My main source agrees with you, thinks it's a big win for Stan.

Interesting side note: Hawks not shopping Crawford but are getting calls from "multiple teams" on him. Market appears to be a first round draft pick. Salary cap will determine what moves are next.

Ladd returning is still a possibility, but not very likely "at this point."
- John Jaeckel

Wouldn't even listen unless its Matthews or Laine.

Buffalo traded a 1st round pick last year for a goalie who played very well despite his lack of fitness due to concussion the prior year. I don't see them looking at Crawford at all anymore.
- stashu

Correct.

Toronto and Buffalo have 23 picks total in this year's draft so they have some currency to spend.

I doubt very much Cro gets moved, but if the Islanders are seriously interested in winning they should be sniffing around because they will never ever win with Halak.
- RickJ

I will just tell you, teams are calling and they are offering (single) first round picks. Source has been right on many things.

My main source agrees with you, thinks it's a big win for Stan.

Interesting side note: Hawks not shopping Crawford but are getting calls from "multiple teams" on him. Market appears to be a first round draft pick. Salary cap will determine what moves are next.

Ladd returning is still a possibility, but not very likely "at this point."
- John Jaeckel

Any word if Stan wants to resign Fleischman? If we don't add any more experience, the bottom 6 could be rough.

I will just tell you, teams are calling and they are offering (single) first round picks. Source has been right on many things.
- John Jaeckel

Roster still needs help. Robbing Peter to pay Paul but we still need help on the wing and on D.

JJ --

How does this trade play into your sources knowledge and what information he passed along? Not looking for specifics, but does it nullify what you heard or make it more possible?

Inquiring minds want to know...
- CanOCorn

They wanted to clear cap space, surprising names might get moved. That's what i was told. I think that's what happened.

I PERSONALLY felt they would not deal TT to get Bickell moved, but I have since heard that even i had overvalued TT vis a vis what the Hawks—especially Q—thought.

No way stanbow wanted to move TT...they gave him 3-4 years and he was stan's prized number 1. Without this vice of cap crunching them and 72's explosion on the scene; TT is still here.

But so it goes in Bettmans NHL where championship teams have to sell assets year after year...

1. His lack of taking the next step this year
2. No position for him
3. Expansion draft vulnerable
4. And RFA status next year
5. a soft WC paler

its cya...he will most likely improve his stats in the east...

the return is poor but all that tells you is the uselessness of old 29
- bogiedoc

Q prevailed. TT played his way into the doghouse, then out of town. What I heard just now was TT had no future as long as Q is here "and he will be here."

Pretty sure JJ called TT as the cost to lose Bickell before Zawaski. Not 100% certain though.
- tredbrta

I mentioned it was possible but I thought it was a bad idea.

That's a pretty bold prediction. Panarin will almost certainly put up more points than Saad, but Saad is an upper-tier all around player who is still developing. If Panarin puts up points like last year, he will be at minimum be looking at the same ballpark contract as Saad, if not more. I like both players a lot, but to say Panarin will be better is a 50/50 guess at best right now.
- mw630

I'll second it. Panarin's going to get better, he's not bad at all defensively, and he's going to produce a lot more than Saad.

Yet to be seen on Danault. What was KNOWN was he was a highly regarded prospect as a late 1st rounder - and he was performing well defensively in the NHL. Also known, the return for Danault was a player that could have been had on a PTO the summer before and another player who had not scored in a month... both rentals.... and Stan had to ADD a second rounder with Danault to get it done? Looks skewed.

Market for Sharp was not the point. Adding Johns and the leverage it should have granted was the point. And if the market had evaporated on Sharp due to front office procrastination then the blame lies squarely on the head of the front office.

Stan's recent moves look eerily like the moves Shero made before being canned by the Pens. I hope TT plus Bickell signals a change in direction. Good management initiates when necessary. They can't always be reacting. This one has been reacting too much since the last cup.
- tredbrta

I get the frustration and if you want to crucify the front office go ahead.
But for our discussion, let's stay in real time and save future predictions for another time.

I was a fan of Danault since drafted by the front office...But they thought of him as a future 3rd/4th liner and unable to make a difference this year so they swung for the fences.

