Darth, based on what you've seen, what is his ceiling? 2nd line center? I recall him saying he wants to model his game after Jonathan Toews.
- 93Joe

I'm no expert, but is say a 2C...like a Toews-lite.

@TSNBobMcKenzie

Cam Ward is on the verge of signing a two-year contract extension with CAR.

I agree
- DarthKane

welcome to the party....been on that side for a long time.......

hawks have very few who go to the net and battle for the "garbage" goals. Teuvo was strickly perimeter who needed to be surrounded by better players then he, to live up to his famed hype.

Again, Bowman sold high......regardless of what some folks may think.

Schwartz for sure. He's probably looking at $5 mil +.
- 93Joe

No doubt

Why the delay in releasing the cap number?
- z1990z

They have to calculate it and then negotiate with the union about the escalator - a difficult negotiation this year, I would think.

welcome to the party....been on that side for a long time.......

hawks have very few who go to the net and battle for the "garbage" goals. Teuvo was strickly perimeter who needed to be surrounded by better players then he, to live up to his famed hype.

Again, Bowman sold high......regardless of what some folks may think.
- SteveRain

Done .... And DONE!

So the next order of biz in salary reduction is to do .... What? Trade Crow for max cap savings? Can't be viewed in a vacuum. Would you trade him for a top 10, plus a prospect? Tough decision.

The sell high mantra can be huge here. How many other teams have a two-time cup winner, cultivated for years in their system and five solid NHL seasons?

They have to calculate it and then negotiate with the union about the escalator - a difficult negotiation this year, I would think.
- StLBravesFan

When was/is the PA escalator vote?

Who is saying, "play better than Crow"? This is simple arithmetic, not very difficult to comprehend.

One scenario is acquiring a goalie, perhaps so with the other team retaining salary.

Another is the draft pick only return, perhaps even a prospect in return as well.

Another could even be a lower level salaried player or players who fill glaring needs here. Though that seems to be less probable.

Bottom line is the numbers as of right now will not work for a cup-challenging team. Time for Stan to make some tough decisions.

And I couldn't care less if the "fans" get in an uproar. Most who would female dog about Crow being moved are Chelsea Dagger dancers anyway.
- blackhawk24

This team's Defensive core, is not what it once was. I think the days of having a legit chance to win a cup without a proven netminder backing them up is not very realistic. So unless you get NHL proven top 4 D man and/or a shutdown C in return, I think it's foolish to trade C2.

Done .... And DONE!

So the next order of biz in salary reduction is to do .... What? Trade Crow for max cap savings? Can't be viewed in a vacuum. Would you trade him for a top 10, plus a prospect? Tough decision.

The sell high mantra can be huge here. How many other teams have a two-time cup winner, cultivated for years in their system and five solid NHL seasons?
- blackhawk24

Believe the PA escalator was voted on when in Chicago during their meetings, or at least talked about and decided what to do. Believe final cap number comes out next week along with the schedule.

I think Corey Crawford has been a great story for this team. We saw brief glimpses of it back in 2007-08, he was a good soldier when Niemi's deal forced his roster spot coming out of camp in 2009-10, and he outplayed and took Turco's job in 2010-11 and has never looked back. He was god awful vs Phoenix, but then sacked up vs Detroit and the rest is history. Regardless of what some may think , I don't dislike CC.

However, in the case of the Hawks look at this organization, the big salaries to core, and then look to each position F,D,G and I see the depth in goal. Darling on a VERY small sample size showed he can be THE guy. How long if they do trade CC before having to deal Darling due to his earnings, that Wiz alludes to, who the hell knows. However, they could have kept Niemi OVER Hammer or even Sharp in 2010 but passed because they had a large, athletic unproven goalie who in glimpses showed he could do it....same with Darling.

