The market has already been set on moving these cap hits and a third rounder isn't getting it done. If Holland doesn't want to move a quality player like Chicago just did or cough up a 2nd like Florida just did then he's going to have to offer some type of package because not one GM in this league is giving away 10% of their salary cap for a 3rd or later pic.

As for this retarded family vs honor argument, it's business. Get over it. No one is doing anything wrong or heroic here.

Last, the league probably shouldn't even allow teams to trade any contracts for players who aren't actually playing like Horton, Savard or Pavs. It's all cap circumvention.
- Queenie_5_hole

Bickell is a bottom six / borderline NHL/AHL player who is getting paid $4.5 million in real dollars next year against a $4 million cap hit, and he'll be playing in either the NHL or AHL next year. His situation is in no way comparable to Datsyuk's. It makes sense that the cost of moving his contract would be much higher.

Savard is a better comparison, but he'll still cost $575k out of pocket against a $4 million cap hit. The second-rounder NJ also picked up in the deal isn't until 2018, so best-case scenario even if that pick hits the player probably wouldn't be ready to contribute at the NHL level for 5-7 years. Probably neither of the guys NJ gave up will amount to much if anything, but from Florida's perspective both guys would be immediate contributors at the minor league level, with Thompson possibly serving spot duty in the NHL this year. In the end, New Jersey lost a little minor league depth and added about $300k to their ledger (assuming Thompson and Black would have played in the AHL all year) in return for a 1/3 shot at a NHL player seven years from now.

Datsyuk by contrast will cost $0 out of pocket against a $7.5 million hit. The size of that cap penalty certainly narrows the list of the teams able to take him, but for those that can, it's strictly a paper move, no cost whatsoever. Even if all you're getting in addition is a 4th rounder or thereabouts, it's a free asset. It doesn't cost you any money and it might not cost you any assets either. Or maybe the deal is you trade up from your sixth rounder to Detroit's third. Again, not a huge gain, but since Datsyuk won't cost you any real money, you're getting something for nothing. You wouldn't take that deal all day, every day?

I believe Detroit could also retain up to half the hit in the transaction, too, which would widen the list of available trade partners.

When Holland offered him the contract, he did so knowing that Datsyuk not only had every right to leave before the contract expired, but also knowing that Pavel had already stated that he wanted to play in Russia before he got too old. Holland signed him fully aware of the risks and consequences. He accepted those risks when he signed him. Pavel didnt make the rule that stated that teams can be stuck with the cap hit of retired players, the owners did.

Now Im not saying its right to back out of a contract, but sometimes life isnt that simple. The rules allow Pavel to retire whenever he wants. If Datsyuk believes going back to Russia is that important, then thats the decision that he has to make.
- ajhill4594

No holland believed datsyuk wanted a long term beal because his agent came to holland asking for a 5 year deal and holland negotiated it down to 3 datsyuks agent Scott greenstein I believe failed to tell datsyuk tgat if he retired during the deal his cap would count against the team salary cap when datsyuk found that out he fired his agent I put more blame on the agent then I do on holland and datsyuk because the agent failed to give his client the right information which also mislead holland into thinking datsyuk was wanting to stay longer

I think that if they move the contract - and still retain about $2M of it...they still have a legit chance to go after Stamkos. Or at least one of the other FAs that could benefit this team. (Okposo, Backes, Nielsen)

If Holland is able to move this cap hit - as a fan, I would be disappointed if he doesn't offer max deal for Stamkos of 7 year 10M/year. Just picturing Stamkos and Larkin anchoring this team...its a nice dream!

Family first? Does one of his family members have a terminal illness? He has been away from Russia for 15 years...what is one more year? The family thing is a BS excuse for him to bail on a signed contract/obligation to the team that paid him millions of dollars to play hockey. Anyone who watched him this year saw that he was a shell of his former self. It comes down to Pavel Datsyuk being frustrated by his inability to dominate the NHL like he has for most of his career. Unless there is a family issue that I am unaware of, the family excuse is just that, an excuse.
- EnzoD

It all has to do with his 13 yr old daughter, that his ex wife took back to Russia a few yrs ago.

As its already been stated numerous times, he was misled by his ex agent when he signed his current contract.

The only reason why he played in the NHL this past season was he was made aware of the situation he would leave the Wings in.

