I know how you feel about unproven prospects JJ, but to me Johns is the one we'll regret for a long time. He looks like Seabs 2.0 in 2-3 years.
- busmaster

No. Talk about overhyping Johns. He looks nothing like Seabrook except they are of similar size and are decent skaters. At age 24/25 Seabrook had a cup as a top 2 d men and started on Canada's gold-medal team. Johns just got his first taste of the NHL.

To be clear I am not bashing Toews I know what he brings. There is nothing wrong with wanting more. We saw his offensive creativity and prowess when he was younger. We don't see it as much. Maybe its time for Q to sit him down and say focus on offense a little bit more we need your line to score more 5 on 5, Kruger will do more of the heavy lifting defensively.

It is imperative that his line be a dominant 5 on 5 force next year. Can't just have Kane's line scoring 5 on 5. And sorry but Toews goal scoring was down last year. He had what 5 3 on 3 goals? Does anyone know how many 5 on 5 goals he scored? I think that is key. Toews and Co. generating 5 on 5 solves a lot of issues.
- bhawks2241

You are correct, it was. But his offense and most of the Blackhawks offense other than Kane, comes from the back end. And the defense was a mess this year overall. Have you noticed that as the possession time has gone down, so has Toews goal scoring?

I hope you are wrong but it would not surprise me. I am confident that the Hawks can retain one (or both) of Shaw+Ladd. Losing both, on top of TT, would be very difficult to recover from....
- EnzoD

Right on. I actually think Ladd has a better shot of staying than Shaw. Ladd has been paid, relatively, and has the experience to know what's most valuable.

Just a hunch.

I'd love to see Motte or Hartman brought up and a hopeful signing of Matt Martin. He's a hell of a fourth liner as we've seen against the hawks the last two go arounds. Him and Clutterbuck gave the hawks fits.

That said I'd assume #1 priority would be #4D.

JJ, think any of Cambpell, yandle, gologoski could end up in the indian head? I'd assume crow would be moved first but yandle especially would look mighty fine next to hammer...

I'll put down the pipe now.

Haven't played for well over a year, but was always a highsec carebear.
- stashu

I've spent time doing that too. I stated out with Eve University but bounced around a lot. Did mining for a while, joined a friends low sec corp. for a while but they were to squishy for me. Joined RvB did lots of destruction there. Went to Sniggwaffe/PL and then GSF.

I also moved freight for RedFrog, got fired for stealing a 6.5 billion isk Pirate Battleship. It's their fault. The collateral was only 750 mil so I made out quite nicely.

Right on. I actually think Ladd has a better shot of staying than Shaw. Ladd has been paid, relatively, and has the experience to know what's most valuable.

Just a hunch.
- Bjm84

I wouldn't bet any money on ur hunch. Unless u think Krueger or AA are going to be dealt.

I know how you feel about unproven prospects JJ, but to me Johns is the one we'll regret for a long time. He looks like Seabs 2.0 in 2-3 years.
- busmaster

Time will tell. That's a fairly high bar.

No. Talk about overhyping Johns. He looks nothing like Seabrook except they are of similar size and are decent skaters. At age 24/25 Seabrook had a cup as a top 2 d men and started on Canada's gold-medal team. Johns just got his first taste of the NHL.
- bhawks2241

For real . Johns couldnt stop getting walked all post season. Hes a bum. Svedbergs equal at best.

I'd love to see Motte or Hartman brought up and a hopeful signing of Matt Martin. He's a hell of a fourth liner as we've seen against the hawks the last two go arounds. Him and Clutterbuck gave the hawks fits.

That said I'd assume #1 priority would be #4D.

JJ, think any of Cambpell, yandle, gologoski could end up in the indian head? I'd assume crow would be moved first but yandle especially would look mighty fine next to hammer...

I'll put down the pipe now.
- the_dough_boy

No, no, and . . . no

I wouldn't bet any money on ur hunch.
- Al

Damn

The one guy the Hawks have traded that will haunt them will be Saad, until they can close that 1LW hole with 19. There's nothing a GM can do when you have X amount to spend and players wants Y.

And for the love of god, this whole Q bashing on prospects has to stop. You aren't moving 88/81 off of RW. So if guys like dano or TT can't adjust to a LW spot OR be a very serviceable bottom 6 player then what good are they? Exactly why they were used to acquire better assets/cap space in Ladd and Bickell's $$ gone.
.

