Murray for Noah Hanifan?

Maybe this has already been asked but when would the expansion draft be? Before the draft and Free agency? After free agency opens? Because if its before free agency players who will become free agents nut have NMC will need to be protected even if you dont plan to re-sign them. Also If its after free agency and push comes to shove the pens could buy out Fleury right before the expansion draft.

Murray for Noah Hanifan?
- brienstel

You think Carolina would do that? That'd be very enticing.

Because in 3 years Crosby will be 32 and Malkin will be 33. The Pens need to ensure they have some LEGIT home grown top 6 players in the pipeline. If you can get to #6 without compromising your starting lineup you have a chance to do that. If trading one of your two starting goalies does that it is just good asset management.
- MacPatty

So you want to trade your LEGIT home grown talent that is ready to play now for some possible LEGIT grown talent in 3 years??

You think Carolina would do that? That'd be very enticing.
- Victoro311

I don't.

Because in 3 years Crosby will be 32 and Malkin will be 33. The Pens need to ensure they have some LEGIT home grown top 6 players in the pipeline. If you can get to #6 without compromising your starting lineup you have a chance to do that. If trading one of your two starting goalies does that it is just good asset management.
- MacPatty

In 3 years it will be our young D holding up the organisation with Sid & Geno leading a solid but not spectacular forward group - sort of a scoring all over type group with no points leaders amongst them. Can that win Stanley? Well hopefully we will have gone back to back to back by then!

You think Carolina would do that? That'd be very enticing.
- Victoro311

Not sure. Seems interesting tho. Given Ward is a UFA and we could use a very solid D on an entry level that has proven he can play in the N. ...for a Cup winning 22 year old goalie.

It would be a high impact trade for both sides.

I don't.
- madmike71

I honestly don't either. Carolina needs a goalie, but a D core of Faulk, Hanafin, and Fleury can make the need for a top end goalie lessen.

So you want to trade your LEGIT home grown talent that is ready to play now for some possible LEGIT grown talent in 3 years??
- cap1681

I would trade legit homegrown talent that will spend the majority of their time on the bench because the Pens have two legit starting goalies. Only one goalie can be the starter and Murray will be gone for nothing in the expansion draft if Fleury is still on the team.

Id be comfortable with either moving forward. It makes it an easier decision knowing Jarry is in WBS and maybe a year away from being brought up to the Pens.

Apparently Sid only beat Kessel by 3 points in the Conn Smythe vote in the closest Conn Smythe race ever. Whoever said if Kessel had one goal in Game 6 he would of won was probably right #TorontoMediaGuys

If i'm MAF, I tell the Pens right now I'm not waiving my NMC, no way no how. Either buy me out or keep me. That's the home fun for the NMC players going into the expansion draft.

As far as the Flames, they'll also have to protect MAF going into the expansion draft so they're taking on risk with that contract. How does Dennis Wideman and a 2nd sound ? Sorry but the upcoming expansion draft completely kills MAF value.

speaking of the haul one would get for Murray.... what kinda haul are we talking?

Jarry is a only a few years in the making.
- brienstel

I would guess that most of the trades people are proposing for Fleury could be made for Murray instead. Nobody is going to take MAF, because (1) Bishop and some other top-flight goalies will likely also be available, and (2) they know our other options are to trade Murray or lose him.

I wouldn't be too bummed about losing Murray - overvaluing a goaltender based on early sample is death (see: Ward, Cameron). He could turn out to be one of the best goalies in the league, but the odds are still incredibly against that. Getting a good return for Murray in a tough situation would be a definite win, although a lot of people wouldn't see it that way.

I would trade legit homegrown talent that will spend the majority of their time on the bench because the Pens have two legit starting goalies. Only one goalie can be the starter and Murray will be gone for nothing in the expansion draft if Fleury is still on the team.

