If you want specific trades, that would be a year from now in theory, not going to bother with that, its pure speculation.

But if you want a super worst case scenario, if for some ridiculous reason, Flower can't be dealt... TRADE MURRAY for a kings ransom.
- Guile

I'm a Pens fan through and through. I'm also a big fan of Fleury. I'm sentimental, but I also recognize this is a business.

I believe that even if Murray never stepped in that Fleury would have taken the Pens far. Fleury was playing the best hockey of his career prior to the concussion.

All that said, that's not how things work. You don't choose a player with a two or three years of effectiveness left over a young player who's just as capable.

Trading Murray would be a decision that would haunt the Penguins for a decade. Yes, Jarry could pan out, but we have no basis for that right now.

Thinking three years down the road when Fleury's contract is up and the Pens are desperately trying to find suitable replacement either by overpaying in the UFA market, auctioning off the future or moving a major roster player.

The Penguins are in a very lucky position to have a goalie to help them compete for another ten years. I hate the idea of a buyout, but again, this is a business and you have to make hard decisions. A buyout makes more sense than trading Murray IMO.

I def listed buying out Fleury as an option, although i was never advocating nor do I think it is anything short of the absolute last resort. Id sooner package our 2017 1st with Fleury just to move him than buy him out--not that i believe it would take that extreme of a measure to deal him.
- Rawdog9755

I simply see zero reason to even consider the chance of Flower being unmovable. You could ship him out for just a mid pick before even needing to consider keeping cap on him, yet alone having to buy him out. The dude is a top 10 goalie in the NHL still. Its not his fault that we most likely have ANOTHER top 10 goalie, for 5 mil less now.

TIOPS reporting that the Flames are trying to gauge the Pens interest in moving Murray for a package centered around the 6th overall.
- cap1681

If they want Murray, I wouldnt do it for the 6th overall. The conversation for Murray to the Flames starts with Brodie+ imo. The other thing to consider is that if they were to explore the market for Murray there is no need to limit it to Calgary as most teams would probably move mountains to get him.

If they want Murray, I wouldnt do it for the 6th overall. The conversation for Murray to the Flames starts with Brodie+ imo. The other thing to consider is that if they were to explore the market for Murray there is no need to limit it to Calgary as most teams would probably move mountains to get him.
- Rawdog9755

But Calgary's dire need for a goalie, would still make them one of the best suitors

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 12m12 minutes ago
#penguins Jim Rutherford says he offered a contract extension to Jacques Martin. Confident it will get done. #tvasports

Does anyone else think it's crazy that the draft is in 3 days, and the Cap hasn't been finalized yet???

Does anyone else think it's crazy that the draft is in 3 days, and the Cap hasn't been finalized yet???
- cap1681

Quite so

But Calgary's dire need for a goalie, would still make them one of the best suitors
- Guile

Agreed, im just saying the market for him is way wider than Fleury. Teams would move out other goalies to get him that wouldnt do so to acquire Fleury. I am not too sure how interested Calgary would be in moving Brodie either, but that would certainly solve the issue of losing Lovejoy and trying to resign Shultz. Without looking the cap would be close so the Pens would likely have to add a contract to keep a cushion. Somebody like Fehr would be a prime candidate.

Does anyone else think it's crazy that the draft is in 3 days, and the Cap hasn't been finalized yet???
- cap1681

I want to say yes, but not with the NHL. Second rate league

Agreed, im just saying the market for him is way wider than Fleury. Teams would move out other goalies to get him that wouldnt do so to acquire Fleury. I am not too sure how interested Calgary would be in moving Brodie either, but that wouldnt certainly solve the issue of losing Lovejoy and trying to resign Shultz. Without looking the cap would be close so the Pens would likely have to add a contract to keep a cushion. Somebody like Fehr would be a prime candidate.
- Rawdog9755

Well, unless I am mistaken...

Young starting goalie => Young top 4 Dman > young top 6 Forward is the usual tier ranking. Goalies being a lot more volatile of a risk in trades though.

I'd rather start at Sam Bennett for Murray, vs that #6 pick... but thats just me.

If they want Murray, I wouldnt do it for the 6th overall. The conversation for Murray to the Flames starts with Brodie+ imo. The other thing to consider is that if they were to explore the market for Murray there is no need to limit it to Calgary as most teams would probably move mountains to get him.
- Rawdog9755

How do you fix the money issue of that trade? Brodie makes $4M more than Murray.