Time will tell if I'm wrong, but I dont' plan on ever regretting the day Dano or TT left the Hawks organization.
- SteveRain

Saad will be a regret. He fit with Toews the way Panarin fits with Kane. His speed and burst have not been replaced on this roster.

Hossa, at least, could have been tried at LW. My biggest issue with the mismanagement of Dano was continuing to force him out of position in Rockford. Not necessarily to bring him back to the Hawks but to allow him to develop and increase his value. And I guarantee you they do regret trading him and a 1st for a rental that didn't get them past the 1st round.

I don't plan on regretting TT and Dano being traded. I do regret that the timing of both trades though and the process leading to each. It doesn't look like sound management in either instance. It looks dysfunctional on several levels. I hope there are unknowns (perhaps Bickell's injury tying SBs hands last year) that may be responsible.... and I can't find any excuse for Dano's mismanagement in the AHL.

Heard from my guy just now:

"Shaw is not anywhere near a done deal yet."
- John Jaeckel

I have that feeling as well. When the info rolled out this morning that Shaw and the Hawks will talk again near the draft?! If the money is there to possibly bring Ladd back, I think the Hawks have to really look at that. The lack of a top 6 LW outside of Panarnin makes Ladd a priority. Shaw is a warrior and I hopes he gets paid.

No, no, and . . . no
- John Jaeckel

If none of them I can't imagine there are too many top 4 caliber players the hawks could still trade for at this point. Barring unloading Schmaltz or whatever return for shaw/crow if they get traded.

To be clear I am not bashing Toews I know what he brings. There is nothing wrong with wanting more. We saw his offensive creativity and prowess when he was younger. We don't see it as much. Maybe its time for Q to sit him down and say focus on offense a little bit more we need your line to score more 5 on 5, Kruger will do more of the heavy lifting defensively.

It is imperative that his line be a dominant 5 on 5 force next year. Can't just have Kane's line scoring 5 on 5. And sorry but Toews goal scoring was down last year. He had what 5 3 on 3 goals? Does anyone know how many 5 on 5 goals he scored? I think that is key. Toews and Co. generating 5 on 5 solves a lot of issues.
- bhawks2241

Umm... This is the same Q that coaches the Blackhawks, right? Never gonna happen.

TBL have only seven forwards signed for next year, with two UFAs and five RFA's to resign this year.

What I would not give to see pending RFA Alex Killorn in the Indianhead....

TBL have only seven forwards signed for next year, with two UFAs and five RFA's to resign this year.

What I would not give to see pending RFA Alex Killorn in the Indianhead....
- Return of the Roar

Killorn is a BEAST. His puck protection is outstanding and he has a good release as well. That short side high snipe against Murray in the ECF...wow. Unless the Bolts re-sign Stammer, IDK how they can let him walk....but yes, that would be

For real . Johns couldnt stop getting walked all post season. Hes a bum. Svedbergs equal at best.
- mrpaulish

He looked overwhelmed by the end of the 2nd round but otherwise was very solid. Ruff had other options but stuck with him. He was doing something right.

Parayko, whom Blues drones have convinced themselves is a future Norris winner, looked even more overwhelmed in the WCF.

I'm not calling Johns Seabs but he would have been a great option at 4-5 this year. Would have made losing Oduya easier to bear. What is really tough to stomach is that a little decisiveness from the front office at this time last year could have prevented the loss of both.

TBL have only seven forwards signed for next year, with two UFAs and five RFA's to resign this year.

What I would not give to see pending RFA Alex Killorn in the Indianhead....
- Return of the Roar

TBL would be nuts to let him walk, especially if Stamkos is gone.

No. Talk about overhyping Johns. He looks nothing like Seabrook except they are of similar size and are decent skaters. At age 24/25 Seabrook had a cup as a top 2 d men and started on Canada's gold-medal team. Johns just got his first taste of the NHL.
- bhawks2241

By today's standards for prospects Seabs was overwhelmed when he got thrown into the fire. Johns was protected, but he held his own positionally, and threw some crushing hits.

Not saying he'll get there but find be a better comparison left in our pipeline.

