I'm no solicitor, but a 'draft' isn't a 'trade'. So in my books the discussion is not comparable unless it's part of the fine print. Flower doesn't seem to me to be a 'high roller' type of guy, even though his cheese & kisses loves diamonds apparently!
- Aussiepenguin

No we got a little OT on that one...just stating the rules of keeping/voiding a NMC in a trade (i.e. if a team acquiring him didnt want to be forced to protect him)

Again ill ask, when will the draft be? Before or after free agency?
- Zac_O

Next june...i.e. before July 1st FA period...but the timeline could be moved around and there may be a buyout window before the draft (I think)

Again ill ask, when will the draft be? Before or after free agency?
- Zac_O

Before

Murray isn't LEGIT. He is very promising, but also has some potentially major gaps that could be exposed, such as dropping too quickly, poor puck handling, etc. Given Jarry in the minors is also playing very well, I think the risk is well worth it...the opportunity to draft in the top 5 for a Cup winning team doesn't happen that often, if ever, and if it costs a young goalie, when you already have Fleury and another goalie in the minors, it seems as a no-brainer. I'd venture the "bust" potential on a top 5 pick , #3 if GMJR gets creative, is much lower than on Murray and is much more helpful for the team going forward.
- mventres

I love how Murray isn't LEGIT, but we expect to get a top 5 pick for him.

Yes, Murray has a chance to regress, just like other young players, but against the toughest pressure, Murray was at his best.

Fact is, the Pens best chance at winning multiple Cups would be in the next few years, while Murray is cost controlled and cheaper. Trading Fleury for peanuts is a win for the Pens, because you can add to this already deep team and make them better.

I am a huge Fleury fan, but i personally believe that the Pens have a better chance to repeat next year with Murray in net and an extra 5.75M to invest in this team than trading Murray, which will net you nothing that will help this coming year, and only having about 1M under the cap to improve this team.

I think Jarry had some growing pains this year. Was he even starting in the playoffs down there? I don't think he did, but not sure.
- madmike71

Either way, the point isn't Jarry, it's Murray and his value to the team vs a top 5 pick/winger. Not making a strong trade of Murray because of Jarry is nuts, you focus on Murray deal knowing Jarry is in development and that Fleury has at least 2-3 years of solid hockey left...if Jarry doesn't pan out, not the end of the world. However, if Murray doesn't pan out you forfeit potential of a top-line player for the foreseeable future. If Murray does pan out, great, a goalie alone doesn't win you the cup...if anything, history has shown a strong team with solid D can make up for a weaker goalie...

I love how Murray isn't LEGIT, but we expect to get a top 5 pick for him.

Yes, Murray has a chance to regress, just like other young players, but against the toughest pressure, Murray was at his best.

Fact is, the Pens best chance at winning multiple Cups would be in the next few years, while Murray is cost controlled and cheaper. Trading Fleury for peanuts is a win for the Pens, because you can add to this already deep team and make them better.

I am a huge Fleury fan, but i personally believe that the Pens have a better chance to repeat next year with Murray in net and an extra 5.75M to invest in this team than trading Murray, which will net you nothing that will help this coming year, and only having about 1M under the cap to improve this team.
- cap1681

Wasn't Murray also named the best goalie in the AHL last year? He's not exactly some no-namer who came out of left field.

Next june...i.e. before July 1st FA period...but the timeline could be moved around and there may be a buyout window before the draft (I think)
- YuenglingJagr

Well thats about the dumbest thing possible for so many reason. Teams will be forced to protect pending UFAs even if they dont plan to sign them. Will the new team just get handed a draft pick?

Wasn't Murray also named the best goalie in the AHL last year? He's not exactly some no-namer who came out of left field.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, he broke most of the AHL records last season for a goalie.

Well thats about the dumbest thing possible for so many reason. Teams will be forced to protect pending UFAs even if they dont plan to sign them. Will the new team just get handed a draft pick?
- Zac_O

yeah, probably the first overall.

Not sure. Seems interesting tho. Given Ward is a UFA and we could use a very solid D on an entry level that has proven he can play in the N. ...for a Cup winning 22 year old goalie.

It would be a high impact trade for both sides.
- brienstel

No it wouldnt, Carolina would never do that. They would turn to Chicago and ask for Crawford for a pick. or turn to UFA and sign a goalie for cheap.

The market is going to be a buyers market this year with goalies and a lot of teams got their guy last year.

That could be said for all positions, a lot of teams in cap trouble that will need to move a contract or two.

