The rational argument is that you ask him to waive his no movement clause. If he doesn't, you trade him before the trade deadline next March. If he refuses to move when asked, you buy him out.
- PensFan1962

Buying him out would be the ultimate failure in asset management. Fleury costs ~6 mil against the cap. The buy out penalty would be catastrophic. That's not a valid option. Basing your entire plan around asking Fleury politely to wave his NMC once expansion rolls around is far too risky.

Edit: speaking of backup goalies again...

Nobody liked my Kunitz for Elliott idea?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Whats wrong with keeping Zatkoff again, until Jarry is ready?

Zatkoff has been above average for a minimal cost backup.

worst case scenario for pens fans this offseason:

Murray gets traded
Fleury gets traded
Zatkoff is named starter
beau Bennett is injured
- DeflatedPucks

I'm glad you posted a nice little spreadsheet to show Malkin is better than Toews, but I wouldn't trade Toews for Malkin under ANY scenario. Malkin is really good when healthy, when motivated, when his city is nice, his pets are doing well and he isn't dreaming of red square but he has almost no percentage of the leadership Toews brings to the table. People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.

I'm glad you posted a nice little spreadsheet to show Malkin is better than Toews, but I wouldn't trade Toews for Malkin under ANY scenario. Malkin is really good when healthy, when motivated, when his city is nice, his pets are doing well and he isn't dreaming of red square but he has almost no percentage of the leadership Toews brings to the table. People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.
- kwolf68

You're right. Malkin didn't vocally lead this team at all this season. Never once did he call out the team publicly when needed and stepped up with big performances to back it up. You are right, sir.

Whats wrong with keeping Zatkoff again, until Jarry is ready?

Zatkoff has been above average for a minimal cost backup.
- Guile

Who knows, they just might sign him to a 1-year deal and if Fleury is traded, he's the expansion draft goalie.

I'm glad you posted a nice little spreadsheet to show Malkin is better than Toews, but I wouldn't trade Toews for Malkin under ANY scenario. Malkin is really good when healthy, when motivated, when his city is nice, his pets are doing well and he isn't dreaming of red square but he has almost no percentage of the leadership Toews brings to the table. People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.
- kwolf68

Once you start using leadership as a stat... you lose any credibility. Its not a stat, these are (frank)ing professional athletes. If being a cheerleader when off the ice is that needed for your team, YOUR TEAM IS A (frank)ING JOKE. Yes, I will say it, if the Blackhawks direly need a cheerleader aspect from a player, they shouldn't be playing.


Good thing people with brains in the sport don't count that as a stat.

I'm glad you posted a nice little spreadsheet to show Malkin is better than Toews, but I wouldn't trade Toews for Malkin under ANY scenario. Malkin is really good when healthy, when motivated, when his city is nice, his pets are doing well and he isn't dreaming of red square but he has almost no percentage of the leadership Toews brings to the table. People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.
- kwolf68

People who don't know the value of Malkin outside of raw stats just don't know....OH WAIT!

Who knows, they just might sign him to a 1-year deal and if Fleury is traded, he's the expansion draft goalie.
- NJPensfan

Hes not going to become a starter anywhere, not even as a split time. I think he will be more than happy to stay here, be the backup, collect more paychecks and possible hardware. Nothing wrong with being a career backup goalie.

Once you start using leadership as a stat... you lose any credibility. Its not a stat, these are (frank)ing professional athletes. If being a cheerleader when off the ice is that needed for your team, YOUR TEAM IS A (frank)ING JOKE. Yes, I will say it, if the Blackhawks direly need a cheerleader aspect from a player, they shouldn't be playing.


Good thing people with brains in the sport don't count that as a stat.
- Guile

Dustin Brown, Mike Richards, Brooks Laich, Craig Adams, and a whole host of other players disagree.

The angst on this board is unreal. I get people worrying about MAF/ Fleury situation, but god damn the season ended two weeks ago and we still don't know the parameters of expansion draft yet. Maybe we can wait for that and let GMJR do his job before everybody freaks out and turns on each other because they don't like somebody's trade proposal. I would like to think GMJR has earned that at least. We did win the cup and have bulk of team under contract for next season. We'll be fine.

Once you start using leadership as a stat... you lose any credibility. Its not a stat, these are (frank)ing professional athletes. If being a cheerleader when off the ice is that needed for your team, YOUR TEAM IS A (frank)ING JOKE. Yes, I will say it, if the Blackhawks direly need a cheerleader aspect from a player, they shouldn't be playing.


Good thing people with brains in the sport don't count that as a stat.
- Guile

Do you buy glue bulk in advance or on impulse when you're jonesing ?

People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.
- kwolf68

Pens fans been using that argument for Crosby too, only to have "He doesn't score enough to be great" thrown in their faces. How's it feel? So your saying it's not just about stats? Welcome to the club.

