Just reiterating an argument used on this board over the years regarding the Hawks, but now applies to the Penguins.

Hawks have not gotten equal value back over the years when having to unload Sharp, et. al. due to the cap.

Now that the Pens are the SC champs why should any GM help them out of their cap situation by returning value for Malkin IF (a big IF) he's to be traded.

If Pittsburgh wants to shed salary they have to receive less money back and therefore lesser players.

In this scenario, I can't the Hawks as a player in this deal for the same reason... more money coming in than going out which they can't afford.
- boilermaker100

Been thinking that as well, but something that hasn't really been considered is a 3 team deal. Seems like a rarity in the NHL but why not? Unless there's a reason for them not being done (i.e. CBA or something else IDK about)

Dunno, some people have talked about a Kane-Malkin swap that might involve a pick or two or some other off-cap assets.

You could also put together a package like Anisimov, Kruger and Nick Schmaltz.

I don't know. What I HEARD the other day was the likelihood of the "rumored" deal was dependent on how much Malkin "wants out" of Pittsburgh.

Please know, I am not arguing that is true. But I have heard it a lot. FWIW.
- John Jaeckel

Kaner cleaned up last night in Vegas, but he didn't look all that happy about it. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but maybe he's been told he's being shopped and to keep him mouth shut. I dunno. Or maybe it's just with his family there and the hawks security he feels he's being caged up a bit.

"*Insert Player Name* is not going anywhere".....sadly, we've heard this way too many times and then doesn't hold up

Kaner cleaned up last night in Vegas, but he didn't look all that happy about it. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but maybe he's been told he's being shopped and to keep him mouth shut. I dunno. Or maybe it's just with his family there and the hawks security he feels he's being caged up a bit.
- 6628

Or he has grown up a bit and only wants Cups.....

JJ- Any thoughts on some of the first round talent that would be good fits for the Hawks? With Mocks starting to circulate, I was curious if you think there is anyone worth trading up for? or if sitting back at 50 is ok?

Obviously top guys like Laine/Tkachuk/etc would be nice, but realistically Riley Tufte and Max Jones seem to be 2 Forwards who could be traded up for that I wouldn't mind seeing. Both have size and ACTUALLY USE IT.

Niemeläinen's Size stands out as a blueline add, but I think we would need to currently trade up to get him and im not sure i'd lose an asset to get him. I dont see him falling to 50. Cam Dineen and Sean Day are the names I could see on the board at 50 and both seem would be solid pick up on D. Not sure i see a "perfect fit" fwd at 50...

I agree with JJ's assessment that the Hawks will have a regression to mediocrity with having a handful of high-priced assets and a depleted farm system.

The "reply" function is not working for me, so can't credit the poster that suggested there is more to this than we know.

For the fans hoping the Hawks avoid the slow decline: what do you think is the best way "to the top": shove off high-priced assets and get something for TODAY that makes you competitive, or intentionally drift back for a year or two and restock the Rock?

Posted this at the end of the last thread:

This whole Malkin rumor just seems completely unworkable. The player movement needed to fit him under the cap just seems absurd.

How would it be possible without moving one of T or K, or gutting the blueline?

And how would his acquisition, combined with the players lost, make the Hawks better?

...I just can't envision it.
- ArlingtonRob

1. It probably isn't.
2. It doesn't.

That's why it's a terrible idea. They would eliminate all depth, lose the ability to extend Panarin, and either have 42% of their cap tied into three players OR we have malkin who misses 20 games a season and we've lost Kane.

Kaner cleaned up last night in Vegas, but he didn't look all that happy about it. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but maybe he's been told he's being shopped and to keep him mouth shut. I dunno. Or maybe it's just with his family there and the hawks security he feels he's being caged up a bit.
- 6628

Like jj said cup+Conn Smythe>>>hart+art ross

I agree with JJ's assessment that the Hawks will have a regression to mediocrity with having a handful of high-priced assets and a depleted farm system.

The "reply" function is not working for me, so can't credit the poster that suggested there is more to this than we know.

For the fans hoping the Hawks avoid the slow decline: what do you think is the best way "to the top": shove off high-priced assets and get something for TODAY that makes you competitive, or intentionally drift back for a year or two and restock the Rock?
- phantasmo

Great...now you just gave the "Rebuilders" a cute little nickname for their cause...

Kaner cleaned up last night in Vegas, but he didn't look all that happy about it. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but maybe he's been told he's being shopped and to keep him mouth shut. I dunno. Or maybe it's just with his family there and the hawks security he feels he's being caged up a bit.
- 6628

So funny. . .I thought the same thing, particularly when he was talking about what a great ride it has been in Chicago (in multiple interviews) and the flat tone in those responses. Very different from his typical demeanor when he is happy about something. Made me nervous, but then I told myself I was spending too much time on the rumor board.

ETA: and yes, he definitely did say he would rather have the Cup.

The people that continue to offer up Seabrook - please tell me on a team that had to play the clown Gustafsson, the iceberg Svedburg, and Runblad - where will you make up Seabrook's 23min a game? His 121 hits from the blueline? (Rozy was next with 81...then TVR with 44) And he potted 14g last year?