I do the deal. If my arithmetic is correct, I believe they are at 64.9 after factoring in Rundlbad's buried money, panarin bonus, scuderi RSA, and moving CC frees up 6 million more and then give Bowman some tools to make waves. Again, the 2 major X factors here IMO are.....1. where does this final cap number END and where does the league see it going in the short term. Small market teams LOVE a stagnant cap, but PA and large market teams want that number to increase. 2. What is Panarin's camp's number TODAY? They have it, and I'll BS on the whole can't negotiate until 7/1. Bowman knows, and that's also a HUGE factor in how they make this work.

Lastly, what I find very interesting....is this.....The Hawks publicly are in a NO win situation. They have the 2010, 2013, 2015 cap hell sell off ghost haunting them, and could they spin losing another YOUNG proven premier top 6 player in Panarin, like Saad before him? The other side, dealing CC will lead to another day of twitter peril and what not, but if Bowman signs 72 all should be foregiven......IMO.....72>50 LONG TERM to this team....especially with the gamble Bowman has made inking his top 3 defenders to LT deals.

This team's Defensive core, is not what it once was. I think the days of having a legit chance to win a cup without a proven netminder backing them up is not very realistic. So unless you get NHL proven top 4 D man and/or a shutdown C in return, I think it's foolish to trade C2.
- Ogilthorpe2

Not sure about this.....Hammer and Seabrook were exhausted after playing lots of hard minutes to pick up slack for Keiths' suspension AND his injury. Especially 7. Factor in pairings with not ready NHL defensemen and you get that crap show we saw all year.

if anything the rest from being bounced will only help 2,4,7 the most IMO. I think they easily could win another cup with 33 in net IF they fix their other holes......1lw, depth scoring, etc.

Time will tell but your best bet to deal high end money on contract comes from depth and the only place they have a viable option for somebody to step in and take a core's spot internally is in net.

This team's Defensive core, is not what it once was. I think the days of having a legit chance to win a cup without a proven netminder backing them up is not very realistic. So unless you get NHL proven top 4 D man and/or a shutdown C in return, I think it's foolish to trade C2.
- Ogilthorpe2

Perhaps I should have added to this post trading CC is not the only move.

It's intuitively obvious to all of us here the 4D-6D positions need a big upgrade.

This is exactly the kind of deal both teams were needing to make.

Canes needed to fill a roster spot with a big guy on the 4th line, pick up some salary to get closer to the cap floor, and added a solid middle-six forward with good upside without giving up any current prospects.

On the flipside, the Hawks make some badly needed cap-space and pick up a couple mediocre draft picks in the process.

Losing TT probably stings a little, but it's not a deathblow by any means.

For the Canes, TT is a nice fit for a 2nd/3rd line role. I think the expectations for him are going to be not as high as they were in Chicago. Canes just need him to be a 45(ish) point guy as offense will get done by committee again this year.

His age and nationality will be a good fit too, as he can help Sebastian Aho and Aleksi Saarela with the transition to North America.

Canes now have:

Jeff Skinner, Justin Faulk, Joakim Nordstrom, - 24 Years Old

Phil Di Giuseppe, Victor Rask, Ryan Murphy - 23 Years Old

Elias Lindholm, Teuvo Teravainen, Jacob Slavin, Brett Pesce - 22 Years Old

Noah Hanifin, Sebastian Aho - 19 Years old

They have to calculate it and then negotiate with the union about the escalator - a difficult negotiation this year, I would think.
- StLBravesFan

I agree but I think they either met in Chicago last week or later this week. Can't recall. At that meeting, the reps will find out what the deal is and relay that on.

I think that escalator happens. Again, until there is a majority of LT deals, which will never happen for obvious reasons, then the PA is inclined to vote on escalator even if top guys lose money. They need the 2nd, 3rd, 4th tiers to maximize salaries and raise comparables for future deals.

Again, not pro union, but the owners absolutely smoked Donald Fehr on this deal. I don't see how they didn't. They got a roll back on cap number. They got term limits lowered, avoiding dead money, small market teams won huge on many levels, and the PA is sagain always left holding the bag to raise the cap as magically Bettmans proposed projections rarely pan out and are always lower.......