You can call it an "excuse", but only seeing your 13 yr old a few weeks out of the yr, while she is crying to him how much she misses him and needs him, would have an affect on any parent. He said enough. As much as I will miss seeing him on the ice with the Wings, I say good for him. The yrs of raising your kids are fleeting. Brad Stuart left the Wings for the same reason, but that was only CA. This is Russia. There is no quick trips for a visit.

He is issuing public statements to the press. I wouldnt be surprised if he was cursing Datsyuk at home. He left them with one year on a contract and a dead $7.5mil in cap space that Ken Holland said himself is unlikely to be moved.

To the shining star that called me an idiot...that is a clear personal attack on another poster. Check the Code of Conduct before you get yourself a ban. I understand that today was a tough day for you, but Datsyuk took the coward's way out (unless he has a serious issue at home in Russia).
- EnzoD

My god. Calm down guy.

Bickell is a bottom six / borderline NHL/AHL player who is getting paid $4.5 million in real dollars next year against a $4 million cap hit, and he'll be playing in either the NHL or AHL next year. His situation is in no way comparable to Datsyuk's. It makes sense that the cost of moving his contract would be much higher.

Savard is a better comparison, but he'll still cost $575k out of pocket against a $4 million cap hit. The second-rounder NJ also picked up in the deal isn't until 2018, so best-case scenario even if that pick hits the player probably wouldn't be ready to contribute at the NHL level for 5-7 years. Probably neither of the guys NJ gave up will amount to much if anything, but from Florida's perspective both guys would be immediate contributors at the minor league level, with Thompson possibly serving spot duty in the NHL this year. In the end, New Jersey lost a little minor league depth and added about $300k to their ledger (assuming Thompson and Black would have played in the AHL all year) in return for a 1/3 shot at a NHL player seven years from now.

Datsyuk by contrast will cost $0 out of pocket against a $7.5 million hit. The size of that cap penalty certainly narrows the list of the teams able to take him, but for those that can, it's strictly a paper move, no cost whatsoever. Even if all you're getting in addition is a 4th rounder or thereabouts, it's a free asset. It doesn't cost you any money and it might not cost you any assets either. Or maybe the deal is you trade up from your sixth rounder to Detroit's third. Again, not a huge gain, but since Datsyuk won't cost you any real money, you're getting something for nothing. You wouldn't take that deal all day, every day?

I believe Detroit could also retain up to half the hit in the transaction, too, which would widen the list of available trade partners.
- Sven22

That's not exactly accurate. Thompson is making $575,000 and Black is making $650,000. The Devils saved $650,000 net in the Savard deal. And they cleared our roster spots. Taking Pavs free contract is more expensive.

And while I'm not against taking a cap for asset deal I wouldn't give someone in the conference $7.5 Million in cap relief for a fourth rounder or trade you a sixth for your third. Fourth rounders aren't valuable. Only 1 in 3 of all players taken in that round make the NHL and only 1 in 5 play 100 games.

Meanwhile the benefit to Detroit is significant regarding who they can acquire with that much money freed up. Why would any team want to help out that much for low value pick?

My god. Calm down guy.
- KINGS67

Yeah, Enzo needs a smoke.

There will always be floor teams that will take a dead money cap hit. You can bet the farm Kenny Moves that contract. I wonder how Datsyuk's contract will like Arizona,....


- 50 mission cap

The problem with this deal is the salary is not dead. His salary will be 5.5M. Hard to get a team to pay that for nothing.

That's not exactly accurate. Thompson is making $575,000 and Black is making $650,000. The Devils saved $650,000 net in the Savard deal. And they cleared our roster spots. Taking Pavs free contract is more expensive.

And while I'm not against taking a cap for asset deal I wouldn't give someone in the conference $7.5 Million in cap relief for a fourth rounder or trade you a sixth for your third. Fourth rounders aren't valuable. Only 1 in 3 of all players taken in that round make the NHL and only 1 in 5 play 100 games.

Meanwhile the benefit to Detroit is significant regarding who they can acquire with that much money freed up. Why would any team want to help out that much for low value pick?
- Queenie_5_hole

That's what they'll make if they play in the NHL, which they probably won't, at least not for very long. Thompson's AHL salary is $225k and Black's is $65k, meaning that the Devils would only pay out $290k if both stayed in the minors all year. Savard will cost them $575k regardless.