No, no, and . . . no
- John Jaeckel

Ryan Wilson's blog has a summary of goalie trades from the last several years. He thinks Frolik for Fleury is a fair deal. I think that sounds about right in this market.

Devan Dubnyk to Nashville for Matt Hendricks (Then Dubnyk to MIN for a 3rd round pick)
Cory Schneider for the ninth overall pick (Bo Horvat)
Jonathan Bernier for Ben Scrivens, Matt Frattin, second-rounder
Ben Bishop for Cory Conacher, fourth-rounder
Steve Mason for Michael Leighton, third-rounder
Sergei Bobrovsky for second-rounder, two fourth-rounders
Anders Lindback (and Kyle Wilson) for two second-rounders, one third-rounder and Sebastien Caron
Tomas Vokoun for a seventh-rounder
Semyon Varlamov for first-rounder (Filip Forsberg) and second-rounder
Brian Elliott for Craig Anderson
Dwayne Roloson for Ty Wishart
Jaroslav Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
Kari Lehtonen for Ivan Vishnevskiy and fourth-rounder

Overall, this is what you end up with:
Devan Dubnyk, Cory Schneider, Jonathan Bernier, Ben Bishop, Steve Mason, Sergei Bobrovsky, Anders Lindback, Tomas Vokoun, Semyon Varlamov, Craig Anderson, Dwayne Roloson, Jaroslav Halak and Kari Lehtonen

For:
Matt Hendricks, Ben Scrivens, Matt Frattin, Cory Conacher, Michael Leighton, Sebastien Caron, Brian Elliott, Lars Eller, Ian Schultz, Ivan Vishnevskiy, Ty Wishart, first round pick (Bo Horvat), first round pick (Filip Forsberg), five second-round picks, two third-round picks, four fourth-round picks and a seventh-round pick.

TBL would be nuts to let him walk, especially if Stamkos is gone.
- JRoenick97

In a world where Stamkos is back even at $8MM, that leaves them with less than $10MM to resign the rest of their crew. Killorn is on track for $4-5MM by himself. Now they have $5MM to sign the other five guys....

Just dreaming

So despite your deep rooted experience/scouting acumen and opinion that finding a gem is a "fantasy" (your words not mine) it can, has and will happen again.
- Mr Ricochet

I hope I cleared up the fantasy reference as meaning fanatsy team not you or any poster's fantasy of a goalie addition.

And when a poster suggests looking for one I'll be sure not to cal him/her stupid cuz I know better, but I'm just a fan.
- Mr Ricochet

Not calling anyone stupid, but I do believe it is stupid to believe a successful Euro goalie from Sweden can walk in and take over as an NHL workhorse starter based on one successful year in Sweden. That was what I rea dinto the post, because was not the last coupel pages about sending away Crawford the horse who has played the bulk of the schedule?

You think a Karpisalo, Forseberg, Kasdorf, Pickard, Neuvirth, Griess type deserves a chance?
- Mr Ricochet

Sorry I don't see them as being cpaable long term solutions as NHL starters...

Maybe a "gem" in there playing for the right team that ASSETED their money away from goaltending position, the "Scotty Bowman" template of not needing a top tier goalie?
- Mr Ricochet

You know I have seen people alluding to this "Don't need a top tier goalie...but hanging on Bowman? I dunno. Has he had a better goalie than Crawford? So CC would be his top teir based on what that 6 mil salary?

Certainly StanBo THOUGHT he could win with Cristobal Huet.
I think GMs, coaches they adjust their words to the personal they do have...THEY SIMPLY DON'T FEED the loose ends that may help doubt spring up quicker through the media.

Moving on from that. JJ's blogs since the season ended have asked how much does the goalie matter and indirectly where do you allocate your funds and from there I wondered how many core players can a franchise have (pay) in this dreadful cap system?
- Mr Ricochet

John has stirred this Crawford is the answer to Cap space idea for well over a year.
I think the simplest answer to your question above is you got a John Gibson in the farm, you see relief is coming and you can think about launching your started unless, he has won you some Cups, then you get torn on what to do.
The thing is and Bowman has said it, as soon as you do win, and you truly have stra players that everyone in hockey knows are really good NOW (not in that gonna be great range) you simply HAVE to REWARD them.
I think (and know I wrote less than three years ago) that there might be a CAP jump of 20 million (before the Loonie went kerplunk)...I truly believe the GMs were actually going along and rewarding based on that template and then the track slowed to the present halt and they basically see it now but NEVER saw it coming earlier...because there are more than the Hawks feeling it.

