It's a really small sample size as a sheltered 3rd pairing D. I'm skeptical that big offers are coming his way. 28 games as a Penguin. 1 goal, 11 pts. That doesn't scream big money offers.
- madmike71

I never pegged Engelland as a 3million a year guy. And I think we were all a little shocked Depres got 5 years 18.5 (3.7/year) with most of those years being rfa years. Olli Maata is at 6 years 24.5. And he was coming off a lot of issues that still appear to be issues.

My opinion on Schultz is he's a fine protected 3rd pairing offensive dman right now. Seems like those guys can go for in the 2.75/3 range. As far as potential I think he's a lot like Maata/Depres name your RFA dman a team decided to lock up at around 4 million/year. Except he's ufa. I think to a lot of GM's if you can get him to sign 4/5 years at $4/year he's a good risks reward. Paying $3 for what he's showing you now and an extra million for the potential I think he still has.

My opinion on what the Pens should do? If you trust Gonchar at developing guys then you want to sign Schultz to as much term as possible at a reasonable rate. If Gonchar says he has the ability to replace Daley and perhaps be better than him then you listen to Gonchar.

Well rumors are other quality teams are interested. I think its almost certain he gets a quality offer from a well-coached team in the 2 year 3 to 3.5 /year area. I think theres a good chance a 2nd tier team offers him 4/16. I guess my point is if he takes 2.5 here its charity and he's almost certain to go UFA. Maybe circles back around and decides he wants to stay, but he will listen to offers. If we come in a 3/year I think we can sign him pre-UFA.
- sditulli

Tiops is no better than EK with "rumors". I can't think of one rumor he's ever gotten right.

There's risk involved with signing Schultz to a long term deal. Giving Schultz that kind of money reminds me of an NFL team giving a big deal to a quarterback after a couple of good games. He's playing on an exceptional team in a sheltered role and while he's revived his career I don't believe he's completely erased his past.

Calling a "prove it" contract charity is not accurate. Very small sample size with the Penguins and I think it's fair to ask a player to share risk.

I will say, I never underestimate the stupidity of some GM's around the league. So yeah, I could see another team taking that leap of faith. I don't think the Penguins should be that team.

Curfew tonight at 11pm EST. for Pens forum regulars.

We have a game tomorrow and will need all hands on deck again.

Anyone think that if Shultz gets much more than the Cole deal, thats pretty damn big for him?

Yeah, hes looking great... in the 3rd pair. Cole, was actually getting 2nd and top pairing minutes due to all of our injuries, and looked good.

Teams are aware of his easier competition, and yes, hes an offensive monster for possession and playstyle.

I think if he gets more than 3 mil a year, thats a gamble of a contract.


edit - more
I hope we keep him... and honestly, I'd try to trade both Daley and Kunitz. Kunitz, for the obvious reasons... Daley... for 2 reasons. We won't keep him after next season (sorry Trevor), and coming off a broken ankle... he might be a few steps slower for good. Not trying to write off Daley, but throwing out the possible reality when its an injury like that, and hes starting to get older himself as well.

Anyone think that if Shultz gets much more than the Cole deal, thats pretty damn big for him?

Yeah, hes looking great... in the 3rd pair. Cole, was actually getting 2nd and top pairing minutes due to all of our injuries, and looked good.

Teams are aware of his easier competition, and yes, hes an offensive monster for possession and playstyle.

I think if he gets more than 3 mil a year, thats a gamble of a contract.
- Guile

I would actually be more worried about the length of a deal than the amount. I wouldn't want to give him 3 mil and I'm not sure the Pens can, but a 2 year deal wouldn't be the worst. 3 or 4 years, I'll pass.

I would actually be more worried about the length of a deal than the amount. I wouldn't want to give him 3 mil and I'm not sure the Pens can, but a 2 year deal wouldn't be the worst. 3 or 4 years, I'll pass.
- madmike71

2 years at 3 mil a year would be a gamble... but you can hide him in the 3rd pairing for 2 years if he turns bad again and not want to kill ourselves over the cap hit. But then we BETTER DAMN WELL COMMIT to him being a PP QB and making our PP not suck for once.

Anyone think that if Shultz gets much more than the Cole deal, thats pretty damn big for him?

Yeah, hes looking great... in the 3rd pair. Cole, was actually getting 2nd and top pairing minutes due to all of our injuries, and looked good.

Teams are aware of his easier competition, and yes, hes an offensive monster for possession and playstyle.