The storm of a major work stoppage has to be coming. Can't see any way around it, and if you look at all the big guy deals, many are taking SIGNING bonuses as that still gets paid even if work stoppage happens. That's the great adjustment agents and players have made.....

I may have already been mentioned here, but I think Bowman did well to sign Panik to even less than he was already making. Shaving 100k off here and there helps.

Believe the PA escalator was voted on when in Chicago during their meetings, or at least talked about and decided what to do. Believe final cap number comes out next week along with the schedule.

I think Corey Crawford has been a great story for this team. We saw brief glimpses of it back in 2007-08, he was a good soldier when Niemi's deal forced his roster spot coming out of camp in 2009-10, and he outplayed and took Turco's job in 2010-11 and has never looked back. He was god awful vs Phoenix, but then sacked up vs Detroit and the rest is history. Regardless of what some may think , I don't dislike CC.

However, in the case of the Hawks look at this organization, the big salaries to core, and then look to each position F,D,G and I see the depth in goal. Darling on a VERY small sample size showed he can be THE guy. How long if they do trade CC before having to deal Darling due to his earnings, that Wiz alludes to, who the hell knows. However, they could have kept Niemi OVER Hammer or even Sharp in 2010 but passed because they had a large, athletic unproven goalie who in glimpses showed he could do it....same with Darling.

I do the deal. If my arithmetic is correct, I believe they are at 64.9 after factoring in Rundlbad's buried money, panarin bonus, scuderi RSA, and moving CC frees up 6 million more and then give Bowman some tools to make waves. Again, the 2 major X factors here IMO are.....1. where does this final cap number END and where does the league see it going in the short term. Small market teams LOVE a stagnant cap, but PA and large market teams want that number to increase. 2. What is Panarin's camp's number TODAY? They have it, and I'll BS on the whole can't negotiate until 7/1. Bowman knows, and that's also a HUGE factor in how they make this work.

Lastly, what I find very interesting....is this.....The Hawks publicly are in a NO win situation. They have the 2010, 2013, 2015 cap hell sell off ghost haunting them, and could they spin losing another YOUNG proven premier top 6 player in Panarin, like Saad before him? The other side, dealing CC will lead to another day of twitter peril and what not, but if Bowman signs 72 all should be foregiven......IMO.....72>50 LONG TERM to this team....especially with the gamble Bowman has made inking his top 3 defenders to LT deals.
- SteveRain

I think this is very well said here. CC was arguably this team's MVP this year (no disrespect to Kane) but as a GM you have make some tough decisions.

To me this is more a question of trying to keep the Cup window open for as long as they can by using the $ to bolster the F and D (and downgrading in net, to what degree is undetermined) vs. having a better goalie for next season at the expense of continued cap issues for the other 20 slots on the roster in 2017-18 and onwards.

Are the Hawks better off slightly downgrading in net and using that $ saved to bolster the F and D? Or are they better off with an all-star level goaltender but a lot of ELC and spare parts filling out the F and D? That's the million dollar question. The more and more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that the best course of action is to sell high on CC and use that money elsewhere in the lineup. It might hurt next season and the Hawks may be hunting for a G if Darling can't handle the pressure, but that $6M could definitely help bolster this squad up front and on the blue line.

Speaking for myself, I don't want him gone. But based on what I have heard and—again—doing the math, it might become necessary.

Value for value, no, he is probably worth more than a 10-15 pick. But if they have to deal him, it won't be about value for value, it will be about getting rid of the contract.

I know, you think it's stupid. But again,

I want to hear the magic formula that allows them to upgrade a couple of positions and clear the space to extend Panarin at over $5 million per. Yes, yesterday helped, but likely all it does is allow them to retain an existing asset, not acquire any better ones.

The ONLY thing I have heard that starts to make some sense is a (longshot most likely) run at Jimmy Vesey.

