I liked Spezza and I think he was the most skilled forward ever to play for Ottawa (Alfie missed on the equal skill but was a more valuable talent because of his will to win, his intensity and leadership skills).

I supported trading Spezza because it was time to move forward. The team got old and Spezza was older than his age hobbled by chronic back pain. I was okay for him to stay another year. What I feared most of all was Ottawa resigning Spezza to a $7.5m retirement contract. Soft rumour on the edges today is that Spezza is available for a minor cost. Not an option for the Sens.
- spatso

He's gone now and people want a centre capable of 70 points.

Biggest mistake was giving him the C. He wasn't captain material. He's a strong, skilled player that can help a team generate points when needed. He's in a great spot in Dallas with a GM who knows how to build a contender. Won't be long before they win. They just have to get their goaltending sorted out.

As the joke is on Toronto with Kessel, soon the joke will be on Ottawa with Spezza.

He's gone now and people want a centre capable of 70 points.

Biggest mistake was giving him the C. He wasn't captain material. He's a strong, skilled player that can help a team generate points when needed. He's in a great spot in Dallas with a GM who knows how to build a contender. Won't be long before they win. They just have to get their goaltending sorted out.

As the joke is on Toronto with Kessel, soon the joke will be on Ottawa with Spezza.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

my problem with spezza was never his "defensive shortcomings".....i was very seriously concerned with his health, the fact that he was on the wrong side of 30 with those health concerns, and the fact that he almost surely would have wanted a long term big money contract despite those issues. his on ice game was never the issue for me.

i also agree that giving him the C was a mistake. everyone knew this was always going to be Karlsson's team, spezza was always going to be a stop gap even if he wasn't traded. they should have given it to EK as soon as Alfi left.

Word is that Lucic will become a UFA..... Ottawa needs to make a play for him!

my problem with spezza was never his "defensive shortcomings".....i was very seriously concerned with his health, the fact that he was on the wrong side of 30 with those health concerns, and the fact that he almost surely would have wanted a long term big money contract despite those issues. his on ice game was never the issue for me.

i also agree that giving him the C was a mistake. everyone knew this was always going to be Karlsson's team, spezza was always going to be a stop gap even if he wasn't traded. they should have given it to EK as soon as Alfi left.
- sensarmy_11

But he didn't get a long contract with Dallas....

I get the health concerns, but that can happen with any player at the drop of a hat. Turris and Mac just coming off long term injuries. Who would have thought that a year ago? Alfie had injury problems early in his career...

Agreed on the captaincy stuff. Made little sense to give it to him with Karlsson evolving.

It was a short sighted move that put us back a couple of years. It was a move fans, media, and management instigated, followed by a convenient trade request.

But he didn't get a long contract with Dallas....

I get the health concerns, but that can happen with any player at the drop of a hat. Turris and Mac just coming off long term injuries. Who would have thought that a year ago? Alfie had injury problems early in his career...

Agreed on the captaincy stuff. Made little sense to give it to him with Karlsson evolving.

It was a short sighted move that put us back a couple of years. It was a move fans, media, and management instigated, followed by a convenient trade request.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i know, but i believe that he would have demanded and expected it from ottawa....just based on the fact that he'd been here for 10 years

Word is that Lucic will become a UFA..... Ottawa needs to make a play for him!
- SensnRBs

he's not worth the money he's going to get (prob 5-6 mil atleast with some term). i've never liked lucic....yes he puts up points but he's a (frank)ing loose cannon on the ice....i find he hurts his team as much as he helps

Word is that Lucic will become a UFA..... Ottawa needs to make a play for him!
- SensnRBs

Yes, please pay him $7.5 x 7!!

based on what? his +/-?

doughty won the award because the media felt that he "should have won one before".....in other years you could justify that doughty deserved it more than karlsson....but not this year.

furhter to that, karlsson wasn't just about points.

he had more blocked shots than doughty, fewer giveaways, WAAAYYY more takeaways. he had fewer hits, but still pushing 100 which is pretty impressive considering you're claiming all he does is produce points.
- sensarmy_11

Now talk to me about the advanced stats.

Now talk to me about the advanced stats.
- As_I_See_It

you mean the fact that doughty played on the best possession team in the entire league.......that probably had no impact what so ever. 3 of the top 4 possession d-man and 5 of the top 6 possession forwards (plus their 6th top six forward was number 10).

put doughty in ottawa or toronto......how do you think his corsi would look?

I feel really bad for Karlsson...

you mean the fact that doughty played on the best possession team in the entire league.......that probably had no impact what so ever. 3 of the top 4 possession d-man and 5 of the top 6 possession forwards (plus their 6th top six forward was number 10).

put doughty in ottawa or toronto......how do you think his corsi would look?
- sensarmy_11

Really? That's you're argument against Doughty?

I feel really bad for Karlsson...


- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Yeah, it clearly is just a sad, sad story all the way around.

Yes, please pay him $7.5 x 7!!
- As_I_See_It

Naw, hes no David Clarkson....
Nathan Horton? Maybe.

Really? That's you're argument against Doughty?
- As_I_See_It

i still haven't heard your argument for him.....other than +/- and corsi, which have more to do with the team he plays for than anything else.

I feel really bad for Karlsson...


- Gord_Wilson_2.0

poor guy

#prayforkarlsson

i still haven't heard your argument for him.....other than +/- and corsi, which have more to do with the team he plays for than anything else.
- sensarmy_11

Meh. Doughty is a deserving winner. I felt he should have won last year and Karlsson this year. The two will likely be trading the trophy several more times over the course of their careers.

