We have to trade Flower before we even talk about Boedker or Okposo.
- Oneonta Penguin

Why do you have to trade him first? They're allowed to go 10% over the cap in the off season so there's plenty of space available to sign anyone they want and then make moves after the fact if necessary, teams do it every year.

I didn't answer your question because the answer was obvious, I'm not surprised though that you completely missed the connection in my question. To help you out since you didn't get it right, the thing they had in common was that they were all goalies that had great starts to their careers but failed to duplicate the success they had early on, the point was to show that there's no guarantees regardless of how good a player looks in his 1st 30-40 games.
- jaydogg1974

Oh, I know where you were going, but all of the guys you mentioned aren't complete busts champ. I suggest you look at the last two years of Mason in Philly. Save percentage is better than that banner opening year in Columbus. He was just as good for Philly this year then what he was in Columbus if you look at things. Niemi's best year was in SJ in 2012-13, not that first full season in Chicago, so he isn't a one hit wonder either. Numbers wise, Cam Ward is better now than what he was earlier. Look at the numbers. You failed on three of your examples - pretty badly.

Why do you have to trade him first? They're allowed to go 10% over the cap in the off season so there's plenty of space available to sign anyone they want and then make moves after the fact if necessary, teams do it every year.
- jaydogg1974

Because if you can't trade him later ... you have a problem. There are more limitations trading goalies than forwards or defensemen. Not rocket science here. That could very well be the problem with this is MAF is kept. Dumb move by Pittsburgh if they don't and decide to go over the cap 10%. No one will do us any favors.

Ok, where to start with this one.. Yes, 10.5 a year for Toews hurts, is his point production worth that much? no, not worth anything over 8 IMO, and in turn its costing us players like Shaw to cap casualties. Which sucks. Do Blackhawks fans wish he was paid less? Yes. But here's the deal, amidst your ignorance, and incessant trolling. He is our captain. The captain of the THREE time cup winning Blackhawks since his captaincy. Post your fancy stats comparing him to Malkin (LOL), poop on his point totals, yes he pales in comparison to Crosby in scoring, fact of the matter is Toews has turned around the Blackhawks organization that was irrelevant for so long. He is the face of the franchise. When its time for that kind of player to get paid, you pay up. He is a better and more accomplished captain and leader than Crosby, hence why Crosby asked him if it was OK if he wore the 'C' for Canada in the last olympics. (google it if you didn't know)

Did Toews get paid too much? sure. Is he a franchise player? yes. Is he a better player than Malkin? Yes. Do you think that one SINGLE NHL GM, if building a team and given the option of either Toews or Malkin would choose Malkin? No. Unfortunately you pay up for a guy who brings what Toews does to an organization, even if it is quite a bit high.
- Trammelt

Its cute you think Towes is better than Malkin... keep clutching to that when you fail to get to a conference final for the rest of his tenure there.

Why do you have to trade him first? They're allowed to go 10% over the cap in the off season so there's plenty of space available to sign anyone they want and then make moves after the fact if necessary, teams do it every year.
- jaydogg1974

Right now fleury doesn't have to be traded. They could keep him and eventually trade him sometime in the season. If they spend big money on okposo or Boedker, then teams know the pens absolutely have to trade fleury before October and I'd expect he brings back almost nothing.

Its cute you think Towes is better than Malkin... keep clutching to that when you fail to get to a conference final for the rest of his tenure there.
- Guile

I'm also sure it was Toews who single handedly won 3 cups. Kane, Hossa, Keith, and their depth had nothing to do with it.

I'm also sure it was Toews who single handedly won 3 cups. Kane, Hossa, Keith, and their depth had nothing to do with it.
- drummer829

They had a great team, they built it, drafted it, and won with it... and now they are overpaying to keep it together. Its like winning 3 Cups in a short time span has become a bad thing in their minds. Take a damn decade or so off and enjoy being above over half of the NHL.

They had a great team, they built it, drafted it, and won with it... and now they are overpaying to keep it together. Its like winning 3 Cups in a short time span has become a bad thing in their minds. Take a damn decade or so off and enjoy being above over half of the NHL.
- Guile

I shook my head like many when Chicago was dumb enough to do that for Kane and Toews. Thought they would be in serious cap hell and now, they are. The had to trade a young winger in terravainen just to unload Bickell. Now, rumors are out there they they are seriously considering trading Crawford. This is what happens when you make foolish decisions.