I think if he gets more than 3 mil a year, thats a gamble of a contract.


edit - more
I hope we keep him... and honestly, I'd try to trade both Daley and Kunitz. Kunitz, for the obvious reasons... Daley... for 2 reasons. We won't keep him after next season (sorry Trevor), and coming off a broken ankle... he might be a few steps slower for good. Not trying to write off Daley, but throwing out the possible reality when its an injury like that, and hes starting to get older himself as well.
- Guile

Definitely think Kunitz will be moved and I think these playoffs have helped his value a bit, but I think Cole should be moved before Daley. Dumo and Daley have both been great and you have a decent top 4 in Letang, maatta, Daley, and dumo. Maybe Schultz takes a 2-2.5 mil deal for 2 years and maybe Kunitz could be moved for a decent dman. I also see pouliot being moved.

2 years at 3 mil a year would be a gamble... but you can hide him in the 3rd pairing for 2 years if he turns bad again and not want to kill ourselves over the cap hit. But then we BETTER DAMN WELL COMMIT to him being a PP QB and making our PP not suck for once.
- Guile

Like it or not, he'll never replace Letang at that spot. Letang is not a great PP QB, we all know that, but I have more of a problem with the forward "set up" than I do with Letang.

Tiops is no better than EK with "rumors". I can't think of one rumor he's ever gotten right.

There's risk involved with signing Schultz to a long term deal. Giving Schultz that kind of money reminds me of an NFL team giving a big deal to a quarterback after a couple of good games. He's playing on an exceptional team in a sheltered role and while he's revived his career I don't believe he's completely erased his past.

Calling a "prove it" contract charity is not accurate. Very small sample size with the Penguins and I think it's fair to ask a player to share risk.

I will say, I never underestimate the stupidity of some GM's around the league. So yeah, I could see another team taking that leap of faith. I don't think the Penguins should be that team.
- madmike71

This would be very similar to Despres and Anaheim. Worked with a small sample size ... some regular-season games and the play-offs. Right now, it appears they went a bit overboard on their term and money ... 3.7 for 5 years on Despres right now is too much. Can't do that with Schultz.

Definitely think Kunitz will be moved and I think these playoffs have helped his value a bit, but I think Cole should be moved before Daley. Dumo and Daley have both been great and you have a decent top 4 in Letang, maatta, Daley, and dumo. Maybe Schultz takes a 2-2.5 mil deal for 2 years and maybe Kunitz could be moved for a decent dman. I also see pouliot being moved.
- drummer829

I'm fine with keeping Kunitz for his final year. Pens aren't very deep at LW and Kunitz has played very well lately. Not totally against trading him, but def more inclined to keep him unless Pens can make a good hockey trade. Two or three weeks ago I would've traded him for nothing, plays just died on his stick, but he's pretty much made me come back around on him. Plus his cap hit isn't too bad for what he produces

Win one for the newest Malkin, Nikita

This would be very similar to Despres and Anaheim. Worked with a small sample size ... some regular-season games and the play-offs. Right now, it appears they went a bit overboard on their term and money ... 3.7 for 5 years on Despres right now is too much. Can't do that with Schultz.
- Oneonta Penguin

I said that Schultz would be a great fit that day they announced that trade and I stand by the statement. I will give you an example Franco Harris was not a star in College Lydell Mitchell was, Mitchell went to a crap team and crapped out. Franco got lucky and was drafted by the Steelers. What would have happened if those two switched places. I cannot prove it but Franco would have been a complete failure. Luck of the draw sometimes wins out

I felt like last year was a fairly rational dman market. But you still had teams offering Paul Martin 4 years 20 million. In his case you know he's probably still good the 1st year of the contract, but he can start to rapidly decline at any point and turn into a scuderi. Schultz is the opposite situation. He comes in as a protected 3D power play specialist, but if you give him term you hope in years 2,3,4 hes a mid-pairing guy.

Seems like proven legit 3/4D guys in their prime who are UFA go for 5.5/6. Aging ones like Paul Martin who have a fair amount decline risks are going for 5. The Maata/Depres RFA year deals are going for 4. So Schultz in the 4/4.5 range for getting him to agree to term I think a lot of GM's will be able to justify. Overpaying for what he is. Underpaying for what you hope you can turn him into.

Like it or not, he'll never replace Letang at that spot. Letang is not a great PP QB, we all know that, but I have more of a problem with the forward "set up" than I do with Letang.
- madmike71

The two Dman setup we have ran a bit, looks MILES better than what we normally put out. Shultz and Letang up top... put Geno on the 2nd unti, that is ran by Dumo and Maatta (Daley Dumo normally).

Curfew tonight at 11pm EST. for Pens forum regulars.

We have a game tomorrow and will need all hands on deck again.
- brienstel

I'm a man and I do what I want

The two Dman setup we have ran a bit, looks MILES better than what we normally put out. Shultz and Letang up top... put Geno on the 2nd unti, that is ran by Dumo and Maatta (Daley Dumo normally).
- Guile

The 2 d unit looks better because of Schultz, not because Malkin's not on it. It'd be leagues better if Letang got the boot.