Both great D-men. From an unbiased point of view, I don't know which one I'd rather have.

Meh. Doughty is a deserving winner. I felt he should have won last year and Karlsson this year. The two will likely be trading the trophy several more times over the course of their careers.

Both great D-men. From an unbiased point of view, I don't know which one I'd rather have.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

could make a solid arguement for either

could make a solid arguement for either
- Aetherial

I'll always remember Doughty at the 2010 Olympics. The guy was a kid, but so poised out there with the puck.

Meh. Doughty is a deserving winner. I felt he should have won last year and Karlsson this year. The two will likely be trading the trophy several more times over the course of their careers.

Both great D-men. From an unbiased point of view, I don't know which one I'd rather have.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

agree to disagree i guess..........IMO, i don't think he deserved it this year, i definitely don't think he deserved it last year. In point of fact, i honestly can't think of a year when he should have won it and didn't.

his consistency is outstanding, i'd probably put him in my top 3-4 every year (not many guys who i'd say that about......even karlsson who has had a couple of years where i wouldn't put him there) but i don't think he's been the best d-man in the leauge any year.............that being said, he won it so i guess several others don't share my opinion.

that being said, i'd much rather see doughty win it than weber.....who i personally feel is ridiculously overrated

agree to disagree i guess..........IMO, i don't think he deserved it this year, i definitely don't think he deserved it last year. In point of fact, i honestly can't think of a year when he should have won it and didn't.

his consistency is outstanding, i'd probably put him in my top 3-4 every year (not many guys who i'd say that about......even karlsson who has had a couple of years where i wouldn't put him there) but i don't think he's been the best d-man in the leauge any year.............that being said, he won it so i guess several others don't share my opinion.

that being said, i'd much rather see doughty win it than weber.....who i personally feel is ridiculously overrated
- sensarmy_11

My bigger issue is that apparently a voter didn't put Karlsson in his top 10 or something which cost him votes? Not sure how accurate that is, but odd to hear. Regardless of who won, the 3 nominees should have been on everyones top 10 list.

My bigger issue is that apparently a voter didn't put Karlsson in his top 10 or something which cost him votes? Not sure how accurate that is, but odd to hear. Regardless of who won, the 3 nominees should have been on everyones top 10 list.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

m'eh, some people are dumb.

and let's be honest, they should have been in everyone's top 5

m'eh, some people are dumb.

and let's be honest, they should have been in everyone's top 5
- sensarmy_11

It's been done.

Time to move onto the draft and rant and rave about whoever we pick at 12 (assuming we keep the pick).

My bigger issue is that apparently a voter didn't put Karlsson in his top 10 or something which cost him votes? Not sure how accurate that is, but odd to hear. Regardless of who won, the 3 nominees should have been on everyones top 10 list.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

19 voters had him outside of the top 3 another 4 had him outside of the top 5.

Even if all of those were 1st place votes it is unlikely Karlsson would have won. If you took the 4th 5th and outside and made them 1st he would have has 1250 points. Doughty had 1254. I suppose it is likely he would have gone down some as many of those 23 probably had Doughty 1st, but it is what it is.

I think having Karlsson outside of the top 3 is a bit of a disgrace as a hockey writer, but I'd say the same of those that voted Doughty outside of the top 3...Francois Beauchemin got voted. THAT is just wrong headed.

It's comments like this that make me embarrassed to be a Sens fan. All it takes is effort and character to get respect I guess. Sens fan must have the film Rudy playing on continuous loop.

There is something to be had with actual skill. It helps wins you championships. Not every guy exemplifies "effort and character" that you are going on about. Not to say you don't need those guys. You do, of course. You need a good mix. You do a good job of trying to group players that have played here, but you ignore one thing. None of them have won squat in Ottawa. The ones that have one, were in situations where there was the right mix of players to win.

Phil Kessel is a prime example from this years playoffs. Not necessarily a heart and soul guy that teams love (i.e. Sidney Crosby), but he has exceptional skill that assisted in winning the Stanley Cup.

To out these kinds of player is ridiculous. They are just as needed as an Alfie type player.

Not even worth replaying regarding "trade offers". Guess the no trade clause some players had has some people confused.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Whatever... none of that refutes a single point that I made. Why you would attempt to correlate being popular and respected by fans with the team winning a Cup is beyond me, given that most players won't get that opportunity for years at a time. Kessel may have won a Cup when his ice time was sheltered on a team that just happened to include the best player in the world, but he's still widely criticized and disliked and may very well not even be included on the World Cup roster. Does that mean Toronto was wrong to trade him when they're potentially years away from a significant playoff run? Not sure I can agree.

That said, of course you need a balance of players to win a championship - that doesn't mean that as a fan you can't be critical of lazy effort, or have respect for someone who plays their heart out every night. Maybe in your books points are points and skill is skill, but not everyone would agree with you. Some people even have the audacity to expect more of naturally talented players because of the advantages they're blessed with. That's precisely why I disagreed with your point that just because Spezza was maligned that Karlsson will necessarily be as well. Apparently that's an embarrassing perspective to have.

As for trade value, do you really attribute the lack of quality trade offers for Spezza to his NTC? That doesn't really explain why the Canucks were able to get substantially more in trade for Kesler in spite of a NTC during the exact same off-season. Unfortunately, what an NHL GM will actually give up in trade for a player is a powerful indication of their perceived value. With Spezza, I get the sense that many NHL GM's saw a talented but potentially very expensive now-2nd line centre with defensive limitations and injury concerns whose best years were behind him. I was disappointed with the return they got for Spezza, but personally I'm not surprised that GM's were reluctant to put forward more significant offers.