I shook my head like many when Chicago was dumb enough to do that for Kane and Toews. Thought they would be in serious cap hell and now, they are. The had to trade a young winger in terravainen just to unload Bickell. Now, rumors are out there they they are seriously considering trading Crawford. This is what happens when you make foolish decisions.
- Oneonta Penguin

chicago got very lucky with the hossa/keith contracts getting squared up before those things were frowned upon. that permitted them to have SO much flexibility with franchise guys.

however, im willing to give them credit. theyve been good at realizing who is part of the core and who isnt. there are a lot of variables at play with superstars. yeah its easy to say thats too much but reality is those guys are going to get paid. the backlash of letting one of those stars leave would have been tremendous. i wouldnt necessarily call them dumb in my opinion, because someone else would have gladly paid either of them that. granted, you can tell me that just because someone else will do it doesnt make it smart per se, but...

now theyre paying full freight and are having trouble. its what happens in a cap league. its hard to have regrets sitting on 3 cups and 2 superstars that will continually line owners pockets.

"Evgeni Malkin is better than Jonathan Toews, too. "

The Tanner school of posting charts as proof of player evaluations is quite comical.

I mean, really all the charts do is reinforce the other statistics that prove Geno is better than Captain Overrated. You know, like points, goals, or assists? The stats that win games? I don't see on what planet Toews is a better player than Malkin. He is a great player, but he is sooooo over rated.

I shook my head like many when Chicago was dumb enough to do that for Kane and Toews. Thought they would be in serious cap hell and now, they are. The had to trade a young winger in terravainen just to unload Bickell. Now, rumors are out there they they are seriously considering trading Crawford. This is what happens when you make foolish decisions.
- Oneonta Penguin

We did it to an extent too... They just went overboard. We are now recovered from the veteran presence BS

Did we sign Stamkos yet?

Did we sign Stamkos yet?
- IronCity

Right after we trade Malkin to Tampa for Druoin++.

Gents,
Enjoy while it lasts, stats should also show who played more hockey the last 5 years... Come on NHL season...
- francisryan

Sure helps when you're team roster is better.

Ok, where to start with this one.. Yes, 10.5 a year for Toews hurts, is his point production worth that much? no, not worth anything over 8 IMO, and in turn its costing us players like Shaw to cap casualties. Which sucks. Do Blackhawks fans wish he was paid less? Yes. But here's the deal, amidst your ignorance, and incessant trolling. He is our captain. The captain of the THREE time cup winning Blackhawks since his captaincy. Post your fancy stats comparing him to Malkin (LOL), poop on his point totals, yes he pales in comparison to Crosby in scoring, fact of the matter is Toews has turned around the Blackhawks organization that was irrelevant for so long. He is the face of the franchise. When its time for that kind of player to get paid, you pay up. He is a better and more accomplished captain and leader than Crosby, hence why Crosby asked him if it was OK if he wore the 'C' for Canada in the last olympics. (google it if you didn't know)

Did Toews get paid too much? sure. Is he a franchise player? yes. Is he a better player than Malkin? Yes. Do you think that one SINGLE NHL GM, if building a team and given the option of either Toews or Malkin would choose Malkin? No. Unfortunately you pay up for a guy who brings what Toews does to an organization, even if it is quite a bit high.
- Trammelt

Where was Toews leadership when Kane was out raping women?

Where was Toews leadership when Kane was out raping women?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Not cool dude... lots of other things to mock them for

Where was Toews leadership when Kane was out raping women?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

And even considering that deal, if true, is retarded for the reasons I stated. Don't give me your already set in your biased opinion, because I've seen your posts.

It's a dumb idea for Pittsburgh to consider.
- Oneonta Penguin

Why is it a dumb idea? Fleury will get, what, a 2nd rounder and $5mi off the books. Does that help us next year? Maybe, we could use the 5mil somewhere I guess (3ish for a backup goalie/Reimer)...

We do have a pretty deep roster with almost everybody returning (+Wilson, Sundquist maybe). Fleury still has at least 2-3 good years in him as well: people talk as though he sucks now, but his last 2 years have been among his best and low 30's in age isn't generally a bad time for goalies. Cap space isn't an issue for PIT unless they want to sign another high priced player, but they really don't have a need to do that.