After that, you have a choice, hold on to all your sacred cows (because there so fricking amazingly awesome!) and a make a slow slide back to the middle of the pack like Detroit has, or make some hard choices.
- John Jaeckel

If Panarin puts up 70ish points again then he commands Tarasenko money IMO.

Maybe if they get a mid season deal done they can get for less but I think 7 million for 5 years minimum is what you got there.

One of Crow or Seabrook is probably outzo in the next year. Ummmm since they don't have a replacement in the pipe anymore it is probably Crow since they chased that giant from Europe. Whatever. Only so many dollars to go around.

I think scoring goals and maintaining pressure is more important than preventing goals in today's NHL. If it is a boring summer rather than an "interesting one" i think the Hawks are going to have problems again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ates_cities_by_population

There's a little bit of difference in city size.....
- cap1681

City size or fan base? If you think city size has anything to do with it, the Green Bay Packers say otherwise.

welcome to the party....been on that side for a long time.......

hawks have very few who go to the net and battle for the "garbage" goals. Teuvo was strickly perimeter who needed to be surrounded by better players then he, to live up to his famed hype.

Again, Bowman sold high......regardless of what some folks may think.
- SteveRain

I'm a TT fan...but when it comes down to Shaw vs Teuvo, I'll take Shaw every time.

No, it means another team who feels that goalie is very replaceable is going to let that guy go, and you know what? No matter what his pay is, he is gonna want CC salary to be the guy too.

1 Lundqvist 8.5
2 Bobrovsky 7.4
3 Rinne 7
4 Rask 7
5 Carey Price 6.5
6 Cam Ward 6.3
7 Ryan Miller 6
8 Coery Crawfor 6
9 Cory Schneider 6
10 Ben Bishop 5.95
11 Kari Lehtonen 5.9
12 Semyon Varlamov 5.9
13 Quick 5.8
14 M A Fleury 5.75
15 Mike Smith 5.7
So...from here on a Crawford departure says you a million or more - but
is the one good one in the group up for trade and are the rest going ot keep y21 ou in games?
16 Jimmy Howard 4.533
17 Roberto Luongo 4533. I'll say it but this guys salary/skill is now balanced right
18 Jaroslav Halak 4.5 (didn't see as a regualr as far back as Montreal)
19 Antti Niemi 4.5 (How'd that work oput for the Stars?)
20 Devan Dubnyk 4.333 and not worth any penny of it!
21 Craig Anderson 4.2 he's your guy expect a shared gaol and plenty of streaky results...and is he really available?
22. Cam Talbot 4.166
23 Bernier 4.15
24 Mason Who they are keeping 4.1

so we could have a teo million savings starting with 20th overalll highest salaried guy.! What a savings and the
- wiz1901net only suffers minimally...
25 Ondrej Pavelec 3.9 he your fantasy backup/ DOUBT IT 3.9
Martin Jones is NOT asking for a trade, either is Brian Elliot or the kid.
Michal Neuvirth the answer? Then I gotta know the long term question...


30 teams and everyone thinks there our some hidden gems who can play 50 games better than Corey Crawford

I'm sure you understand there are times your thoughts aren't easily followed and the bolded is one of those times, what does it mean? Is it that 98% here should thank you for posting at a fan blog to enlighten those not in your league but not to engage? No red font intended.

Moving on from there do you see any prospects live or is it all video work? Of course you're a scout and I'm not but I was there with 50 others before the Hawks ever won a cup at the 2009 prospect camp and saw Niemi at one end duel Crawford at the other, Palmer from Ohio State was there as well and I liked his game. Got my eyes on Makarov, Aliu, Lalonde in real time.

Was asked who I thought was the better goalie was and said long term IMO Crawford. For as raw as his game was he had a lot less movement in his game as Niemi had a very active style even though he wowed the place 8-9-10 times with off the charts athletic saves.

