Hopefully players like Kunitz and Duper waive their NMC. Though they wouldn't get picked the pens would be forced to protect them even though they might not get re-signed by the pens.
- Zac_O

They're off the books by expansion.

Hopefully players like Kunitz and Duper waive their NMC. Though they wouldn't get picked the pens would be forced to protect them even though they might not get re-signed by the pens.
- Zac_O

Both are pending UFAs, so it's irrelevant.

Hopefully players like Kunitz and Duper waive their NMC. Though they wouldn't get picked the pens would be forced to protect them even though they might not get re-signed by the pens.
- Zac_O

Their contracts will be up, won't even be an issue. Neither will be on the Pens roster come expansion time. I think the Pens will probably lose a guy like Sheary. Pens will have a decent amount of UFA the year the expansion draft come up.

Going to disagree on Hornqvist. Just because he has one year left doesn't mean the Pens have no intention on making him a Penguin for life.

Sprong will be exempt because he's having surgery to keep him out about seven months and you'd have to assume they will place him in WBS for his rehab.

I don't know if anyone can clarify this, but reading this sounds like outside of the players you "protect" you only have to expose two, so you don't necessarily need to protect Wilson, Rust or Sheary. You just need to expose two of Kuhnhackl, Fehr and Bennett. If they're smart they will play Bennett from time to time to make him eligible.
- Rinosaur

Sure, the Penguins might want to but I don't think it'd be smart. The way contracts normally go, Hornqvist will get a raise from his 4.2 mil for a good amount of term, and that won't be a good contract within about two years.

I guess I'm not really clear on your last paragraph either?

Well, there is a good thing Sprong is out for an extended period of time. If its 7-10 months, he won't start the season here. He will miss most of the season. At that point, he starts in the Q. At the end of the season, he needs to be shut down and not sent to the AHL. If this happens, I don't think we have to protect him for the expansion draft because he wouldn't have two years experience as a professional since the Q is still juniors.

Their contracts will be up, won't even be an issue. Neither will be on the Pens roster come expansion time. I think the Pens will probably lose a guy like Sheary. Pens will have a decent amount of UFA the year the expansion draft come up.
- Thorny

Right. If hypothetically we want to bring back Daley or Bonino (not advocating it just saying), we don't have to worry about protecting them.

Their contracts will be up, won't even be an issue. Neither will be on the Pens roster come expansion time. I think the Pens will probably lose a guy like Sheary. Pens will have a decent amount of UFA the year the expansion draft come up.
- Thorny

Kunitz will resign.

The bigger news here is the possibility of Tommy John surgery. If there is any truth to that being a possibility, the Pens would lose Malkin for an entire season.

While the HBK line would become the official 2nd line, the Pens would need to pick up a 3rd line center unless they believe that Fehr can step in.

This would drastically alter the Pens' game-plan.
- Rinosaur

You are MASSIVELY behind on that news, and wrong... its 5-7 months for a hockey player recovering from TJ.

Pretty sure I never used the word bust at any time. Wouldn't that just be awesome if it took Murray 3-5 years to duplicate his play from this year like it took Mason, that would be perfect timing for Pittsburgh, gets back just at the end of Sid, Geno and Letang's careers.
- jaydogg1974

I gave you a long list of busts at number six overall. That is more indicative on why you don't make this dumb deal. Your points aren't that valid, because three of them are still solid goalies in this league.

Wouldn't it be just awesome if MAF takes another shot to the head early next year after trading our starter for the sixth pick ... Fleury misses a lot of games and is closer to retirement and the sixth overall pick busts, just like the names I floated. Then, you have two big time fails.

I don't see Murray tailing off too much. Anyone who saw the play-offs knows that our style won't change. It did a great job limiting scoring chances by the opponent. He was a calm, cool and collected 21 or 22 year old kid depending on the game that didn't get fazed by letting in soft goals and he rebounded beautifully after subpar performances. Those are qualities MAF doesn't have this time of year.

You are MASSIVELY behind on that news, and wrong... its 5-7 months for a hockey player recovering from TJ.
- Guile

Has there been a recent hockey player that needed TJ surgery? I can't recall. Doesn't seem like the type of thing that happens in hockey. Well, if this is the case, I guess this quashes all trade rumors.

They're off the books by expansion.
- Victoro311

The draft is June 21st so no they arnt. The wont be free agents till July 1 of 2017. Duper doesnt need to be protected since he is injured but Kuni will still technically be on the team and have a NMC. So unless I missed something in the rules about pending ufas he will need to be protected. But in the rules it even says Vegas will need to draft 20 player under contract in the 16-17 season. So it is an option to draft those who are pending ufas. Again I could be wrong but I dont see anything in the rules about it.

