Fluery, pens 2nd, and Sheary for 6th OA and Ferland?

I know. just trying to stir conflict
- martox

Obviously my last post was before I saw this post.

Not sure MAF can force anything. We get to next March and they salary dump him for peanuts if his agent tries that stunt.
- PensFan1962

And what do you do if at the March trade deadline there is no overlap between the teams with the (i) Cap space to afford Fleury, (ii) desire to acquire him, and (iii) teams to which Fleury would accept a trade to?

Prior to the expansion draft, right now is the time when teams will have the most cap space available & most roster holes. That will only go down as UFA & the season starts.

did you read my other post?
- martox

Yes as per my above post.

A question for all those freaking out about the expansion draft and how it's going to force the Pens hands, have any of you actually looked around the league and considered who else may be exposed in the draft? Assuming others don't make trades and rosters sit as they do today there are other teams that will have to make similar decisions which will end up leaving quite a few very good goalies exposed, TB is going to have to decide between Bishop & Vasilevskiy, Anahiem is going to have to decide between Gibson & Andersson and others that aren't coming to mind off hand. Depending on progressions and how different players perform next year Murray may be safe even if left exposed. Panicking over something that may or may not happen in the future and making a hasty/knee jerk reaction because of that panic is a sure-fire recipe for disaster.
- jaydogg1974

Back to hating on murray again I see. For murray not to be picked he would have to put up a .88 save percentage next year. They have to select 3 goalies. No way a team passes on a 22 year old goalie that was record setting in the AHL and has won a cup. His glove hand deficiencies would have to go from a concern to career ending. Too much potential in him to pass. To be that bearish on Murray is ludicrous.

Fluery, pens 2nd, and Sheary for 6th OA and Ferland?
- nh4442

If that gets it done, sure, but I don't think that's realistic even if you take Ferland out of the equation.

I Kept reading that Flower's NTC was a limited one. What exactly does it entail? Ive read in some places it means he cant be sent to AHL or ECHL, in others, it suggests he can pick a small list of places that he will not agree to be sent to. Which is it? If it is the former, expansion is not an issue at all, but if it is the latter, then indeed they must protect him.

I personally would like to keep him to make sure Murray is the real deal (I've predicted all the way back to 2010 that the Pens will never win another Cup with MAF in goal) and then deal him for a package of picks. You will never get a Top 20 1st round pick for him, and more than likely a package of 2nd and 3rds is the best you can hope for. But restocking our minor league system is far more advantageous than getting a retread from someone else///

And what do you do if at the March trade deadline there is no overlap between the teams with the (i) Cap space to afford Fleury, (ii) desire to acquire him, and (iii) teams to which Fleury would accept a trade to?

Prior to the expansion draft, right now is the time when teams will have the most cap space available & most roster holes. That will only go down as UFA & the season starts.
- s0rcerer1984

So what happens when they panic to trade Fleury now, Murray has a slight sophomore slip and it turns out there are 2-3 goalies better than Murray left exposed in the expansion draft and the chances of Murray getting selected are very slim if he was exposed?

You end up having a rough season because you destroyed your goaltending depth(which may be the best in the league) for absolutely no reason.

My point is Fleury can actually force us to trade Murray if he wants to. Put every team that would trade him on his block list. NMC protects fleury in expansion draft. We are forced to trade Murray. Kind of a Richard move, but fleury also didn't do anything to lose his starting job.
- sditulli

Too many folks to respond to, but I didnt realize that Fleury was A.) automatically protected from expansion or B.) put all the teams that would take him on his NTC.

I think the final rules for expansion are still a work in progress so not sure it's set in stone.

I still think its worth considering trading Murray. Too many options off the top of my head but if someone like Sam Bennett is a reasonable return (who can play C or LW as I understand), we have a first line LW for Sid and still have Fleury for at least 3 years. Bennett right now costs the same as Murray, so if we can make the money work we would be cup favorites for at least 3 years. Not the best long term move but would be an incredible short term boost and not nearly as damaging to the future as some of the 1st rounder for rental deals we made in years past.

