A top ten pick for ANY goalie is too high in my opinion. There's too many variables to think about with goaltenders and a stud goalie one year may be a total bust the next. Consistency isn't there with goaltending as much as it is with scorers and defense-minded players. Fleury is fantastic, but the price is too high when other goalies who would post nearly identical numbers to him are available for free.

So they're going to clear out cap space and then not use it?!?
- hardnosed

Not what he was saying dude... read the post he quoted.. my post btw.


I was saying this offseason is being very stressful, when only 1 move is a factor, Flowers. Yes, we will do something with his cap space, but is that going to be anywhere close to as stressful as it is right now?

Nah... I'd say a healthy Flower could have won us this Cup as well in all honesty. The team was that strong around the goalies.
- Guile

Possible. But to be honest, the Pens level of play in the playoffs came out of nowhere. Does that even happen with MAF in net the whole time if he was never injured?

Might grab a cheap depth player for around 1 mil.


Or if Malkin is going to be out near half the season, we could grab a ~3mil player... his LTIR for 1/3-1/2 the season is a nice chunk of money to play with.
- Guile

If we deal Fleury and don't take any salary back we will be players in free agency. Rutherford is a deal maker. He's not going to move $5.75 in salary and not try to sign a name. Could (frank) us when we need to sign a bunch of guys next year, but he's going all in for the cup again. If we have $10 million in salary cap space (which we would if we trade Fleury and Malkin is LTIR) you better believe he's making another splash.

What is his current level of play? Cause we can see it was very good this year... And the stats show he was a top goalie in the league.
- nelson911

Not to mention, you don't need an elite goalie to win the cup, depending on the team you put in front of him.

Possible. But to be honest, the Pens level of play in the playoffs came out of nowhere. Does that even happen with MAF in net the whole time if he was never injured?
- ConnorMcDaigle

No, it came out of Christmas. They'd been playing that way since Christmas. A few more blocked shots, same tenacious defensive coverage all over the rink.

Love that Jimmy is asking for the 6th overall. Don't undervalue your own assets.

If we deal Fleury and don't take any salary back we will be players in free agency. Rutherford is a deal maker. He's not going to move $5.75 in salary and not try to sign a name. Could (frank) us when we need to sign a bunch of guys next year, but he's going all in for the cup again. If we have $10 million in salary cap space (which we would if we trade Fleury and Malkin is LTIR) you better believe he's making another splash.
- sditulli

Getting a guy with Flower's cap space should just be implied by this point

Yohe said Fleury not demanding trade, may start year with Pens, per GMJR

Yohe said Fleury not demanding trade, may start year with Pens, per GMJR
- cap1681

Key word there I see... is "demanding"... he could be opened to one, or okay if one came along, but hes not forcing JR's hand. At least that is how I am reading Yohe's wording.

Really, how so?

There are no teams playing hockey right now.

How many goalies get hurt during a season? How many falter?

There will be trading partners later that are not trading partners now.
- icedog97

Your whole argument is based on some unforeseen variable playing out. ie somebody getting hurt. It is akin to a dealer showing a 7 and you hitting on 18.

Look at it this way, assuming all other variables remain the same, do we have more leverage now or the day before we have to submit our list of protected players for the expansion draft? The closer to the draft we get, the less we have any leverage in negotiating. If Calgary were to wait us out(really the smartest move they could make), we are left with very few choices. 1) Buy out Fleury(then Calgary could sign w/o giving up assets) 2) Pay to get rid of Fleury(package him with a pick to entice some team to take him) 3) Trade or lose Murray.

The closer we get to the end of the timeline requiring one of those options to come into play the worse off we are. Right now we have time---that isnt an excuse to waste it.

Rules remain unset, but I don't see why they wouldn't be able to.
- hardnosed

If you buy him out after next season, you have a 2.9 mil cap hit for the next 4 years. No thanks

Yohe said Fleury not demanding trade, may start year with Pens, per GMJR
- cap1681

Yeah because saying hes demanding a trade and will be struggling to get ice time does wonders for trade value

Calgary Sun is such a joke? 2.5 million over the cap? Yeah, i can go on General Fanager and see the Pens situation too. Don't these clowns realize that Pascal Dupuis is LTIR and there is no cap hit? And you wonder why print media is on the decline...