This would be very similar to Despres and Anaheim. Worked with a small sample size ... some regular-season games and the play-offs. Right now, it appears they went a bit overboard on their term and money ... 3.7 for 5 years on Despres right now is too much. Can't do that with Schultz.
- Oneonta Penguin

It's hard to judge Despres after missing so much time with a concussion this year. Maybe they did go over-board. Time will tell, but this season was a "throw away" for him.

This would be very similar to Despres and Anaheim. Worked with a small sample size ... some regular-season games and the play-offs. Right now, it appears they went a bit overboard on their term and money ... 3.7 for 5 years on Despres right now is too much. Can't do that with Schultz.
- Oneonta Penguin

I think people are always shocked at the money thrown at defenseman. Depres contract did buy out 1 year of UFA (maybe 2). Proven UFA prime aged 3/4 D get Nisky money. Then price everything off of that for how risky the guy is.

If you ask me would I rather pay Schultz 4 or pay what vancouver is going to end up paying that kid they traded for its a no-brainer. And they gave up basically a 1st and 2nd for that right.

The 2 d unit looks better because of Schultz, not because Malkin's not on it. It'd be leagues better if Letang got the boot.
- Victoro311

Well Letang is not getting the boot, and I wouldn't exactly be raving to have Shultz/Malkin as the 2 men back if a breakaway occurs.


Why not let Malkin get his own PP to be the big dawg? He always seems to do better with a chance to show hes the man.

The 2 d unit looks better because of Schultz, not because Malkin's not on it. It'd be leagues better if Letang got the boot.
- Victoro311

I think our PP sucks because nobody shoots or puts the puck on net. No more complicated than that. Every player has a "defer" mentality while looking for the perfect play.

I wonder if this is related, but I was watching the NHL network today and they did a little story on Sid practicing today. The reason he was practicing was to work on his shot around the hash marks. Had Tochett repeatedly feeding him pucks. Something to watch for tomorrow......Sid shooting more.

Well Letang is not getting the boot, and I wouldn't exactly be raving to have Shultz/Malkin as the 2 men back if a breakaway occurs.


Why not let Malkin get his own PP to be the big dawg? He always seems to do better with a chance to show hes the man.
- Guile

Because think about who'd be on the unit if you take Malkin's onetimer off. Crosby, who always passes first unless he's down low but without Malkin he'll be exclusively on the half wall, Letang who is completely ineffective, Kessel who can't one time, and Hornqvist who's only effective if the puck is put on net for him, and then Schultz. Our only chance to score on the PP would be Schultz getting it on net and Hornqvist sinks the rebound. I hate to say it, but the two biggest issues on our PP are Letn-g (obvi) and Crosby's mentality. Malkin is our single best scoring weapon on the PP who's neutralized by the PK not having to respect Letang and Crosby refusing to give Malkin his space on the half wall.

I think our PP sucks because nobody shoots or puts the puck on net. No more complicated than that. Every player has a "defer" mentality while looking for the perfect play.

I wonder if this is related, but I was watching the NHL network today and they did a little story on Sid practicing today. The reason he was practicing was to work on his shot around the hash marks. Had Tochett repeatedly feeding him pucks. Something to watch for tomorrow......Sid shooting more.
- madmike71

More likely he wants the Sharks to think he is going to shoot tomorrow so it opens up more passes for him. Kid loves to pass.

I never pegged Engelland as a 3million a year guy.
- sditulli

To this day I still think Brian Burke told Treiviling to offer Engelland 3 years 2.9 million(meaning 966k per year) and Treiviling misunderstood and offered him 3 years @ 2.9 million per- Engelland faxed the offer back before the ink was dry...

It's the ONLY way that contract makes any sense to me at all

Still intrigued by the Sharks cycle game. Most teams cycle so they can get down low near the net, the Sharks are completely opposite. They cycle down low to get the puck back to the point. Very different.
- Francois Leroux

The point of cycling the puck is to look for an opening to get the puck to the net. Its to get the opposition moving so there's an opening. Many times the penguins cycle game leads to point shots.

There might be tough decisions to be made on the PP.

Letang isnt the best QB but you cant have Malkin and Schultz back there, too much liability defensively. Also dont discount how good Letang has been at keeping the puck in and making a play. Pens need more movement and more effort to get into good shooting positions in the slot. Having Crosby and Kessel on opposing board hash marks does nothing except allowing the defending team to pressure the puck and forcing cross ice passes that lead to a turnover more often than a scoring chance.

I'd like to see Letang and Schultz on the points and have Malkin roam the high slot. Keep Kessel and Crosby down lower towards the net. Schultz and Letang can both step into a lane when the killers collapse on the puck carrier and Kessel and Crosby have a knack for putting the puck in close to the net.