Id be comfortable with either moving forward. It makes it an easier decision knowing Jarry is in WBS and maybe a year away from being brought up to the Pens.
- MacPatty

Jarry is no guarantee. I find it odd that he wasn't the go to guy in the playoffs for WBS.

Right...but can you nullify it on the spot without a trade? I'm not really sure.
- jmatchett383

The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause

You think Carolina would do that? That'd be very enticing.
- Victoro311

Absolutely not

So you want to trade your LEGIT home grown talent that is ready to play now for some possible LEGIT grown talent in 3 years??
- cap1681

Murray isn't LEGIT. He is very promising, but also has some potentially major gaps that could be exposed, such as dropping too quickly, poor puck handling, etc. Given Jarry in the minors is also playing very well, I think the risk is well worth it...the opportunity to draft in the top 5 for a Cup winning team doesn't happen that often, if ever, and if it costs a young goalie, when you already have Fleury and another goalie in the minors, it seems as a no-brainer. I'd venture the "bust" potential on a top 5 pick , #3 if GMJR gets creative, is much lower than on Murray and is much more helpful for the team going forward.

If i'm MAF, I tell the Pens right now I'm not waiving my NMC, no way no how. Either buy me out or keep me. That's the home fun for the NMC players going into the expansion draft.

As far as the Flames, they'll also have to protect MAF going into the expansion draft so they're taking on risk with that contract. How does Dennis Wideman and a 2nd sound ? Sorry but the upcoming expansion draft completely kills MAF value.
- tincup

Yes, and the Flames would risk losing, who exactly? Joel Ortio? Big difference between the Flames exposing him and the Penguins exposing Murray.

I would guess that most of the trades people are proposing for Fleury could be made for Murray instead. Nobody is going to take MAF, because (1) Bishop and some other top-flight goalies will likely also be available, and (2) they know our other options are to trade Murray or lose him.

I wouldn't be too bummed about losing Murray - overvaluing a goaltender based on early sample is death (see: Ward, Cameron). He could turn out to be one of the best goalies in the league, but the odds are still incredibly against that. Getting a good return for Murray in a tough situation would be a definite win, although a lot of people wouldn't see it that way.
- StealthTomato

No to losing Murray. That is just crazy talk.

They're not trading Murray.

They're not getting into the top-10 with a goalie trade.

MAF will be traded.

If any of you think otherwise, you're in fairly land.

Malkin+MAF/Murray for Lindholm+Hannifin+1st

Murray isn't LEGIT. He is very promising, but also has some potentially major gaps that could be exposed, such as dropping too quickly, poor puck handling, etc. Given Jarry in the minors is also playing very well, I think the risk is well worth it...the opportunity to draft in the top 5 for a Cup winning team doesn't happen that often, if ever, and if it costs a young goalie, when you already have Fleury and another goalie in the minors, it seems as a no-brainer. I'd venture the "bust" potential on a top 5 pick , #3 if GMJR gets creative, is much lower than on Murray and is much more helpful for the team going forward.
- mventres

I think Jarry had some growing pains this year. Was he even starting in the playoffs down there? I don't think he did, but not sure.

They're not trading Murray.

They're not getting into the top-10 with a goalie trade.

MAF will be traded.

If any of you think otherwise, you're in fairly land.
- jmatchett383

If things go south in the goalie market and no one is interested in MAF, we need to start bracing ourselves.

The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player's agent)
If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause
- YuenglingJagr

I'm no solicitor, but a 'draft' isn't a 'trade'. So in my books the discussion is not comparable unless it's part of the fine print. Flower doesn't seem to me to be a 'high roller' type of guy, even though his cheese & kisses loves diamonds apparently!

If things go south in the goalie market and no one is interested in MAF, we need to start bracing ourselves.
- Victoro311

He will be traded before the expansion draft. Maybe not this offseason.

He will be traded before the expansion draft. Maybe not this offseason.
- jmatchett383

Again ill ask, when will the draft be? Before or after free agency?