Regarding the rest of your post, a competitive conference opponent might have some reservations about even a win-win trade if it produced a greater win for a rival, but it's hard to see how a team like Calgary or Winnipeg or Arizona would give a rip about how much they're helping Detroit as long as they're helping themselves, too. And while I agree with you that the majority of third or fourth rounders ultimately amount to nothing more often than not, I disagree that such a pick is valueless. Many players taken in that round do turn out to be productive NHLers. You don't expect to hit a home run with every pick, but the more shots you give yourself, the more likely you get lucky on one or two.

He is issuing public statements to the press. I wouldnt be surprised if he was cursing Datsyuk at home. He left them with one year on a contract and a dead $7.5mil in cap space that Ken Holland said himself is unlikely to be moved.

To the shining star that called me an idiot...that is a clear personal attack on another poster. Check the Code of Conduct before you get yourself a ban. I understand that today was a tough day for you, but Datsyuk took the coward's way out (unless he has a serious issue at home in Russia).
- EnzoD

Code of conduct? Bahaha! Are You kidding me? Youre not an idiot...more like a tool.

The problem with this deal is the salary is not dead. His salary will be 5.5M. Hard to get a team to pay that for nothing.
- MJL

Incorrect

He is paid nothing because he is retiring, if he had been on LTIR he would be owed money but not when you retire which is why were on the hook for the cap hit in the first place

Incorrect

He is paid nothing because he is retiring, if he had been on LTIR he would be owed money but not when you retire which is why were on the hook for the cap hit in the first place
- digitalbath

correct

Incorrect

He is paid nothing because he is retiring, if he had been on LTIR he would be owed money but not when you retire which is why were on the hook for the cap hit in the first place
- digitalbath

How does Detroit trade a player that is retired? The assumption is that they trade Datsyuk without him retiring, to be relieved of the 35+ contract and the cap hit.

How does Detroit trade a player that is retired? The assumption is that they trade Datsyuk without him retiring, to be relieved of the 35+ contract and the cap hit.
- MJL

He gets traded...then retires...which leaves the cap hit without salary

He gets traded...then retires...which leaves the cap hit without salary
- YuenglingJagr

Gotcha.

Would you guys consider moving either of Pulkkinen or Jurco? If so, what would the ask from the Oilers be? Something minor?

That's what they'll make if they play in the NHL, which they probably won't, at least not for very long. Thompson's AHL salary is $225k and Black's is $65k, meaning that the Devils would only pay out $290k if both stayed in the minors all year. Savard will cost them $575k regardless.

Regarding the rest of your post, a competitive conference opponent might have some reservations about even a win-win trade if it produced a greater win for a rival, but it's hard to see how a team like Calgary or Winnipeg or Arizona would give a rip about how much they're helping Detroit as long as they're helping themselves, too. And while I agree with you that the majority of third or fourth rounders ultimately amount to nothing more often than not, I disagree that such a pick is valueless. Many players taken in that round do turn out to be productive NHLers. You don't expect to hit a home run with every pick, but the more shots you give yourself, the more likely you get lucky on one or two.
- Sven22

You're right about the salary. My mistake.

I can't argue about how other teams out west might feel but we'll see what happens. I just don't expect anyone to be as accommodating as it seems you are expecting. I'd be shocked if Detroit doesn't do what's necessary to move the contract so we will soon know what $7.5M in cap hit is worth.

You're right about the salary. My mistake.

I can't argue about how other teams out west might feel but we'll see what happens. I just don't expect anyone to be as accommodating as it seems you are expecting. I'd be shocked if Detroit doesn't do what's necessary to move the contract so we will soon know what $7.5M in cap hit is worth.
- Queenie_5_hole

well the issue is if the price is something of a "10-12 year player" then holland said he wouldnt even consider it. Which i agree he shouldnt, its 1 year of lousy cap space

Would you guys consider moving either of Pulkkinen or Jurco? If so, what would the ask from the Oilers be? Something minor?
- MaximumBone

Canes' will happily take both AND Datsyuk's contract off their hands.

Canes' will happily take both AND Datsyuk's contract off their hands.
- BINGO!

Sure, i'm not sure these two players really fit in our system anyways. They're expendable.