Good post and congrats on your cup........ Indeed each roster has two top talents and when yours were signed they were at the top of the league in pay and took a few years to show some "value" as compared to other salaries. In other words salaries caught up to Malkin and Crosby.

It will take awhile but Kane and Toews' numbers will look better in 2-3 years but IMO the Hawks have better and deeper talent than does the Pens. More expensive yes but lets swap out Keith-Letang and Kessel-Panarin and the Pens don't have a Seabs/Hajlmersson/Hossa. Having said that the Hawks don't have the flexibility that the Pens do either and we saw what that did from them from last offseason to the TDL.
- Mr Ricochet

Appreciate the congratulations - it's been amazing since 2009 to see the two teams I root for win 5 cups. I had hawks season tickets up until the season before the lockout so there were a ton of years where both the teams were pathetic.

Agreed completely that Kane and Toews' contracts will look better in 3 years or so, as long as the cap goes up like it tends to do. You just suffer a little in the first few years of it. I tend to disagree a little on the depth comparison. Let's say Toews/Kane/Bread Man/Keith wash with Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang. Seabs and Hammer account for 11 million against the cap, while Maatta/Doumolin account for about 6 mil. While Seabs is the best of the bunch, I don't know that there is a 5 mil gap in talent. Dumo is showing that he has, at worst, top 4 potential. Hossa is a fantastic 200ft player, but will be 38 at the beginning of the season and is signed through 2021 for over 5.25/yr and is showing signs of slowing down. I personally wouldn't want that contract since he can't retire without it still counting. While not playing such a complete game as Hossa, I think Hornqvist provides a similar skillset and what he lacks a little in defense he can make up with in points and physicality.

In the end, I think the two teams are built very well to be competitive for the near future, but are built using two completely different styles. As long as Toews and Kane are in their prime the Hawks are going to be a force in the West no matter who they surround them with. I'm thrilled with the young depth that came up this year to help the Pens, and they still have 3 really solid forwards on ELC waiting to compete for a spot next year. I'm just trying to enjoy this run because it will probably be the best stretch of hockey concurrently for these two teams in my lifetime.

Can Tyler Motte play LW??
- z1990z

Yup, he did for 32 goals at the University of Michigan....

Personally i'd move Panarin to 1LW and acquire Jimmy Vesey play him at 2LW and see if Schmaltz is ready to sign if so give him a shot at center in the bottom six.
- Dabearshawks

Where ya been, DBH?

Shaw? No he is not. Q had him centering Saad and Kane in '14. He can play on any line and can play center when needed. Provides much needed PP net front presence. Takes a few dumb penalties sure but there is no one in the Rock that can do all of that. Good like finding someone via FA, wouldn't be cheap and likely would take two bottom 6 guys to replace all of Shaws versatility. He looked to improve his skating last season too as he seemed to have a bit more burst.
- bhawks2241

Yea he did. It looked to me from day 1 the kid put some time in as his quickness (first 2 steps) noticeably improved. That knack of his for tips and deflections above the crease improved as well.

This kid checks sooooo many boxes.

Well just got to computer.

I got the update on my phone, and completly hated it, not so much because of the players, but even though I know I should, I can never get past what Stan has traded, and what he has gotten back.

Reading all the pages, seems like most here are happy with it though.

I will try and hold out to the start of camp assuming more deals are in the works, and judge the complete picture.

Same height as Raanta and only an inch under Lundqvist
- Dabearshawks

You dare compare Lars Johansson to Lundqvist...oh my!


He is not big enough to take over as a contending clubs top guy, period.

Maybe in four years he proves me wrong, but check your reality...he had a nice year in Sweden so did another goalie the hawks acquired by way of the Frolik trade, goaltender Alexander Salák, he took the NHL by storm...after very successful seasons in Sweden.

and Raanta isn't and never will be a mule starter for an NHL club so you didn't come up with a comparable NHL starting netminder to bolster your size isn't a factor argument. Matt Murray 6 4 a third round North American game developed, not late blooming Swedish league phenom. That is the standard now.

And since I took a shot at Daley, i might as well send one TT way:
He made Eric Daze not look like a wussy. At least when someone slamed Daze's big arse, and he did nothing to retailiate,but take it, at least Daze' fat arse was an anchor to keep him from ending up on his side or knees where TT seemed to be most of the seven playoff games.

Appreciate the congratulations - it's been amazing since 2009 to see the two teams I root for win 5 cups. I had hawks season tickets up until the season before the lockout so there were a ton of years where both the teams were pathetic.