They also had to trade saad last year. Say what you want about Toews "leadership", but Sid opted to not take more money back in 2012 in order to keep malkin and other parts of the team together at the time. If Toews and Kane didn't get so greedy and ask for the moon, the team would have saad and/or teravainen still
- drummer829

Good point. Crosby could have taken a bundle more, but put the organization first. Love him or hate him, Tom Brady has done the same with the Patriots. Toews and Kane were thinking of themselves first and it cost them Saad, Terravainen and maybe Crawford.

Has there been a recent hockey player that needed TJ surgery? I can't recall. Doesn't seem like the type of thing that happens in hockey. Well, if this is the case, I guess this quashes all trade rumors.
- Oneonta Penguin

Considering that time line was released by Pittsburgh media before he even took the MRI, I'll go with they didn't pull it out of their asses.

The draft is June 21st so no they arnt. The wont be free agents till July 1 of 2017. Duper doesnt need to be protected since he is injured but Kuni will still technically be on the team and have a NMC. So unless I missed something in the rules about pending ufas he will need to be protected. But in the rules it even says Vegas will need to draft 20 player under contract in the 16-17 season. So it is an option to draft those who are pending ufas. Again I could be wrong but I dont see anything in the rules about it.
- Zac_O

Yea I think they'll have to address that. I'm sure it will impact a lot of teams

Good point. Crosby could have taken a bundle more, but put the organization first. Love him or hate him, Tom Brady has done the same with the Patriots. Toews and Kane were thinking of themselves first and it cost them Saad, Terravainen and maybe Crawford.
- Oneonta Penguin

I remember when he took a pay cut...and then the patriots went and promptly got rid of his best friend.

bill belichick justice.

Something I'm not clear on:

When it says two years of professional experience, entering their third year in 2017-2018 are exempt, or are players that completed their second year in 2016-2017 vulnerable to be picked in the draft? Not having to worry about Sprong, Sundqvist, and Simon would be incredible.
- Victoro311

Everywhere I've seen, it's basically guys who turned pro before this past year. So Sprong, Sundqvist, Simon, Jarry, etc are all protected. General Fanger also has Sheary as an automatic protect (only had an AHL deal before this one), but I think they might be wrong.

Big question for me is still the NMC and MAF. I'd like to have the option to keep him, but it's too risky to wait until after the season. He could potentially force them to trade Murray instead if he uses his LNTC.

You are MASSIVELY behind on that news, and wrong... its 5-7 months for a hockey player recovering from TJ.
- Guile

This is unfamiliar territory for me, so I'm fine if I was misinformed. I'm not a doctor or a medical expert.

You like telling people they're wrong, don't you? I feel like there were numerous other ways you could have corrected me.

The draft is June 21st so no they arnt. The wont be free agents till July 1 of 2017. Duper doesnt need to be protected since he is injured but Kuni will still technically be on the team and have a NMC. So unless I missed something in the rules about pending ufas he will need to be protected. But in the rules it even says Vegas will need to draft 20 player under contract in the 16-17 season. So it is an option to draft those who are pending ufas. Again I could be wrong but I dont see anything in the rules about it.
- Zac_O

Huh. Didn't think about this... That means Dales is also under contract who I think may also have a NMC. This will be address at some point I'd have to imagine. Would be pretty lame if teams had to autoprotect pending UFAs. No guarantee they'll be back and Vegas won't take them anyways.

Why would a limited NMC be treated the same as a full one? If Fleury has Vegas as one of the teams he refuses to be moved to then and only then should he be auto protected. If not treat the clause like it is and let him list the teams no wont be moved to and if Vegas isnt on it its up to the pens on if they protect him. They are giving way more power to the players here than they already had.

Why is it a dumb idea? Fleury will get, what, a 2nd rounder and $5mi off the books. Does that help us next year? Maybe, we could use the 5mil somewhere I guess (3ish for a backup goalie/Reimer)...

We do have a pretty deep roster with almost everybody returning (+Wilson, Sundquist maybe). Fleury still has at least 2-3 good years in him as well: people talk as though he sucks now, but his last 2 years have been among his best and low 30's in age isn't generally a bad time for goalies. Cap space isn't an issue for PIT unless they want to sign another high priced player, but they really don't have a need to do that.

