Are you insane? The 6th OA AND a 2nd? Sorry dude, Hornqvist is ok but not what we need....certainly not for giving up the 6th OA.

Slap yourself for that proposal.
- TandA4Flames

Unless you think Poirier is ready I think it is worth it. Solidifies the right side and 6 isnt going to help them win now. This proposal does. 2nds are crapshoots.

the lads at the US Open

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1YqJDVMyeMwKV

Not sure Pens fans would do this deal either. I would...but Hornqvist is too loved and too valued by most of us. Now you can really
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Fair enough. My concern isn't whether the Pens would do it or not, it's that Hornqvist (along with Fleury) isn't what CGY should consider using the 6th OA pick on. We are still building and using 2 high picks for a couple guys at 30ish years old isn't good use of that top pick.

Reality is, not with Ward having re-upped in CAR, options for moving a G are down pretty much to just CGY. Maybe TOR looks but unless they get a great deal, they have no need to improve in that area right now. They are at the start of a rebuild so the pooptier they are, the better, for next year anyway. DAL can't get another G without 1st moving one of Niemi or Lehtonen. WPG has no need as they already have 3 G's And CAR is out. Who realistically is left?

Sorry guys, not trying to be a Richard but this is basic economics, supply and demand. They supply is great, the demand just isn't their. After Ward signing, I wouldn't offer anything more than a 3rd round pick and a possible cap dump on a still useful player.

But its a market with allot of tendies (and good ones) being potentially shopped as a result of the expansion draft. Were that not on the horizon, i doubt there a conversation to this extent.
- geta02it

The expansion draft really does change everything.

If Fleury wants to force the Pens to keep him, he could certainly try. He'd have to name 18 teams he could be traded to & could try to pick 18 teams who are near the Cap/have established goalies. Kessel did it effectively, but I think he had a veto over the more than 12 teams Fleury has.

Now Fleury could also decide he wants to go be a starter again so he can get a solid contract 2 years from now as a starter & waive his NTC to go to a team he has on his list. This would help the Pens trade him.

My only point is, waiting to mid-season when more teams are closer to the Cap or aren't looking for a veteran goalie as they are out of the Cup race carries the risk of no trade happening for a variety of reasons, including Fleury deciding he wants to stay in Pitt., & the Pens losing Murray. Need to move Fleury now or be prepared to lose Murray later.
- s0rcerer1984

They're definitely going to have to take significant less value for fleury, but the true value of trading fleury is keeping Murray protected. Maybe the pens could trade fleury for Frolik straight up, but I think it may be Wideman (salary retained) and a 2nd. Calgary is desperate to unload Wideman and they get their #1 goalie and the pens protect Murray, get an extra pick, and a depth dman which can replace lovejoy and Schultz on D

Realistically if a deal with Calgary is to be had it will be a 2 round pick and a prospect.
- geta02it

If that's the case, I'd rather keep him for next season and worry about dumping him for nothing next summer.

I knew malkin was playing hurt! also horny was playing hurt too with a fractured rib. rust with a broken finger, matt cullen with a fractured toe, letang with a infected heel, bonino with a infected elbow.
stanley cup champions ladies and gentlemen

Flames contacted pens about flower
- nh4442

They really want Beau Bennet and are willing to take MAF to get him

Flames contacted pens about flower
- nh4442

...and the Blues about Elliott or Allen...and the Lightning about Bishop or Vas...or ANA about Andersen or Gibson...etc.

BT has been in contact with every GM that has a G concern for the exp. draft.

Just cancel the subscription & stop payment on your credit card. Tell them the truth; That it was a mistake & you didn't know what you were doing.
- s0rcerer1984

Well at least he should have access to the rumor chart

...and the Blues about Elliott or Allen...and the Lightning about Bishop or Vas...or ANA about Andersen or Gibson...etc.

BT has been in contact with every GM that has a G concern for the exp. draft.
- TandA4Flames

I think at minimum, Calgary needs to part with Shinkaruk or Kylington

Unless you think Poirier is ready I think it is worth it. Solidifies the right side and 6 isnt going to help them win now. This proposal does. 2nds are crapshoots.
- FLflames34

If you think so. I don't think we are a Hornqvist and Fleury away from true cup contention. We are still, realistically 2 more years away from contending. All that trade does is make us playoff contenders and nothing more than a middling team, an area we spent a lot of time in the Sutter days.

Keep the 6th or use it to acquire a young talented asset that helps us in the 3-5 year range. Attempting to rush the process by using young assets on older vet players is a recipe for disaster.

Not sure why it is assumed that the Pens will have to take a poopty return for Fleury. If so, you are assuming that TB and ANA are willing to get into a race to the bottom and just dump their goalies.

In terms of Calgary, their best trade partner, I would think they'd prefer Fleury over the other two options. So if the Pens dont get a good value back its because one of the other guys are being given away.

Bishop is probably a rental looking to cash in with a Carey Price style contract.
Andersen isnt as good as Fleury and has never had to handle the full load of a starter.

Id be willing to bet that some salary on Wideman would be retained. Not saying he's the only answer but I think his play is realistically in the middle between two seasons ago and last year. I see him slightly under Maata and Daley but just. He was good on the PP.

Realistically if a deal with Calgary is to be had it will be a 2 round pick and a prospect.
- geta02it

sign me up.