Either way, the point isn't Jarry, it's Murray and his value to the team vs a top 5 pick/winger. Not making a strong trade of Murray because of Jarry is nuts, you focus on Murray deal knowing Jarry is in development and that Fleury has at least 2-3 years of solid hockey left...if Jarry doesn't pan out, not the end of the world. However, if Murray doesn't pan out you forfeit potential of a top-line player for the foreseeable future. If Murray does pan out, great, a goalie alone doesn't win you the cup...if anything, history has shown a strong team with solid D can make up for a weaker goalie...
- mventres

I think taking a chance on Murray is risky. No team is blocking 35 shots in November. His value is at an all time high. If you get a top 10 pick, you take it.

Wasn't Murray also named the best goalie in the AHL last year? He's not exactly some no-namer who came out of left field.
- jmatchett383

Yes. And set a shutout record and GAA record, I believe.

Frolik is a "bona fide" top 6 player......who hasn't averaged over .5 PPG in the NHL.

Fact is, the Pens best chance at winning multiple Cups would be in the next few years, while Murray is cost controlled and cheaper. Trading Fleury for peanuts is a win for the Pens, because you can add to this already deep team and make them better.

- cap1681

Murray hits RFA after this year...so he's only really a megabargain for one more season.

yeah, probably the first overall.
- cap1681

I guess at least the oilers won't get it for the 10th time then.

Malkin+MAF/Murray for Lindholm+Hannifin+1st
- sammy87

Holy balls

I love how Murray has went from savior of this team in the playoffs to potential bust material and huge risk in a matter of about a week.

Frolik is a "bona fide" top 6 player......who hasn't averaged over .5 PPG in the NHL.
- sbroads24

He's a tweener at best. And worth about half of what he's paid. Taking him on would hurt more than it would help.

Yes, and the Flames would risk losing, who exactly? Joel Ortio? Big difference between the Flames exposing him and the Penguins exposing Murray.
- jmatchett383

It means they're out of the goalie market and they'll have to expose Jon Gillies. Not a huge risk I admit but it's still there.

Well thats about the dumbest thing possible for so many reason. Teams will be forced to protect pending UFAs even if they dont plan to sign them. Will the new team just get handed a draft pick?
- Zac_O

They will get handed draft picks in a way (guaranteed lottery picks) but there are rules in place that force teams to expose players with term

Murray hits RFA after this year...so he's only really a megabargain for one more season.
- hardnosed

Yeah, but he won't come anywhere close to MAF's contract next season. Most likely 4M a year bridge deal.

Either way, the point isn't Jarry, it's Murray and his value to the team vs a top 5 pick/winger. Not making a strong trade of Murray because of Jarry is nuts, you focus on Murray deal knowing Jarry is in development and that Fleury has at least 2-3 years of solid hockey left...if Jarry doesn't pan out, not the end of the world. However, if Murray doesn't pan out you forfeit potential of a top-line player for the foreseeable future. If Murray does pan out, great, a goalie alone doesn't win you the cup...if anything, history has shown a strong team with solid D can make up for a weaker goalie...
- mventres

I do agree... I'd listen to offers on both players because I'd be comfortable with either guy for the next few years.

I love how Murray has went from savior of this team in the playoffs to potential bust material and huge risk in a matter of about a week.
- cap1681

I love how Murray has went from savior of this team in the playoffs to potential bust material and huge risk in a matter of about a week.
- cap1681

Few people thought he was their playoff savior - he was solid, predictable and resilient.

And no one is calling him a bust - he's just not unmovable if the return was right.

I love how Murray isn't LEGIT, but we expect to get a top 5 pick for him.

Yes, Murray has a chance to regress, just like other young players, but against the toughest pressure, Murray was at his best.

Fact is, the Pens best chance at winning multiple Cups would be in the next few years, while Murray is cost controlled and cheaper. Trading Fleury for peanuts is a win for the Pens, because you can add to this already deep team and make them better.

I am a huge Fleury fan, but i personally believe that the Pens have a better chance to repeat next year with Murray in net and an extra 5.75M to invest in this team than trading Murray, which will net you nothing that will help this coming year, and only having about 1M under the cap to improve this team.
- cap1681

He's not LEGIT, as there isn't enough evidence to support that. A lot of goalies can have a solid playoff run, when team D is playing exceptionally well. While I don't think Murray is worth the #6, I do see why a team like Calgary would risk a deal along those lines (maybe some minor parts in there). Murray could be the next top goalie, or he could be the next hyped goalie a la Carrey, Bernier, etc.

Worrying only about next year's cap is not the best solution, imo. It's about risk for me, do you risk losing a solid goalie (Fleury) for nothing (essentially) and banking on a young unproven goalie, or do you stick with Fleury and trade the young goalie for what could potentially be the next major forward piece of the team for the next 10+ years. It is a tough call, but given goalie market for the foreseeable future, along with potential of Jarry, I thin it is a no-brainer.