I'm all for trading anyone when you can fill the role...but please tell me a name of someone that will be available to be a RH shot to do those things?

At least when CC gets offered up, you have Darling who may/may not be ready to take over and a discussion can happen.

I think you're seeing frustration from Pens fans because there are annual rumors that Malkin wants out and Malkin wants to be the man. And these rumors go against everything that he has said and done.

1) When drafted, he wasn't going to come to the Pens to stay and play in the KHL for a few years. He caused issues by jetting in the middle of the night to get out of Russia and play for the Pens.

2) He wouldn't stick around while Crosby got the 'C' and he would have be an alternate. Hasn't been a problem and he signed the bridge contract, same as Sid.

3) No way he was going to sign a long-term extension with the Pens because he wanted to be the man or go back to Russia. He immediately signs a max term contract for 9.5 a year. He makes more annually than Crosby.

On top of the false rumors, EK loves to stroke the flames of anything Pens related since he has stopped even remotely attempting to hide his ridiculous bias. Could Stan have called the Pens and asked about Malkin? Maybe. But I refuse to believe there is as much truth to him wanting to leave Pittsburgh as there is to the rumors Kessel went to the same hotdog stand every day in Toronto. It's made up media rumors so there is something to write/debate about during the off-season.

I think you're seeing frustration from Pens fans because there are annual rumors that Malkin wants out and Malkin wants to be the man. And these rumors go against everything that he has said and done.

1) When drafted, he wasn't going to come to the Pens to stay and play in the KHL for a few years. He caused issues by jetting in the middle of the night to get out of Russia and play for the Pens.

2) He wouldn't stick around while Crosby got the 'C' and he would have be an alternate. Hasn't been a problem and he signed the bridge contract, same as Sid.

3) No way he was going to sign a long-term extension with the Pens because he wanted to be the man or go back to Russia. He immediately signs a max term contract for 9.5 a year. He makes more annually than Crosby.

On top of the false rumors, EK loves to stroke the flames of anything Pens related since he has stopped even remotely attempting to hide his ridiculous bias. Could Stan have called the Pens and asked about Malkin? Maybe. But I refuse to believe there is as much truth to him wanting to leave Pittsburgh as there is to the rumors Kessel went to the same hotdog stand every day in Toronto. It's made up media rumors so there is something to write/debate about during the off-season.
- mw630

My source on it is employed by one of the two teams involved in a hockey role, FWIW.

1) When drafted, he wasn't going to come to the Pens to stay and play in the KHL for a few years. He caused issues by jetting in the middle of the night to get out of Russia and play for the Pens.

- mw630

The KHL did not even exist when Evgeni Malkin was drafted. He was playing in the Russian Super League at the time that he was drafted.

The people that continue to offer up Seabrook - please tell me on a team that had to play the clown Gustafsson, the iceberg Svedburg, and Runblad - where will you make up Seabrook's 23min a game? His 121 hits from the blueline? (Rozy was next with 81...then TVR with 44) And he potted 14g last year?

I'm all for trading anyone when you can fill the role...but please tell me a name of someone that will be available to be a RH shot to do those things?

At least when CC gets offered up, you have Darling who may/may not be ready to take over and a discussion can happen.
- PatShart

I think any movement of Seabrook would have to bring a righty D coming back. Someone that is cost-controlled and younger. Will there be a dropoff? Likely.

IF Seabrook is moved (haven't heard his name on this board or elsewhere), I think there is a real leadership element that is constantly talked about with him. How is that element replaced with the current roster?

I think you're seeing frustration from Pens fans because there are annual rumors that Malkin wants out and Malkin wants to be the man. And these rumors go against everything that he has said and done.

1) When drafted, he wasn't going to come to the Pens to stay and play in the KHL for a few years. He caused issues by jetting in the middle of the night to get out of Russia and play for the Pens.

2) He wouldn't stick around while Crosby got the 'C' and he would have be an alternate. Hasn't been a problem and he signed the bridge contract, same as Sid.

3) No way he was going to sign a long-term extension with the Pens because he wanted to be the man or go back to Russia. He immediately signs a max term contract for 9.5 a year. He makes more annually than Crosby.

On top of the false rumors, EK loves to stroke the flames of anything Pens related since he has stopped even remotely attempting to hide his ridiculous bias. Could Stan have called the Pens and asked about Malkin? Maybe. But I refuse to believe there is as much truth to him wanting to leave Pittsburgh as there is to the rumors Kessel went to the same hotdog stand every day in Toronto. It's made up media rumors so there is something to write/debate about during the off-season.
- mw630

I understand the angst of Penguins fans around the annual Malkin rumors. However, if it was Kane for Malkin, you should be ecstatic bc that is larceny (yet again) by Rutherford. I will literally march to Bowman's front door if he trades Kane for Malkin.

For like the 19th time, I apologize if it seemed I was suggesting AA and Kruger would be enough. Not what I intended. I was saying those were two names included "in possible deal." So yeah, I agree with you.
- John Jaeckel

JJ....would AA and Kruger be enough?


Sorry.