That year Niemi won the cup!! The year before Niemi was an unknown in Finland, much like Salak, Raanta, Johansson, to a lesser extent Sergei Bobrovsky all undrafted players brought in to see if a "gem" (your words not mine) could be found. Some hit most don't but the miniscule list shows indeeeeed there are gems to be found, cup WINNERS in fact. ........ So despite your deep rooted experience/scouting acumen and opinion that finding a gem is a "fantasy" (your words not mine) it can, has and will happen again. And when a poster suggests looking for one I'll be sure not to cal him/her stupid cuz I know better, but I'm just a fan.

You think a Karpisalo, Forseberg, Kasdorf, Pickard, Neuvirth, Griess type deserves a chance? Maybe a "gem" in there playing for the right team that ASSETED their money away from goaltending position, the "Scotty Bowman" template of not needing a top tier goalie?

Moving on from that. JJ's blogs since the season ended have asked how much does the goalie matter and indirectly where do you allocate your funds and from there I wondered how many core players can a franchise have (pay) in this dreadful cap system?

From there and in a snake strangling cap world many ask/suggest/wonder how many core players can be paid, is a goalie one of them, should they move Panarin now cuz he can't be paid as the core is identified, does the core change every 3-4 years and does Panarin replace a core player, if so when is a piece moved.

I asked if you go with the Scotty Bowman template on goalies do you find one, win a cup, move on from him when he wants paid and find ANOTHER ELC/RFA guy to win another cup and move on from him in 3-4-5 years when he needs paid and find another? Posted this waaaaay before your above post.

Point I'd make is there are many ways to skin a cat, the cap is dreadful, NOTHING is out of the question (asset allocation, core identification, number of core players) and if a poster suggests something that to me is out of the box thinking (and I don't consider moving Crow out of the box thinking) I ain't gonna tell him he hasn't seen the amount of hockey/juniors/prospect camps/MM tournaments, live, and he/she has no business suggesting such things and that he/she is a mongrel.

By the way nice work on the goalie salaries. For those who don't look for them it's a nice visual and shows who's paid what and that teams that won 5 of the last 7 cups have had elite goalies, won't know if Murray is elite for 3-4-5 years.

I think this is very well said here. CC was arguably this team's MVP this year (no disrespect to Kane) but as a GM you have make some tough decisions.

To me this is more a question of trying to keep the Cup window open for as long as they can by using the $ to bolster the F and D (and downgrading in net, to what degree is undetermined) vs. having a better goalie for next season at the expense of continued cap issues for the other 20 slots on the roster in 2017-18 and onwards.

Are the Hawks better off slightly downgrading in net and using that $ saved to bolster the F and D? Or are they better off with an all-star level goaltender but a lot of ELC and spare parts filling out the F and D? That's the million dollar question. The more and more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that the best course of action is to sell high on CC and use that money elsewhere in the lineup. It might hurt next season and the Hawks may be hunting for a G if Darling can't handle the pressure, but that $6M could definitely help bolster this squad up front and on the blue line.
- Hawksfan37

Thanks even a blind squirrel finds a nut.......

Agreed to your point, and you could upgrade to a cheap veteran come March if you have to. History shows us the Hawks win with a lot of depth upfront and on the blue line.

This team's Defensive core, is not what it once was. I think the days of having a legit chance to win a cup without a proven netminder backing them up is not very realistic. So unless you get NHL proven top 4 D man and/or a shutdown C in return, I think it's foolish to trade C2.
- Ogilthorpe2

I agree and would be more inclined to trade Seabrook before Crawford. If people think it's a cake walk to find a Matt Murray they are nuts. Without Crawford this year the Hawks miss the playoffs.

NHL Radio Interview-Bickell-TT and the Blackhawks model...
http://chirb.it/9pBmt2
@AlCimaglia

JJ, I'm with you, it's a foregone conclusion that Crow is gone. Too many goalies signed already and they need the $$$$ elsewhere, particularly D depth and and LW.

I'm just getting having trouble picking out who else would have to go beyond Crawford.

To avoid reasons mentioned for several blogs, the have significant roadblocks or don't create cap savings by moving: Hossa, Keith, Hammer, Seabrook, Toews, Kane, Kruger.