My sister said she was listening to ESPN Chicago on the radio and they said that malkin told Mario that he'd be ok with a trade to Chicago. EK's "rumors" are catching fire

Right now they sit at 73.9M committed for next year to 14 forwards, 6 defenseman and 2 goalie, figure in the 3.75M allowance they will get when Dupuis goes on LTIR they'll have 13F-6D-2G and around 1M left for the 7th D and potential callups. Nothing in that shows any NEED to have to break up the band.
- jaydogg1974

You know the team has to be cap compliant by the start of the season though, right? A player can't be put on LTIR until the season begins. The relief you see from Dupuis will not help until after that. You still need to move salary before the season begins.

Yes as per my above post.

- jaydogg1974

If the Penguins wait, possibly. But, even in the worst case scenario, I would think the Penguins would be able to move him this offseason.

Example: Fleury to Dallas for Niemi.

TX has low taxes, a very good team, & he would slide in as the starter. Retrun for the Pens would suck, but they wouldn't have to protect Niemi they way they would Fleury.
- s0rcerer1984

Dallas might not be a blocked team. So that deal is possible. When does fleury submit his blocked list for the year? His next list should easily be able to block any team with a remote interest.

Fluery, pens 2nd, and Sheary for 6th OA and Ferland?
- nh4442

Uhm....(frank) no!

I Kept reading that Flower's NTC was a limited one. What exactly does it entail? Ive read in some places it means he cant be sent to AHL or ECHL, in others, it suggests he can pick a small list of places that he will not agree to be sent to. Which is it? If it is the former, expansion is not an issue at all, but if it is the latter, then indeed they must protect him.

I personally would like to keep him to make sure Murray is the real deal (I've predicted all the way back to 2010 that the Pens will never win another Cup with MAF in goal) and then deal him for a package of picks. You will never get a Top 20 1st round pick for him, and more than likely a package of 2nd and 3rds is the best you can hope for. But restocking our minor league system is far more advantageous than getting a retread from someone else///
- Amanion

Restocking our minor league system(which is in pretty good shape anyway) does absolutely nothing to help them win the Cup again next year and that is and will always be priority #1 while Sid, Geno and Letang are in their primes, but having the best goaltending depth in the NHL reastically does give them a better chance of winning the Cup again next year.

Dallas might not be a blocked team. So that deal is possible. When does fleury submit his blocked list for the year? His next list should easily be able to block any team with a remote interest.
- sditulli

Fleury for Niemi in a way is similiar to the TT and Bickell deal that just went down. DAL would need to pay us a premium for the better player while Niemi is essentially a cap dump. If they throw in Nichushkin, I'm all ears.

You know the team has to be cap compliant by the start of the season though, right? A player can't be put on LTIR until the season begins. The relief you see from Dupuis will not help until after that. You still need to move salary before the season begins.
- TandA4Flames

Yes hence the part in my original post about being able to get there with a little imagination. Pouliot, Sundqvist & Sheary can all be sent down in paper moves the day before the season starts which should clear enough to get compliant, then get recalled day 1 when Dupuis officially goes on LTIR. Teams do it every year.

So what happens when they panic to trade Fleury now, Murray has a slight sophomore slip and it turns out there are 2-3 goalies better than Murray left exposed in the expansion draft and the chances of Murray getting selected are very slim if he was exposed?

You end up having a rough season because you destroyed your goaltending depth(which may be the best in the league) for absolutely no reason.
- jaydogg1974

First, even if Murray slumps a bit, please name the three goalies who you feel a team would acquire over him in an expansion draft. I can't think of more than one in Andersen/Gibson from Anaheim & Murray as a Cup champ and 4 RFA years left would still be 2nd either of them.

Second, what if Murray lights it up, the Pens can't trade Fleury, & they lose the next Patrick Roy in an expansion draft? I can make up crazy hypotheticals too, but I'dd rather deal in reality as it currently stands.

The facts, as they currently stand, are:
(i) the Penguins are unlikely to be able to keep both Murry and Fleury through an expansion draft;
(ii) the Penguins can only protect 1 G and that goalie must be Fleury, due to the terms his contract & the expansion draft rules, through an expansion draft;
(iii) Murray outplayed Fleury for the past two months on his way to Cup victory.