Agreed completely that Kane and Toews' contracts will look better in 3 years or so, as long as the cap goes up like it tends to do. You just suffer a little in the first few years of it. I tend to disagree a little on the depth comparison. Let's say Toews/Kane/Bread Man/Keith wash with Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Letang. Seabs and Hammer account for 11 million against the cap, while Maatta/Doumolin account for about 6 mil. While Seabs is the best of the bunch, I don't know that there is a 5 mil gap in talent. Dumo is showing that he has, at worst, top 4 potential. Hossa is a fantastic 200ft player, but will be 38 at the beginning of the season and is signed through 2021 for over 5.25/yr and is showing signs of slowing down. I personally wouldn't want that contract since he can't retire without it still counting. While not playing such a complete game as Hossa, I think Hornqvist provides a similar skillset and what he lacks a little in defense he can make up with in points and physicality.

In the end, I think the two teams are built very well to be competitive for the near future, but are built using two completely different styles. As long as Toews and Kane are in their prime the Hawks are going to be a force in the West no matter who they surround them with. I'm thrilled with the young depth that came up this year to help the Pens, and they still have 3 really solid forwards on ELC waiting to compete for a spot next year. I'm just trying to enjoy this run because it will probably be the best stretch of hockey concurrently for these two teams in my lifetime.
- mw630

I think you have to admit you guys played with fire on the backend and maybe caught lightning in a bottle this year on that account. IMO Daley is a 2nd rotation guy (solid #4) and with him out I saw the Pens as Letang and a group of 4-5-6-7 Dmen. I like Maatta but at this stage he's a #4. Liked Lovejoy even before the playoffs and at best he's a #4 and a high end 3rd rotation guy. Pouliat is a smooth guy, some skill and hands but at this point not in Hammer or Seabs league.

I compare Hornqvist more to Shaw than Hossa. Skating top 6 his whole career he's been a gritty high volume shot mid 50 point guy. Shaw adds the same grit, but can play center and has never had a season in the top 6. .....Agreed Hornqvist is more skilled/bigger buy IMO Shaw checks as many boxes.

Who knows how the cap will change as far as exemptions dealing with the Hossa's of the league but IMO this guy would be an upper tier 3RW for 3-4-5 more years. Not quite a Jagr but a freak in his own right.

Yup, he did for 32 goals at the University of Michigan....
- wiz1901

Is he anywhere close to being NHL ready?

For those with Sirius XM I will be on NHL Radio tomorrow morning at 9:15 CST.

How do you feel about Ladd?
- eggsegan

Ladd is by far better than Shaw. As JR has said, Ladd is very good (not excellent)
in terms of everything. Checking, scoring, passing, in front of net, leadership, etc.
I tend to believe being in Cup winner player, Shaw is being overevaluated. He is still 180 lb overachiever and is replaceable. His trade value is at its peak...We can get some quality player or draft choices.

The window is wide open these next few years. The time to win is now. Shaw is more valuable than TT to this team now, and I don't believe he's as replaceable as many seem to think.
- Ogilthorpe2

Nobody is saying Shaw is more valuable than TT. I agree would most of the posters that TT may get his points during regular season, but I'm skeptical that he can hold up against the elite players despite whether he puts on extra 20 lbs and muscles. He looks too clean cut to be a grinder... What I am saying is that Shaw's trade value is at all time high...He had the luxury of being a Blackhawk and Stanley Cup Champion and he is imo being overevaluated by many teams including coach Q.

Is he anywhere close to being NHL ready?
- z1990z

Se don't know that until they all lace them up...Rememebr last year Marko Dano was shoo-in as the top line wing here...before we saw he wasn't.

I know one thing in other looks with vets Motte is a midget who looks like plays like and is as tough as an NHLer.

Oh and by "looks like", I didn't mean his photo...because most look like he is 16 !

Islanders need a big time goalie...Issue is they have a lot cap space tied up in Halak who won't be easy to deal. Halak is often hurt and seemingly always at a crucial time.
- Al

Halak only has 2 years left on his deal. He is movable. Particularly with expansion.

The problem with trading Crow is that it also appears Fleury, Bishop, Elliott and Anderson are available. None are as clutch as Crow IMO but some are younger and cheaper. Buyers market on goalies.

This x1000.

In the STL series, Teuvo had an assist against one of the nastiest teams in the league. In those same 7 games, Shaw had 4 goals and 2 assists, and this was after being suspended for one game. When the going gets tough (read: the playoffs), Teuvo disappears, yet Shaw gets going.