Dealing Murray, who at the end of the day isn't proven, but obviously has a lot of potential could land a D or F that could be a cornerstone for the next 10+ years. I'd say there is a very strong argument about top 1-2 D or top 3 F being much harder to acquire than top 10-12 goalies. So, if CGY is offering what is being rumored, and maybe GMJR can squeeze another piece out of them, then what's the actual cost to the team? PIT won't be hurt in net, Fleury is still good. We have Jarry in the minors who is 2-3 years away and also has a lot of potential. PIT acquires a young player who doesn't have to be exposed in expansion draft and costs them quite a bit less (important as F/D salary is higher than G salary and would help in long-term planning since the top 4 guys will be nearing end of their contracts/retiring just as a big contract for new guy would be needed...Murray will want 4-5 at least next year...so he, vs Fleury, doesn't really solve any long-term cap problems, only for this year will it be noticeable).

Bottom line, is that your options are:
1. Keep both and figure it out later
2. Stick with Fleury who should be solid for 2-3 more years, don't bother signing any bigish name FAs and trade Murray for #6+.
3. Stick with Murray who could flop and put a cup contending team out of contention and needing a starting goalie next year. IF Murray even plays OK...say top 10 next year, his value still wouldn't warrant what is being rumored now from CGY. Saved cap space will mostly go to getting a decent backup like Reimer.


Personally, trading Murray now is a much wiser business decision, and also a better hockey move. Trading Fleury is very short sighted and actually doesn't contribute anything of relevance to the team.

Ok, where to start with this one.. Yes, 10.5 a year for Toews hurts, is his point production worth that much? no, not worth anything over 8 IMO, and in turn its costing us players like Shaw to cap casualties. Which sucks. Do Blackhawks fans wish he was paid less? Yes. But here's the deal, amidst your ignorance, and incessant trolling. He is our captain. The captain of the THREE time cup winning Blackhawks since his captaincy. Post your fancy stats comparing him to Malkin (LOL), poop on his point totals, yes he pales in comparison to Crosby in scoring, fact of the matter is Toews has turned around the Blackhawks organization that was irrelevant for so long. He is the face of the franchise. When its time for that kind of player to get paid, you pay up. He is a better and more accomplished captain and leader than Crosby, hence why Crosby asked him if it was OK if he wore the 'C' for Canada in the last olympics. (google it if you didn't know)

Did Toews get paid too much? sure. Is he a franchise player? yes. Is he a better player than Malkin? Yes. Do you think that one SINGLE NHL GM, if building a team and given the option of either Toews or Malkin would choose Malkin? No. Unfortunately you pay up for a guy who brings what Toews does to an organization, even if it is quite a bit high.
- Trammelt

No.. that would be the GM of the Blackhawks that turned that team around. And the whole leadership bullpoop is such a stupid, lazy narrative. Measuring "intangibles" is a joke, probably the biggest joke in sports. Toews is good, but he's not better than Malkin. End of story. Captain Overrated.

So... here is a real discussion...

Malkin, or Tavares?

So... here is a real discussion...

Malkin, or Tavares?
- Guile

at their peak? malkin.

moving forward, Tavares.

at their peak? malkin.

moving forward, Tavares.
- stayinthefnnet

For this discussion since we are in trade rumor time... Moving forward.

Only a few players in the NHL can completely take over a game, we have two of them, Tavares is absolutely another one.

There's a rep from Quebec City at the presser.

Dion (Quebecor) presence is intriguing: https://t.co/XpeqU9Ms5q

— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) June 22, 2016

For this discussion since we are in trade rumor time... Moving forward.

Only a few players in the NHL can completely take over a game, we have two of them, Tavares is absolutely another one.
- Guile

Tavares is so underrated. He's such a beast.

Ok, where to start with this one.. Yes, 10.5 a year for Toews hurts, is his point production worth that much? no, not worth anything over 8 IMO, and in turn its costing us players like Shaw to cap casualties. Which sucks. Do Blackhawks fans wish he was paid less? Yes. But here's the deal, amidst your ignorance, and incessant trolling. He is our captain. The captain of the THREE time cup winning Blackhawks since his captaincy. Post your fancy stats comparing him to Malkin (LOL), poop on his point totals, yes he pales in comparison to Crosby in scoring, fact of the matter is Toews has turned around the Blackhawks organization that was irrelevant for so long. He is the face of the franchise. When its time for that kind of player to get paid, you pay up. He is a better and more accomplished captain and leader than Crosby, hence why Crosby asked him if it was OK if he wore the 'C' for Canada in the last olympics. (google it if you didn't know)

Did Toews get paid too much? sure. Is he a franchise player? yes. Is he a better player than Malkin? Yes. Do you think that one SINGLE NHL GM, if building a team and given the option of either Toews or Malkin would choose Malkin? No. Unfortunately you pay up for a guy who brings what Toews does to an organization, even if it is quite a bit high.
- Trammelt

oh lawwwwwwwd, I just can't