The Penguins make a decision on Fleury now because if you wait, the decision may no longer be within their power. Its not ideal, but, because of the expansion draft, doing nothing is the same as likely losing Murray for nothing.

My sister said she was listening to ESPN Chicago on the radio and they said that malkin told Mario that he'd be ok with a trade to Chicago. EK's "rumors" are catching fire
- drummer829

Anything's possible I suppose but I'll wait for a credible source. Apparently Geno is spending the offseason in Miami and said that "I like Pittsburgh but not as much as Miami". So maybe add Florida to this supposed list (even though they are in the Eastern Conference).

I'd put a Malkin trade at about 97.9% not going to happen. At least not now.

I Kept reading that Flower's NTC was a limited one. What exactly does it entail? Ive read in some places it means he cant be sent to AHL or ECHL, in others, it suggests he can pick a small list of places that he will not agree to be sent to. Which is it? If it is the former, expansion is not an issue at all, but if it is the latter, then indeed they must protect him.

I personally would like to keep him to make sure Murray is the real deal (I've predicted all the way back to 2010 that the Pens will never win another Cup with MAF in goal) and then deal him for a package of picks. You will never get a Top 20 1st round pick for him, and more than likely a package of 2nd and 3rds is the best you can hope for. But restocking our minor league system is far more advantageous than getting a retread from someone else///
- Amanion

Doesn't matter what the ideal situation would be to have 2 good goalies....MAF won't be a back up here. He will never get another contract in his career after this one. They either A. Move MAF or B. Move Murray.

So what happens when they panic to trade Fleury now, Murray has a slight sophomore slip and it turns out there are 2-3 goalies better than Murray left exposed in the expansion draft and the chances of Murray getting selected are very slim if he was exposed?

You end up having a rough season because you destroyed your goaltending depth(which may be the best in the league) for absolutely no reason.
- jaydogg1974

You are correct in that Fluery holds all the cards right now. And really the only reason I can see why other teams (Calgary) would express any interest at all in him is that somehow it was leaked (Allan Walsh) to them that Fluery wants traded in the first place.

Yes hence the part in my original post about being able to get there with a little imagination. Pouliot, Sundqvist & Sheary can all be sent down in paper moves the day before the season starts which should clear enough to get compliant, then get recalled day 1 when Dupuis officially goes on LTIR. Teams do it every year.
- jaydogg1974

Of course. But, are any of those guys open to being plucked from waivers?

I Kept reading that Flower's NTC was a limited one. What exactly does it entail? Ive read in some places it means he cant be sent to AHL or ECHL, in others, it suggests he can pick a small list of places that he will not agree to be sent to. Which is it? If it is the former, expansion is not an issue at all, but if it is the latter, then indeed they must protect him.

I personally would like to keep him to make sure Murray is the real deal (I've predicted all the way back to 2010 that the Pens will never win another Cup with MAF in goal) and then deal him for a package of picks. You will never get a Top 20 1st round pick for him, and more than likely a package of 2nd and 3rds is the best you can hope for. But restocking our minor league system is far more advantageous than getting a retread from someone else///
- Amanion

Two separate contract clauses.

Partial NTC: Fleury can list 18 teams he would accept a trade to. Ie, he can block a trade to 12 teams.

NMC: Fleury cannot be sent down to the AHL.

Under the proposed expansion rules, it seems that all players with NMCs must be protected as part of the expansion draft. So, unless the NHL changes the rules prior to finalizing them, Fleury would have to be protected & Murray exposed.

Fleury for Niemi in a way is similiar to the TT and Bickell deal that just went down. DAL would need to pay us a premium for the better player while Niemi is essentially a cap dump. If they throw in Nichushkin, I'm all ears.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

exactly. im not quite ready for that. i think fleury needs to be moved, but im not taking back a poopty contract just for it. i dont think its that desperate yet.

now if they want to throw in assets to make the swap, then maybe. but i think the cap space is too valuable

Doesn't matter what the ideal situation would be to have 2 good goalies....MAF won't be a back up here. He will never get another contract in his career after this one. They either A. Move MAF or B. Move Murray.
- sammy87

Hyperbole alert