The following could get a healthy return and have fewer obstacles to moving:
Shaw, AA, Panarin, some combination of Hogs

What "sacred cows" are people wrong for assuming that the Hawks will not trade?
- phantasmo

Let me be crystal clear: I'm not saying that. In fact, I'd say it's 55-45 or 60-40 he's staying.

All that said, the cap situation is more serious to the Hawks right now than a lot of fans are willing to accept. And even the $1 million to $2 million at issue in where the cap settles, apparently, is going to guide some of their decision-making.

They're thinking two years out because they have to. I don't think they want to deal Crawford—at all.

I think however, as with anything, it's a cost-value trade-off. Is Corey Crawford worth $6 million a year in terms of the market for NHL goalies? Absolutely. Just as a high-end Mercedes Benz is with $80,000. The issue is, can an individual (team) afford that Mercedes, along with a high-end Lexus, a Lamborghini, a Range Rover, etc?

The other issue therefore is why is everyone dancing in the streets over devoting a greater proportion of the cap to an admittedly good player like Shaw—who is probably topped out in terms of upside and has a bad back?

Again, you can't ignore the key parts of the picture: how do you retain key players (Shaw and Panarin primarily), ADD the players you were missing last year (a top 6 LW, ASSUMING Kempny is that Oduya 2.0 the team missed last year), and maintain some control and cap continuity going forward.

Maybe the cap rises enough that ALL those things become achievable, including possibly the signing of a Jimmy Vesey.

Maybe not, then you have to look at another cost-value tradeoff, if someone gives me a 1st rounder or a serviceable, lesser paid goalie in return for Crawford, what other opportunities does that chunk of cap space create.

The other thing is, I wouldn't rush to plug Vesey, much less Tyler Motte in at 1LW. Maybe Vesey could be an answer there this year. Motte likely needs a year in the Rock.

Sorry guys, there are no easy answers here—unless the cap goes up a bit and they can entice Vesey.

I agree and would be more inclined to trade Seabrook before Crawford. If people think it's a cake walk to find a Matt Murray they are nuts. Without Crawford this year the Hawks miss the playoffs.
- Colbyboy

Last I heard on that (last week I believe). "Not happening."

If Panarin puts up 70ish points again then he commands Tarasenko money IMO.

Maybe if they get a mid season deal done they can get for less but I think 7 million for 5 years minimum is what you got there.

One of Crow or Seabrook is probably outzo in the next year. Ummmm since they don't have a replacement in the pipe anymore it is probably Crow since they chased that giant from Europe. Whatever. Only so many dollars to go around.

I think scoring goals and maintaining pressure is more important than preventing goals in today's NHL. If it is a boring summer rather than an "interesting one" i think the Hawks are going to have problems again.
- fattybeef

Well said, and like 19/88 a few years back, there will be NO hometown discount for the Hawks with 72 and why should there be? Because he played 1 year in the NHL with them.

To your point, what nobody in the press is talking about, surprise-surprise....If Panarin has a similar year, probable as long as 88 is healthy and 72 doesn't regress (doubtful given his pending free agency), on the 2017-18 books, not only will you get his massive AAV number but you also will be getting his bonus overage....again. So if he gets 6-7 million, very possible, his actual cap hit to the team as a whole is closer to 8-9 million with his bonus and that is WHY as you said somebody will be going, or else 72 isn't coming back. It's that simple.

Like you I am hopeful for an interesting summer..

I know I come off as a Bowman hater, but I dont' envy his position right now. He made a great deal yesterday. However, he's still so far from the mountain top it's scary. You want to talk about franchise altering moves....hes got to make HUGE calls to fit pieces in.

you know, the other variable here is....Hossa. would they go to him on a wink-wink basis and ask him where he wants to go next summer and make it happen as long as he plays out his deal? While his cap hit is north of 5million HIS ACTUAL salary is only 1 million starting then to the duration and wouldn't be hard to move.