Key word there I see... is "demanding"... he could be opened to one, or okay if one came along, but hes not forcing JR's hand. At least that is how I am reading Yohe's wording.
- Guile

I think it's more along the lines that he is letting teams know he doesn't HAVE to trade Fleury, so any idea of the Pens giving him away are moot. If someone wants Fleury, they will have to give something up. GMJR is good with riding it out.

I think it's more along the lines that he is letting teams know he doesn't HAVE to trade Fleury, so any idea of the Pens giving him away are moot. If someone wants Fleury, they will have to give something up. GMJR is good with riding it out.
- cap1681

Agreed. Was just thinking the same thing.

I think it's more along the lines that he is letting teams know he doesn't HAVE to trade Fleury, so any idea of the Pens giving him away are moot. If someone wants Fleury, they will have to give something up. GMJR is good with riding it out.
- cap1681

Basically the same thing, but from JR's viewpoint

Your whole argument is based on some unforeseen variable playing out. ie somebody getting hurt. It is akin to a dealer showing a 7 and you hitting on 18.

Look at it this way, assuming all other variables remain the same, do we have more leverage now or the day before we have to submit our list of protected players for the expansion draft? The closer to the draft we get, the less we have any leverage in negotiating. If Calgary were to wait us out(really the smartest move they could make), we are left with very few choices. 1) Buy out Fleury(then Calgary could sign w/o giving up assets) 2) Pay to get rid of Fleury(package him with a pick to entice some team to take him) 3) Trade or lose Murray.

The closer we get to the end of the timeline requiring one of those options to come into play the worse off we are. Right now we have time---that isnt an excuse to waste it.
- Rawdog9755

"It is akin to a dealer showing a 7 and you hitting on 18."

uh...no it's not...unless this card game is gonna last several months.

You are of the "hurry up and do something mentality" and nothing needs to be done.

My argument is based on the Pens have goaltending depth, part of which is a rookie who may or may not be as good as the guy he is supposed to be replacing.

The expansion draft is not tomorrow...it's a good way off yet.

We are not in a weak position.

Think about it...if you agree with RW about how there isn't much value to be obtained from a MAF trade, then isn't he MORE valuable on our roster?

If we part ways later...after he plays half a season and wins some games...and we see Murray is okay...and we get an OK deal for MAF...then are we any worse off?

Yohe said Fleury not demanding trade, may start year with Pens, per GMJR
- cap1681

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Yohe. Unless Pens blown away (by Flames first rounder, for example), not giving MAF up. How many times must the facts be clear before our armchair hockeybuzz GMs (as well as the fickle Pittsburgh media) get it?

Not only do I not see Fleury drawing a top prospect, I see the Pens eating 20% of his salary. Especially if we end up in need of cap relief. I know it appears we don't but that can change if the right player with a big salary needs to come here as a result of an injury. Especially on defense.

I think it's more along the lines that he is letting teams know he doesn't HAVE to trade Fleury, so any idea of the Pens giving him away are moot. If someone wants Fleury, they will have to give something up. GMJR is good with riding it out.
- cap1681

At the end of the day I think it gets done to calgary for 2 2nd round picks. Hopefully both this year.

I wish Calgary had arizon'as gm. He loves analytics. He would look at a hero chart on pouliot and agree to

Fleury + Pouliot = 6th pick.

At the end of the day I think it gets done to calgary for 2 2nd round picks. Hopefully both this year.

I wish Calgary had arizon'as gm. He loves analytics. He would look at a hero chart on pouliot and agree to

Fleury + Pouliot = 6th pick.
- sditulli

That i can live with.

Not only do I not see Fleury drawing a top prospect, I see the Pens eating 20% of his salary. Especially if we end up in need of cap relief. I know it appears we don't but that can change if the right player with a big salary needs to come here as a result of an injury. Especially on defense.
- powerhouse

If that is the case, then just do a cap dump and get a poopty draft pick in return. Retaining salary on Fleury is last resort stuff for me, which I'd be shocked happens unless it's a blockbuster of a trade.

Think about it...if you agree with RW about how there isn't much value to be obtained from a MAF trade, then isn't he MORE valuable on our roster?
?
- icedog97

Yep. A year of Fleury is worth more than spare parts.

The 6th is not happening people, just get it out of your head. For a team that is young and a few years away from competing for a Cup, you don't move the 6th overall unless it's for a young, proven cornerstone piece.