Sharp trade issue has everything to do with the lack of the market for him and the fact they wanted him to have a big say in where he ended up.

I was in the vast minority on here who said at the time of the trade Bowman paid dearly to make the deal and Johns was the best prospect in the system. Again Bowman had no choice.

Where Bowman did have a choice was to trade either Oduya or Sharp the previous summer-Something I thought could happen but Bowman went for a run at the Cup and kept both. In the end Bowman won the Grand Prize but put himself in a position of little leverage, actually no leverage the next summer because Bickell turned into an anchor.

The Hawks needed to improve their 3rd/4th lines and to do so Bowman wanted to two players and that isn't easy to do at the Deadline....Again he had little leverage and Bergevin got his player in Danault.

Garth would not part with Hamonic for Crow anyways. I have discussed Crow over on the Isles thread for a few seasons. He would be a difference maker there IMO but Halak would be coming back to the Hawks to get the deal done.
- tredbrta

Agreed

They wanted to clear cap space, surprising names might get moved. That's what i was told. I think that's what happened.

I PERSONALLY felt they would not deal TT to get Bickell moved, but I have since heard that even i had overvalued TT vis a vis what the Hawks—especially Q—thought.
- John Jaeckel

Q trusted TT defensively but he could not improve other players and wasn't as effective playing with grinders. ...TT has upside but he needs to play with skill. It's not like when Kane skates a shift with the 4th line and everyone seems to improve a pay grade.

Bottom line is if TT wasn't going to play a top 6 position they were correct to deal him now...No matter how good he turns out to be.

I will just tell you, teams are calling and they are offering (single) first round picks. Source has been right on many things.
- John Jaeckel

Do you believe that is enough for CC? Say it's the number 10-15 pick e.g. and nothing else in return, that's $6m in cap space. Is it worth to just let him go for a first?

I will just tell you, teams are calling and they are offering (single) first round picks. Source has been right on many things.
- John Jaeckel

Islanders need a big time goalie...Issue is they have a lot cap space tied up in Halak who won't be easy to deal. Halak is often hurt and seemingly always at a crucial time.

Q trusted TT defensively but he could not improve other players and wasn't as effective playing with grinders. ...TT has upside but he needs to play with skill. It's not like when Kane skates a shift with the 4th line and everyone seems to improve a pay grade.

Bottom line is if TT wasn't going to play a top 6 position they were correct to deal him now...No matter how good he turns out to be.
- Al

He has upside, but he needs to commit to a more involved, engaged style of play. In other words, sack up and get your nose a little dirty. His avoidance of contact will kill his career if he doesn't change. Some might find this hard to believe, but if he continues to play that way, he will not be welcome in an NHL dressing room.

I know, I know, "that's not his GAME, don't you GET IT?"

Yeah, I GET IT. I have heard how TT is a "gifted virtuoso" for 4 years now. I also know that he is limited not by a lack of hands or head, but heart. Period.

Patrick Kane was similarly branded but honestly was not nearly as bad at his worst early on. And he has certainly evolved and will go into the hard areas.

Up to TT.

Honestly use to be a bigger fan of this teams FO. Last summer we are forced to trade Saad because of the cap (Most of us in agreement that Bicks contract was a large reason why) and so he is gone. Fine turn the page to this year and we are tight for money again (as expected obviously) and we are willing to give up TT to dump bickell to resign SHAW! Why wouldnt we do that a year ago for Saad. Obviously a better player than Shaw is. If all that was just to resign a depth and honestly expandable player when we could have done the same thing a year ago for Saad than I have lost faith in the front office. Now if they resign Ladd instead then I am for it. But if all that you give up TT, Sharp, Johns, all to make more cap space and you say we are going to trade saad rather than trade Shaw a year later. Like what shaw brings but high energy and gritty players are not hard to find. Goal scorers like Saad are.
- kevndevries

Ok, lets not even take into account that AA came back for Saad and Dano was used to get Ladd for a cup run.

I'm now on record as loving the TT/Bickell to CAR thing but forgot to mention what I may like most about it is that StanBowPops&McD seemingly has learned from last year's Saad/Sharp deals, what you are posting about.

