirely. Add the pieces and go for it. Or, consolidate around Karlsson knowing that you will need to deal him before 2 years.

The 2nd option is the 2nd option. But it is better than the 3rd option of playing out the string leading into the entirely unhappy dynamic of a Stamkos type situation in year 3.