They sold high on Teuvo. That's excellent.
- DMChi2010

Yep. I'm willing to gamble that TT would not improve enough that he would bring a 2nd and 3rd next year not counting it got Bickells hit gone. Not counting the money found will go towards Shaw or Panarin which seems like a sure thing as compared to whatever the hell TT will develop into, or not.

I agree with Rick too. TT will be a much better fantasy league player in the same way Toews is a much better real life player than in fantasy.

Ok, lets not even take into account that AA came back for Saad and Dano was used to get Ladd for a cup run.

I'm now on record as loving the TT/Bickell to CAR thing but forgot to mention what I may like most about it is that StanBowPops&McD seemingly has learned from last year's Saad/Sharp deals, what you are posting about.

No foolin around, no trying to gouge the other guys eyes out in a deal, no waiting for the very best deal of all time to come knockin at your door while the league makes 37 moves as I wait. Move the cap hit, trust my scouts' evaluation on TT and put it in my pocket NOW.

No grand slam, hit a double if the outfielder misses the cutoff man I use my speed to get to 3rd and if they over throw him I go home for an inside the parker. At the very least I have a stand up double and am playing fundamental ball and not trying to reinvent the sport. ....My organization is resourced, great scouting, great coaching, great core. I don't need grand slams I need stand up double after stand up double. No swings and misses (Sharp deal), fundamental ball (TT/Bickell deal).

Point is I think from seeing this move, the timing of it, the context of it, that StanBowPops&McD have learned a thing or two in what is a moving target game, the hard cap and what will it be year to year.
- Mr Ricochet

This is one trade. I will reserve judgement on whether this is a change in direction after a few more. I also cannot forget that making this same decision last off season BEFORE the draft most likely would have extended this team's window. Right now, this front office is playing catch up.

Ladd is by far better than Shaw. As JR has said, Ladd is very good (not excellent)
in terms of everything. Checking, scoring, passing, in front of net, leadership, etc.
I tend to believe being in Cup winner player, Shaw is being overevaluated. He is still 180 lb overachiever and is replaceable. His trade value is at its peak...We can get some quality player or draft choices.
- shidler

The only I agree to in your opinion is Shaw's value is probably very high...that's because he does stuff that most have no inkling to do night after night, including Ladd.

I must have miss seeing the Ladd some of you saw in that St. Louis series...a gola and assiste 16 minutes of undiscipline pims, three or so blocks...
shaw took 13 shots and score four goals

Is Kaner going to Pittsburgh for Malkin?
- eggsegan

Congrats on your Cup victory. Oh wait. Your owner just thought beating Chicago was the Stanley Cup.

Losing both your assistants and naming Yeo coach? That should be quite the locker room next year.... Very player friendly.

Why don't you head back to discuss it with Antilles and GErk after they get their new Reaves jersey and lingerie?

The downside of living on the west coast and working is that I don't get to comment until after 9 PM central time. Oh well.

I'm a big fan of this trade. TT wasn't going to do anything here and dumping Bickel's contract is a huge relief.

I hope TT figures it out and uses his ice time in Carolina to develop into his full potential. But Chicago wants to win cups, not develop players, and it is really hard to play a prospect when he isn't productive enough.

My only regret is that they couldn't have traded TT for Hamhuis at the deadline, he would have helped a lot in the playoffs.

Halak only has 2 years left on his deal. He is movable. Particularly with expansion.

The problem with trading Crow is that it also appears Fleury, Bishop, Elliott and Anderson are available. None are as clutch as Crow IMO but some are younger and cheaper. Buyers market on goalies.
- tredbrta

Halak is not going anywhere without taking back a good chunk of salary...They are stuck with him otherwise. He's 31 and played only 36 games last season, injury prone imo, and his cap hit is $4.5 mill...Not easy to move at all.

The problem with trading Crawford is no one takes on $6 million dollar goalie salaries except Dale Tallon and he doesn't have a checkbook any longer. Plus there are younger cheaper guys that could be on the move too plus those you mentioned and more.

How do you feel about Ladd?
- eggsegan

Ladd is a UFA. A shame to lose him but then - it isn't the same as losing your top 2 playoff performers.

How do you feel about Brouwer and Backes?

Definitely the Hawks would have to be desperate to take a pick in the 10-15 and ONLY that!

Besides the defenseman Fabbro and Bean who LOOK like they can develop into solid NHLers, after the giant developmental forward Logan Brown goes off the board, the draft starts its 4th tier already at 10-11...even though I have Jacob Chychrun laugishing in slot 12, he will be gone before 11 too.

Sure there looks like some nice forwards who might score in the NHL but things start getting suspect, and I am not the Hawks chief scout, but trading Crawford for a pick?