No foolin around, no trying to gouge the other guys eyes out in a deal, no waiting for the very best deal of all time to come knockin at your door while the league makes 37 moves as I wait. Move the cap hit, trust my scouts' evaluation on TT and put it in my pocket NOW.

No grand slam, hit a double if the outfielder misses the cutoff man I use my speed to get to 3rd and if they over throw him I go home for an inside the parker. At the very least I have a stand up double and am playing fundamental ball and not trying to reinvent the sport. ....My organization is resourced, great scouting, great coaching, great core. I don't need grand slams I need stand up double after stand up double. No swings and misses (Sharp deal), fundamental ball (TT/Bickell deal).

Point is I think from seeing this move, the timing of it, the context of it, that StanBowPops&McD have learned a thing or two in what is a moving target game, the hard cap and what will it be year to year.

So... next year's lines:

???? - Toews - Hossa
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane
Panik - Kruger - Shaw
Desjardins - Lundberg - ????
???

Keith - Seabrook
Kempny - Hammer
Gustaffson - TVR
Svedberg

Crawford
Darling

Lots of opportunities for Schmaltz, Motte, Hartman, et al...
- DMChi2010

Personally i'd move Panarin to 1LW and acquire Jimmy Vesey play him at 2LW and see if Schmaltz is ready to sign if so give him a shot at center in the bottom six.

Do you believe that is enough for CC? Say it's the number 10-15 pick e.g. and nothing else in return, that's $6m in cap space. Is it worth to just let him go for a first?
- 93Joe

if they need to move the contract and get a pick in the top 20, they should take the money, the pick and run. $10 million gives you a LOT of room to figure out who plays goalie, among other things.

Q trusted TT defensively but he could not improve other players and wasn't as effective playing with grinders. ...TT has upside but he needs to play with skill. It's not like when Kane skates a shift with the 4th line and everyone seems to improve a pay grade.

Bottom line is if TT wasn't going to play a top 6 position they were correct to deal him now...No matter how good he turns out to be.
- Al

Here's the thing with TT - with Carolina he might make the statistics lovers real happy and put up 20G and 60 points eventually in a regular season and the team might even squeak into the playoffs. And then he will have to go up against the real big boys in the playoffs - Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Barkov, Backstrom, even a Tyler Johnson or Nick Bonino.

How well is he going to do knocking heads every night with those kind of guys when they are playing for keeps? Not well methinks, and that's probably the main reason why he is gone.

if they need to move the contract and get a pick in the top 20, they should take the money, the pick and run. $10 million gives you a LOT of room to figure out who plays goalie, among other things.
- John Jaeckel

Thanks JJ. I appreciate the insight and time you take to discuss your information with the rest of us.

FWIW, and I wouldn't bet on his returning, I heard Ladd was open to working with the Hawks on a hometown extension at the time of the trade. This may re-open the door a crack. Maybe not.
- John Jaeckel

Not sure Ladd is worth re-signing. Let him go the way of Shawn Thornton for Boston and watch his skills diminish somewhere else. He's 30 and will be looking for term in his next deal. His scoring has declined. Do you want to pay a bottom six forward $4mm to $6mm a year?

As for Teravainen, this deal reminds me of when Tuomo Ruutu was traded to the 'Canes. Two guys with overhyped talent that never quite captured their potential. TT still has a chance... Not sure he will.

Is Kaner going to Pittsburgh for Malkin?

if they need to move the contract and get a pick in the top 20, they should take the money, the pick and run. $10 million gives you a LOT of room to figure out who plays goalie, among other things.
- John Jaeckel

I think Johansson will get a long look come preseason. He takes good angles and can be lightning quick going post to post. The one spot that needs a bit of work is rebound control but If he works on that I think he could be a good to very good goaltender in the NHL.

Is Kaner going to Pittsburgh for Malkin?
- eggsegan

Here's the thing with TT - with Carolina he might make the statistics lovers real happy and put up 20G and 60 points eventually in a regular season and the team might even squeak into the playoffs. And then he will have to go up against the real big boys in the playoffs - Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux, Barkov, Backstrom, even a Tyler Johnson or Nick Bonino.

How well is he going to do knocking heads every night with those kind of guys when they are playing for keeps? Not well methinks, and that's probably the main reason why he is gone.
- RickJ

Agree Rick