I'm glad you posted a nice little spreadsheet to show Malkin is better than Toews, but I wouldn't trade Toews for Malkin under ANY scenario. Malkin is really good when healthy, when motivated, when his city is nice, his pets are doing well and he isn't dreaming of red square but he has almost no percentage of the leadership Toews brings to the table. People who don't know the value of Toews outside of raw stats just don't know.
- kwolf68

I think the Crosby vs Toews comparison is always going to be there...and there will always be a debate about who is better. Leadership wise, given the way the season played out and the things Crosby has done in the last 12 months, I would say he and Toews are very close on the intangibles part of the list. Points wise, we all know there's really no contest.

Malkin...well...I love Geno...warts and all...but Toews leadership is well above what Geno has displayed to this point in his career. That's not really a knock on Geno, Toews is one of the best.

 



Any one who questions Toew's is an idiot. Yes both Crosby and Toews are the 2 best in hockey. By the way points is a good regular season stat playoffs is what counts. Look at some of the great leaders who sacrificed points for hard minutes and leading both on and off the ice by example.... Yzerman for one...
- francisryan


Ok, I'll mention one who sacrificed points for hard minutes and leading both on and off the ice by example, especially in these playoffs...Crosby

I still think Murray got ripped of for not winning the Playoff MVP..... Lets see who Team Canada plays on the ice when the game matters in the world cup...
- francisryan

Murray was very pedestrian in the finals. Your beef could be Kessel vs Crosby but I didn't think Murray deserved it at all. We held San Jose to 20 shots like 5 of 6 games. I think everyone is being nice I seen Sid do what Toews does but I'll never see Toews break 80 points. I don't think it's close personally

Dustin Brown, Mike Richards, Brooks Laich, Craig Adams, and a whole host of other players disagree.
- Victoro311

And that is why their contracts became terrible... when you lose the skills that made you a stud (not counting Adams... ughhhh) they start bringing up those intangible junk. Its a really simple pattern

I think the Crosby vs Toews comparison is always going to be there...and there will always be a debate about who is better. Leadership wise, given the way the season played out and the things Crosby has done in the last 12 months, I would say he and Toews are very close on the intangibles part of the list. Points wise, we all know there's really no contest.

Malkin...well...I love Geno...warts and all...but Toews leadership is well above what Geno has displayed to this point in his career. That's not really a knock on Geno, Toews is one of the best.
- icedog97

I don't find it very close at all. Lets see how much Toews leadership brings them now that they have to sacrifice depth like the pens of the past. Toews is a great player but it's not close.

Hes not going to become a starter anywhere, not even as a split time. I think he will be more than happy to stay here, be the backup, collect more paychecks and possible hardware. Nothing wrong with being a career backup goalie.
- Guile

Probably not, but you have to expose at least one goalie to the draft. No one says it has to be a great one.

Do you buy glue bulk in advance or on impulse when you're jonesing ?
- golfingsince

Good one? Not really... pretty stupid by you. Sorry I don't buy into the intangible group of when a hockey player becomes bad or is just overpaid. I don't make up reasons to justify the contract. They need to play better, or stop being labeled as hot poop.

Probably not, but you have to expose at least one goalie to the draft. No one says it has to be a great one.
- NJPensfan

Oh, right... the thought was not even close to in my head that he would be considered by Vegas

I don't find it very close at all. Lets see how much Toews leadership brings them now that they have to sacrifice depth like the pens of the past. Toews is a great player but it's not close.
- dbell646

The Toews leadership started because Bowman's a god who was able to ice some of the best teams in history around Toews and Kane while they were still relatively cheap, he never smiles, and if Hawks fans are to be believed, set the record for how many times the word "we" was used in a post championship speech.

Put Toews on the flawed Pens teams of the past six years and the leadership narrative never starts.

Murray was very pedestrian in the finals. Your beef could be Kessel vs Crosby but I didn't think Murray deserved it at all. We held San Jose to 20 shots like 5 of 6 games. I think everyone is being nice I seen Sid do what Toews does but I'll never see Toews break 80 points. I don't think it's close personally
- dbell646

I already showed him this:

http://www.tsn.ca/ballots...conn-smythe-vote-1.508739

Murray didn't get one first place vote. Of course the voters were all from Cole Harbour.

I already showed him this:

http://www.tsn.ca/ballots...conn-smythe-vote-1.508739

Murray didn't get one first place vote. Of course the voters were all from Cole Harbour.



- NJPensfan

Game 5 cost him the chance at the Smythe. Thought we were all okay with that and focused more on the Kessel snub?


side note... anyone else notice 1 person didn't put Crosby in the top 3?

Well, expansion's getting announced at 4pm today, so if it turns out all NMCs are autoportected, there is no longer a rational argument to keeping MAF.
- Victoro311

seconded.

I don't find it very close at all. Lets see how much Toews leadership brings them now that they have to sacrifice depth like the pens of the past. Toews is a great player but it's not close.
- dbell646

People are going to like "their guy". I get it. I don't hold it against a fan for loving their 3 time cup winning captain. On the surface, the offensive talent is not close. It's hard to give Toews an edge because of "leadership". Leadership doesn't mean squat if the puck isn't going in the net.

To your other point... Yes, the Hawks are finding out what it's like to construct a team with two really big contracts. We've been down this road.