From there and in a snake strangling cap world many ask/suggest/wonder how many core players can be paid, is a goalie one of them, should they move Panarin now cuz he can't be paid as the core is identified, does the core change every 3-4 years and does Panarin replace a core player, if so when is a piece moved.
- Mr Ricochet

Yes a goalie is a crucial piece of that core.
And I totally agree that core gets assessed season by season, but when you are a team in the hunt, identified as a Cup contender, you aren't messing with go you there...but you are assessing with what you want to continue building upon as they just made the decison to do with TT as a boot (so he doesn't Cap you for more on the job training) and a yes to keep Shaw. I would assume this move also helps facilitate attempting a reasonable Panarin signing...but make no bones about the fact if Artemi & his aget over-value him, he will also be sent packing...over Crawford.

I asked if you go with the Scotty Bowman template on goalies do you find one, win a cup, move on from him when he wants paid and find ANOTHER ELC/RFA guy to win another cup and move on from him in 3-4-5 years when he needs paid and find another?
- Mr Ricochet

I think this question is one that gets asked in
Dallas and St.Louis and even Tampa now.
I think Detroit has to answer it as well.
But you do see the difference in those situations, right?
Scott Darling has not played as much or as well as the second guy in most of those situations.

...if a poster suggests something that to me is out of the box thinking (and I don't consider moving Crow out of the box thinking) I ain't gonna tell him he hasn't seen the amount of hockey/juniors/prospect camps/MM tournaments, live, and he/she has no business suggesting such things and that he/she is a mongrel.
- Mr Ricochet

Ok, and now we have gotten to the crux of your post to me...that I have hung somebody out to dry on the board, because they suggested since they are nobody, they no nothing, and I do.
I don't think I did that. If I did please take the time and PM it to me and I will go back to that person and apologize.
and the bottom line on all players and all positions when it comes to newbies and there being able to play:
My answer to friends who ask, Do you think Forsling, or Carlsson, or Michal Kempy are gonna be any good?
I always say, ask me after we see them against NHL players surrounded by NHL players...not now, because more likely the answer is a trite NO.

nice visual and shows who's paid what and that teams that won 5 of the last 7 cups have had elite goalies, won't know if Murray is elite for 3-4-5 years.
- Mr Ricochet

On Murray, do we really know he is an elite goalie? I thought he gifted that last San Jose win to them...
Wait until the other teams video guys pass the footage on and they devise game plans and find the weak parts of hs game even more so.

TBL have only seven forwards signed for next year, with two UFAs and five RFA's to resign this year.

What I would not give to see pending RFA Alex Killorn in the Indianhead....
- Return of the Roar

I like Killorn too, and if Stamkos stays even a Bishop departure (which is kinda a kin to CC departure...except that BB really didn't help his team two post seasons in a row due to injury)..they would be handing the reins to a Russian youngster, and although he is superior to Darling in many many areas, he still would be a chancy move...like a CC downgrade/trade.

Take this for what it's worth, but I am listening to ESPN1000 and Pat Boyle is on with David Kaplan. He was talking about how Malkin wants out of Pittsburgh because of some "issues" he has had with the current management staff and Mario Lemieux, although he did not elaborate any further on that. He mentioned that the Pens are over the cap at this point (not sure if that's true or not) and are willing to deal Malkin but he will only go to a handful of teams. The Hawks are at the top of that list because of his desire to play with Panarin. He was asked what would be going back to Pittsburgh and he mentioned Anisimov and Kruger as the main players in what would obviously be a very complicated deal. I've always liked Boyle as he's one of the few beat guys to call the Hawks out for poor play or for making a bad decision when warranted. That doesn't mean he's right about Malkin, but I still found it interesting he'd even bring this up as a possibility.

One thought with the Ward deal is that I think that rules out Reimer as a potential FA option if you shipped Crawford out. If Ward get's 3.3/yr then Reimer is going to want more than that and he should get it since he was better than Ward. Not big enough of savings to make it worth the risk
- dstainer

Oh, no!

No Reimer!