Every team in the league would call and inquire about Malkin if he is available. Rutherford tried to put these rumours to rest. I do think the Pens would trade Malkin for the right offer. It is going to take a whole lot more than Krueger and Anisimov. I think Pit can do better than what Chicago could offer.

Possibly. I'm sure the Hawks could make it interesting, but not sure how viable or realistic this rumor really is. I'm sure a team like the Hawks calls on everyone, but doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna happen.

At least your response is far more measured than the guy who said Keith and Panarin + for Malkin yesterday. And I though some Hawks folks overvalued their guys.

Dunno, some people have talked about a Kane-Malkin swap that might involve a pick or two or some other off-cap assets.

You could also put together a package like Anisimov, Kruger and Nick Schmaltz.

I don't know. What I HEARD the other day was the likelihood of the "rumored" deal was dependent on how much Malkin "wants out" of Pittsburgh.

Please know, I am not arguing that is true. But I have heard it a lot. FWIW.
- John Jaeckel

Kane for Malkin straight up, even if it involves picks I would not do.....bad deal for the Hawks. Kane for Tavares and picks, hmmm maybe...Kane for Eichel and a top pick....maybe. Sorry Gino but IMO he is not what the Hawks need, they need cap room and someone to replace the high salary you will shed to keep the depth and stay competitive...and the only way that happens is to unload large contracts and get close to the same value at lower price and the only way that happens is if you go younger or someone already tied in at lower price...a la Tavares.
Who knows maybe time to shed Kane's high salary and off ice distraction...as good as he has been....and he's been good but his value will never be higher....sooo do you do it? It would be an incredibly ballsy move by management that's for sure.....

I think any movement of Seabrook would have to bring a righty D coming back. Someone that is cost-controlled and younger. Will there be a dropoff? Likely.

IF Seabrook is moved (haven't heard his name on this board or elsewhere), I think there is a real leadership element that is constantly talked about with him. How is that element replaced with the current roster?
- phantasmo

What team would trade a RH young cost controlled Dman with the upside of Seabrook (which why I assume the Hawks would want him)...for Seabrook himself?

While acquiring Malkin would "allegedly kill" the depth of probably 2 roster players and a top prospect - he also is a guy that will make the other 4 guys on the ice with him MUCH BETTER and raise 4 people's value. He ...like Kane....makes everyone around him dangerous. Not many people in the league do that. Those two don't "need" certain players around them to compliment their play

What team would trade a RH young cost controlled Dman with the upside of Seabrook (which why I assume the Hawks would want him)...for Seabrook himself?
- PatShart

Someone in a "win-now" mode that thinks they are a Top 3 D away from contention.

In no way am I saying I would do it or it would happen, but you do tend to see teams swing for the fences when they are cup thirsty. Both very different types of forwards, but Ladd is a Top 6, Dano is "assumed" to be a future Top 6 with lots of potential. Hawks didn't blink sending him AND a 1st round pick out the door.

I understand the angst of Penguins fans around the annual Malkin rumors. However, if it was Kane for Malkin, you should be ecstatic bc that is larceny (yet again) by Rutherford. I will literally march to Bowman's front door if he trades Kane for Malkin.

- EnzoD

NO.
Malkin, besides being a homegrown talent, he really makes the 2C system in Pittsburgh work. That's always been Pittsburgh strength, having depth down the center (pens fans have seen it when either was injured) I don't see why Pittsburgh would jump on that trade (not to mention, in the rare exception Malkin was traded, it would be to get rid of salary, not add to cap hit)

Maybe we could grab geno and hope the cap goes up to 230 mil. Is Richards still available for 1 mil.? He's a cheaper option. I wouldn't ign ol soup bone for more than 1 mil either.

GO HOCKS FO!

Kaner cleaned up last night in Vegas, but he didn't look all that happy about it. Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but maybe he's been told he's being shopped and to keep him mouth shut. I dunno. Or maybe it's just with his family there and the hawks security he feels he's being caged up a bit.
- 6628

Good morning,

You know.....I thought the same thing about Kane. He looked miserable there last night, even on random shots he looked like he wanted to get the hell out of dodge. Glad he won the awards.

I was thinking about this whole Malkin thing as I saw the Kuc tweet and then the Boyle tweet. The Boyle tweet is VERY interesting seeing that he's a DIRECT employee of the Hawks, much like Myers, so for him to go out on a limb is a very brave play or else he'll end up like Josh Mora, wrongfully terminated for dare stepping outside the organizational parameters.

Tarasenko loves giving shout outs to Panarin. He also referred Panarin to the Blues and the Blues didn't pounce when they could have. The Hawks pursuing one of the best Russian players in the game very well could be a ploy to lock up Panarin long term to a team friendly deal. I don't know if the Blues could or would make a run at AP this coming summer, but the more I add up everything from quotes from the worlds in May to current day, I get the sense AP is keeping his options open and Malkin could be Bowman's key to locking him down.

You also save the Toews argument, assuming Kane isnt' dealt, as you reunite 19/88/81 and then have 71/72 and whomever.

See how this plays out, but I mentioned a few blogs ago about smoke and fire, and there is NO question there is some MAJOR legs to this rumor.....