Does anyone else think it's crazy that the draft is in 3 days, and the Cap hasn't been finalized yet???
- cap1681

I think it's insanity, but I also understand the NHL is run by morons. I also think it's nuts that the rules for the expansion draft haven't been released to the GM's yet either.

How do you fix the money issue of that trade? Brodie makes $4M more than Murray.
- Rinosaur

You go for Bennett instead

TIOPS reporting that the Flames are trying to gauge the Pens interest in moving Murray for a package centered around the 6th overall.
- cap1681

If we could flip Murray somehow into the third pick I would be down for it. I have no problem flipping a franchise goaltender for a franchise top 6 type. Talk seems to be that the top 3 guys in the draft have that ability. Plus we have to pay Murray after this year. A top 3 pick we could get 2 superb years of elc play.

Well, unless I am mistaken...

Young starting goalie => Young top 4 Dman > young top 6 Forward is the usual tier ranking. Goalies being a lot more volatile of a risk in trades though.

I'd rather start at Sam Bennett for Murray, vs that #6 pick... but thats just me.
- Guile

Im more concerned with replacing our potentially lost depth on D than on the wings. A top 4 of Letang, Dumo, Daley and Brodie would be something to salivate over. Brodie also provides some insurance with Daley coming off injury, and his contract is really reasonable. Regardless, probably a pipedream.

How do you fix the money issue of that trade? Brodie makes $4M more than Murray.
- Rinosaur

You let Lovejoy and Shultz walk and include Fehr in the deal with Murray. Im not running the numbers, but im betting that is close to a workable deal cap wise. Value wise id have to think it over.

Im more concerned with replacing our potentially lost depth on D than on the wings. A top 4 of Letang, Dumo, Daley and Brodie would be something to salivate over. Brodie also provides some insurance with Daley coming off injury, and his contract is really reasonable. Regardless, probably a pipedream.
- Rawdog9755

We don't need Brodie... Maatta should be in shape come next season, since hes not coming off surgery.

So, Brodie now has to compete for a top 4 spot, or hes a bottom pairing Dman.... for 4 mil.

You go for Bennett instead
- Guile

He's a Center. Does he play LW? If so, has he done so with any success?

We don't need Brodie... Maatta should be in shape come next season, since hes not coming off surgery.

So, Brodie now has to compete for a top 4 spot, or hes a bottom pairing Dman.... for 4 mil.


- Guile

Daley likely gone after next year......Brodie would be his replacement in waiting ala Dumo and Martin.

We don't need Brodie... Maatta should be in shape come next season, since hes not coming off surgery.

So, Brodie now has to compete for a top 4 spot, or hes a bottom pairing Dman.... for 4 mil.


- Guile

Daley is gone after this season. Dumoulin, Letang, Maatta and Brodie is as good of a top-four as you could hope for.

He's a Center. Does he play LW? If so, has he done so with any success?
- Rinosaur

He is a natural Center, but played left wing for the Flames in the 2015 playoff run, and has at other times as well. However, they don't have another stud who is cheap that would makes sense cap wise in a trade for Murray.

Daley likely gone after next year......Brodie would be his replacement in waiting ala Dumo and Martin.
- Rawdog9755

I don't see any way in hell you can make the cap work for this upcoming year though in this trade.

He is a natural Center, but played left wing for the Flames in the 2015 playoff run, and has at other times as well. However, they don't have another stud who is cheap that would makes sense cap wise in a trade for Murray.
- Guile

Shinkaruk is a prospect that many have been drooling over.

I don't see any way in hell you can make the cap work for this upcoming year though in this trade.
- Guile

Lovejoy was what 1.1? Fehr is 2. Lets say they were going to offer Shultz around 2. All of that is Brodie right there. Other option would be to include Ian Cole.

Shinkaruk is a prospect that many have been drooling over.
- Rinosaur

They have 3 good LW prospects actually... but Murray is worth a lot more than them.


I would like one of the 3, preferably Shink or Poirier, and a 2nd. Is pretty much a two 2nds for Flower... sounds damn fair to me, and even a good bit on the Flame's blog when it was brought up a few days ago.