Dealing Murray, who at the end of the day isn't proven, but obviously has a lot of potential could land a D or F that could be a cornerstone for the next 10+ years. I'd say there is a very strong argument about top 1-2 D or top 3 F being much harder to acquire than top 10-12 goalies. So, if CGY is offering what is being rumored, and maybe GMJR can squeeze another piece out of them, then what's the actual cost to the team? PIT won't be hurt in net, Fleury is still good. We have Jarry in the minors who is 2-3 years away and also has a lot of potential. PIT acquires a young player who doesn't have to be exposed in expansion draft and costs them quite a bit less (important as F/D salary is higher than G salary and would help in long-term planning since the top 4 guys will be nearing end of their contracts/retiring just as a big contract for new guy would be needed...Murray will want 4-5 at least next year...so he, vs Fleury, doesn't really solve any long-term cap problems, only for this year will it be noticeable).

Bottom line, is that your options are:
1. Keep both and figure it out later
2. Stick with Fleury who should be solid for 2-3 more years, don't bother signing any bigish name FAs and trade Murray for #6+.
3. Stick with Murray who could flop and put a cup contending team out of contention and needing a starting goalie next year. IF Murray even plays OK...say top 10 next year, his value still wouldn't warrant what is being rumored now from CGY. Saved cap space will mostly go to getting a decent backup like Reimer.


Personally, trading Murray now is a much wiser business decision, and also a better hockey move. Trading Fleury is very short sighted and actually doesn't contribute anything of relevance to the team.
- mventres

It's a dumb idea for the same reasons I have been talking about.

1. It's not just a second round pick we get in return for Fleury (if that is the return). On top of that, its the 5.1 million in savings we can go out shopping and get a top six winger. Not a hard concept to follow. So, its MAF for a second and top six forward. That in essence would be the deal.

2. It's short sighted saying MAF is the smarter move to keep. He is 31, not 22. He has two concussions in two months. He couldn't get the pipes back once healed because the 22 year old wasn't going to give it back. When MAF did get his chance, he sucked.

3. Murray is well beyond his years. He has a lot of things in his arsenal that MAF doesn't. His ability to rebound from a soft goal, or subpar performance. He closed the door down after surrendering a soft goal, or bounced back beautifully the next game. He is making 600K and then becomes a RFA, which when he signs, it would be less than what MAF makes now. That is a win. Staying older is a dumb move when you have a quality younger option that has shown ability to hold down the fort. We need an influx of youth. Keeping MAF doesn't do that.

4. I think most level headed people see the great benefits of keeping Murray over Fleury. You are in the minority here. Even some of the biggest MAF fans have said its time to move him.

In the end, if our GM decides Fleury should stay over Murray, he just made a simply ignorant move for the organization moving forward. That isn't just an opinion. It's a simple fact than many people have posted.

You can't hold onto him and have both be goalies this year. How did Vancouver do with the Luongo v. Schneider thing? Not so well. Well, that would be the sequel to that if both are here. By the way, neither of those goalies are in Vancouver right now.

Trading a franchise young controllable goalie for the 6th overall pick is a dumb move. No more explanation is needed.

Huh. Didn't think about this... That means Dales is also under contract who I think may also have a NMC. This will be address at some point I'd have to imagine. Would be pretty lame if teams had to autoprotect pending UFAs. No guarantee they'll be back and Vegas won't take them anyways.
- Victoro311

Yea I'm sure that's been brought up

Everywhere I've seen, it's basically guys who turned pro before this past year. So Sprong, Sundqvist, Simon, Jarry, etc are all protected. General Fanger also has Sheary as an automatic protect (only had an AHL deal before this one), but I think they might be wrong.

Big question for me is still the NMC and MAF. I'd like to have the option to keep him, but it's too risky to wait until after the season. He could potentially force them to trade Murray instead if he uses his LNTC.
- Tojo.

Sprong would be exposed if he was called up to us, or played in the AHL. His injury will help us from not having to protect him provided he plays in the Q and is shut down after the season.

This is unfamiliar territory for me, so I'm fine if I was misinformed. I'm not a doctor or a medical expert.

You like telling people they're wrong, don't you? I feel like there were numerous other ways you could have corrected me.
- Rinosaur

if he comes back after 5 months he will come back not healed. to get back fully healed enough to PLAY professionally it takes like 9 months. one thing is for sure malkin won't be the same as he was before after a tj surgery

This is unfamiliar territory for me, so I'm fine if I was misinformed. I'm not a doctor or a medical expert.

You like telling people they're wrong, don't you? I feel like there were numerous other ways you could have corrected me.
- Rinosaur

Not when there has been over 50 posts on this topic in the last 3 days.

if he comes back after 5 months he will come back not healed. to get back fully healed enough to PLAY professionally it takes like 9 months. one thing is for sure malkin won't be the same as he was before after a tj surgery
- martox

I will gladly give him two extra months so he doesn't come back hurt, again... for about the 5th time in 6 years