You cleared Cap, but flushed...and started your rebuild now.
Go out an spent on a UFA goalie...has that worked for anybody yet???? (is Jimmy Howard?)
I hope that pick doesn't decide to go to college and play four years and sign elsewhere.
The forwards I have slotted at 11 on Clayton Keller (Boston U) Tyler Jost (North Dakota), Keiffer Bellows (Boston U) are going to school
So do the hawks pick a guy not going to college, just as insurance, to take away that option?

So...the vocal majority that wants Crawford gone must either think
a)Darling is a horse who can play 50 games and the playoffs and start absorbing pucks to his pads instead of not controlling their whereabouts, or
b)you think that somebodys is giving you the next Martin Jones, or
c) Antti Raanta's cousin can come in and do it,
or d)some team actually let a REAL starter go UFA.
- wiz1901

Vocal majority? Admit I don't read every page of every blog but I don't see the "vocal" majority you speak of....... And for those who consider the possibility of moving Crow I wouldn't consider them mongrels either.

IF Crow were moved doesn't mean darling is the #1.

I think you have to admit you guys played with fire on the backend and maybe caught lightning in a bottle this year on that account. IMO Daley is a 2nd rotation guy (solid #4) and with him out I saw the Pens as Letang and a group of 4-5-6-7 Dmen. I like Maatta but at this stage he's a #4. Liked Lovejoy even before the playoffs and at best he's a #4 and a high end 3rd rotation guy. Pouliat is a smooth guy, some skill and hands but at this point not in Hammer or Seabs league.

I compare Hornqvist more to Shaw than Hossa. Skating top 6 his whole career he's been a gritty high volume shot mid 50 point guy. Shaw adds the same grit, but can play center and has never had a season in the top 6. .....Agreed Hornqvist is more skilled/bigger buy IMO Shaw checks as many boxes.

Who knows how the cap will change as far as exemptions dealing with the Hossa's of the league but IMO this guy would be an upper tier 3RW for 3-4-5 more years. Not quite a Jagr but a freak in his own right.
- Mr Ricochet

I would agree they did catch some lightning in a bottle this year, but I think that's the case with just about any team that wins the cup. The Pens played a great team defense with the forwards backchecking and blocking an ungodly amount of shots (2 total shots made it on goal for the sharks in 3rd period of the SCF game 6, 1 of those shots was in the last minute after they were down 2 goals)

I think you're selling a little low on Dumo and Maatta. Dumo just hit 24 and has been playing at worst #3 quality D for the last 18 months. He has gotten better and better with more ice time. I believe his ceiling is a #2 (how Paul Martin compliments Brent Burns), but he could ultimately end up as an upper level #3 like hammer. Maatta is a bit of mixed bag. He was phenomenal his rookie year and then got hit with cancer, two major shoulder issues (came back too early from the first), and then a freak accident getting checked into an open door in the boards messing up his kidney which caused him to lose a step this year. He's still only 21 and has at least the upside of Dumo if these injuries aren't an indication of what will happen in the future. Daley is a solid #4 in the system the Pens play. Lovejoy played well but is gone and Cole is a dime a dozen defender. Trading Fleury will free up almost 6 mil to fill out the defense for next year. There is also the potential of Scuderi retiring (frees up 1.25 mil) and potential trade of Kunitz will free up 3.5. I think they have the money to get another top 4 and will have a competent D rolling Letang - Dumo, Maatta - Daley, Cole - Pouliout and then a potential top 4 guy signed with the cap space moving Maatta or Daley down if they scuffle.

The hawks have the advantage in the top 3 with Keith, Seabs and Hammer vs Letang, Dumo, Maatta but I'd take Daley, Cole, Pouliot + the potential FA signing over TVR, Rosival, Runblad or Svedberg. Overall strength of the entire defense is very similar. The losses of Leddy and Oduya have been difficult to replace. But that is life in the salary cap era. I don't know that any team has handled it better than the hawks with the amount of turnover they've had since 2010.

I hope you're right about the longevity of Hossa - I really like the game he plays. There are just so few players like Jagr (none that I can think of) that I think the odds are against him. Jagr is the biggest workout freak in the NHL and sleeps with 21 year old models to keep him young

A 10-15 pick is only enough if they were desperate...I think there isn't much need to do anything drastic after today's deal.
- Al

If they dealt Crow tomorrow with all the goalies on the market, we know the names by now, signed goalies, UFA's and RFA's what do you think is fair market value for Crow and his 6 mil hit? .........In real time with the Hawks out of cap hell for the "moment".

I was listening to Andy Strickland the other day ...

Have to wonder where Brouwer and Backes end up.