If you think so. I don't think we are a Hornqvist and Fleury away from true cup contention. We are still, realistically 2 more years away from contending. All that trade does is make us playoff contenders and nothing more than a middling team, an area we spent a lot of time in the Sutter days.

Keep the 6th or use it to acquire a young talented asset that helps us in the 3-5 year range. Attempting to rush the process by using young assets on older vet players is a recipe for disaster.
- TandA4Flames

He is only 29, has a fair contract, and would fit well on the top line.

I think at minimum, Calgary needs to part with Shinkaruk or Kylington
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm not arguing Fleury's worth, not at all. I'm simply stating that given the situation with the exp draft and the # of teams looking to acquire any assets for G they believe will be grabbed, a G that will be 32 soon after the start of the season will not likely get back their full worth.

So no, I don't see CGY giving up 1 or top prospects. Maybe a lower prospect like Klimchuck or Culkin.

Not sure why it is assumed that the Pens will have to take a poopty return for Fleury. If so, you are assuming that TB and ANA are willing to get into a race to the bottom and just dump their goalies.

In terms of Calgary, their best trade partner, I would think they'd prefer Fleury over the other two options. So if the Pens dont get a good value back its because one of the other guys are being given away.

Bishop is probably a rental looking to cash in with a Carey Price style contract.
Andersen isnt as good as Fleury and has never had to handle the full load of a starter.
- MacPatty

i'm willing to take a lesser return in order to mitigate the potential risk of being caught with their pants down via the expansion draft. its just bad timing, but it is what it is.

the goalie market is a fickle and poopty thing anyway, which would naturally dampen a return.

sign me up.
- stayinthefnnet

2nd and Shinkaruk/Kylington is getting closer for me to say yes.

Damn guys, this was our team MVP of the regular season. He's got value. I know names like Hamilton and Brodie were never thrown out there but, frankly, I think they should be....with other pieces mixed in. Fleury will give Calgary at least 3 years of opportunity to make the playoffs. He can steal a lot of games.

I'm not arguing Fleury's worth, not at all. I'm simply stating that given the situation with the exp draft and the # of teams looking to acquire any assets for G they believe will be grabbed, a G that will be 32 soon after the start of the season will not likely get back their full worth.

So no, I don't see CGY giving up 1 or top prospects. Maybe a lower prospect like Klimchuck or Culkin.
- TandA4Flames

yeah. i agree. this isnt necessarily about fleurys value at all. i still think hes a good goalie. i think he would actually be tremendous on the flames. could be a steadying presence back there and really help a young team learn how to win. i know you dont want to be stuck in that no mans land are of just good enough but not great, but with young teams those years can be integral.

that being said, its just a perfect storm of opportunity from the buyers perspective.

If Fleury wants to be a starter again, all he has to do is refuse any trade and then wait until after the expansion when Murray is taken by Las Vegas. Voila, hes a starter again on the Pens.

Its a real shame. If not for this expansion draft, we could have one of the best goalie tandems in the league. And I still think splitting the two of them 50/50 next year would have been the way to go. I like Murray but his sample size is still small while we know what Fleury has to offer.

Or put Murray up and take that 6th pick

Can we give Murray a limited NMC as well and protect them both?

It doesn't worry me at all - the worst case scenario is that they have Fleury and Murray next year, which is a luxury they can afford because they don't really need to spend any more money this offseason.

In fact, it's weird to me that they won a Cup because of goalie depth and youthful exuberance and then the offseason hits and we're in a big hurry to get rid of the goalie depth so we can acquire wastoid UFA replacements for the young guys that just played huge roles in that Cup win.

Probably the most rational post I've seen on here in a very long time. They just won the Cup and people can't wait to break up the band.

That's not the point at all.

If there are no suitors, you are going to lose Matt Murray for nothing in the expansion draft.
- jmatchett383

how exactly? just dont protect MAF and let him go.

2nd and Shinkaruk/Kylington is getting closer for me to say yes.

Damn guys, this was our team MVP of the regular season. He's got value. I know names like Hamilton and Brodie were never thrown out there but, frankly, I think they should be....with other pieces mixed in. Fleury will give Calgary at least 3 years of opportunity to make the playoffs. He can steal a lot of games.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

dude im right there with you as a fan. it sucks. it really does. not only to come to the understanding that you have to ship our fleury, who was the long standing guy, lovable, the first core guy of the past ten years. but to understand that you have to basically throw him out the door at a half priced markdown.

but i just dont see an alternative solution that im comfortable rolling the dice on.

I'm not arguing Fleury's worth, not at all. I'm simply stating that given the situation with the exp draft and the # of teams looking to acquire any assets for G they believe will be grabbed, a G that will be 32 soon after the start of the season will not likely get back their full worth.

So no, I don't see CGY giving up 1 or top prospects. Maybe a lower prospect like Klimchuck or Culkin.
- TandA4Flames

Fair enough. And I'm glad we're discussing this with Calgary fans...you guys aren't douches like the Rags fans

If we reached a stalemate here, I'd rather keep Fleury next year then. He provides a lot of value even to us as insurance. Enough value that I'd rather lose him in the expansion draft next year than get a middling return now.

how exactly? just dont protect MAF and let him go.
- nightmare3020

if that was on the table, id be fine with just waiting it out and potentially losing him for nothing. but its not. he must be protected, therefore exposing murray.