"You could easily argue that Thornton is ahead of Jagr and Forsberg on the all-time greatest player list and just below the level of Lemieux, Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby, Ovechkin."

Now, I'm not gonna rip ya, because you probably started this blog last night and were drinking, but there's no way Lindros is a greater all time player than Jagr and Thornton. You can say the only reason Lindros didn't put greater numbers was because he was hurt a lot. Don't matter he didn't put up the numbers. He was an elite player 5- 7 years tops.

"You could easily argue that Thornton is ahead of Jagr and Forsberg on the all-time greatest player list and just below the level of Lemieux, Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby, Ovechkin."

Now, I'm not gonna rip ya, because you probably started this blog last night and were drinking, but there's no way Lindros is a greater all time player than Jagr and Thornton. You can say the only reason Lindros didn't put greater numbers was because he was hurt a lot. Don't matter he didn't put up the numbers. He was an elite player 5- 7 years tops.
- flipneil

Lindros was one of the most dominant players ever when he was playing. Its hard to argue because of numbers but its just a matter of opinion.

You hit it out of the ballpark with this one tanner

Joe is such a great player. I was actually arguing with some bonehead earlier in the year and it was the typical 'joe can't get it done nonsense. His name doesn't belong with the greats. It annoyed rvrn having to bother list all of the fantastic achievings and milestones this guys reached. And still doing it.

Gudbranson is pretty bad. I've always been one to argue about cherry picking stats, but this guy is brutal by the numbers and the eye. Physical and apparently s character guy though. Wouldn'tve dealt McCann for those attributes tho

Hall left off the team is a joke. But yeah- he plays on a bad team/ he must not be very good

Not sure about ekholm Ove Lindholm or klingberg, but swedens defence is better than Canada's

The American roster is beyond understanding

The big short

James agree with a lot of this blog but I don't understand why you always have to compare what you like /believe with something else in a negative way. Thornton just can't be great and be happy he is going to the finals. You have to add how Kane is "garbage" on defence, Tragically Hip can't just be good they should be bigger then Pearl Jam ect.
Anyway don't understand team USA choices except to say Torts is the coach.
Good to see Kessel doing well but have to cheer for Thornton, Marleau and Ward
- HamiltonHawk

Well, Kane is not very good at defense, and the Hip are clearly superior to Pearl Jam, but I dunno, find me a writer who doesn't use comparisons - I mean, metaphors and similes are drilled into you starting in Jr. Kindergarten....

"You could easily argue that Thornton is ahead of Jagr and Forsberg on the all-time greatest player list and just below the level of Lemieux, Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby, Ovechkin."

Now, I'm not gonna rip ya, because you probably started this blog last night and were drinking, but there's no way Lindros is a greater all time player than Jagr and Thornton. You can say the only reason Lindros didn't put greater numbers was because he was hurt a lot. Don't matter he didn't put up the numbers. He was an elite player 5- 7 years tops.
- flipneil

That is an argument you can make, for sure. But both Lindros and Orr were hurt by injuries. During the actual seasons they played, they were among the best of all time.

I am pretty sure if Lindros somehow played 18 years, he'd be ranked with Gretzky and Lemieux and there would be no debate, people would just accept it.

MINUS: Summer. Give me the Winter anytime. As I write this, it's like 105 degrees Celsius in my office.
- James_Tanner

It snowed this morning in Alberta.....snow....in late May! Screw winter! Give me my darn Summer already weather, you already stole Spring!

But yes, my condolences to your heat situation. Must be odd to be warm in May .

You hit it out of the ballpark with this one tanner

Joe is such a great player. I was actually arguing with some bonehead earlier in the year and it was the typical 'joe can't get it done nonsense. His name doesn't belong with the greats. It annoyed rvrn having to bother list all of the fantastic achievings and milestones this guys reached. And still doing it.

Gudbranson is pretty bad. I've always been one to argue about cherry picking stats, but this guy is brutal by the numbers and the eye. Physical and apparently s character guy though. Wouldn'tve dealt McCann for those attributes tho

Hall left off the team is a joke. But yeah- he plays on a bad team/ he must not be very good

Not sure about ekholm Ove Lindholm or klingberg, but swedens defence is better than Canada's

The American roster is beyond understanding

The big short
- HB77

Hey good post and all, but what's up with the Flames logo? Lose a bet?

Hey good post and all, but what's up with the Flames logo? Lose a bet?
- James_Tanner

Unfortunately yes

I pay my debts

Go flames

Unfortunately yes

I pay my debts

Go flames
- HB77

Ah, what can you do? The Flames are like the fourth or fifth best team to cheer for.

Toronto, Arizona, Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa.

I agree on Brodie and Go but I'm glad they were cut. I care more about the Flames than I do about team Canada and I would hate to loose one of them to injury in it. Flames are also getting a new coach. The more players they have in training camp the better. I don't think Galchenyuk was eligible for team USA. He was only eligible for team NA. A big surprise that he didn't male that team.

James Tanner: PLUS/MINUS: Joe Thornton + Tragically Hips True Place In Music History
The world's greatest weekly hockey article. With love from me to you.
- James_Tanner

Good post James.

One thing I need clarification on is regarding the shot suppression statistics. Does it take into account who they're playing against? I know QoC has gone out of favour, but surely when it comes to a defenseman it matter what opposition lines you're facing.

Good post James.

One thing I need clarification on is regarding the shot suppression statistics. Does it take into account who they're playing against? I know QoC has gone out of favour, but surely when it comes to a defenseman it matter what opposition lines you're facing.
- djamon

I think that the outright dismissal of QoC by a lot of the advanced stats folk is a mistake... especially when it comes to defenseman. .. 3rd pairing guys definitely get easier assignments. Trying to compare guys with different assignments without factoring that in leaves too much room for error.

I think that the outright dismissal of QoC by a lot of the advanced stats folk is a mistake... especially when it comes to defenseman. .. 3rd pairing guys definitely get easier assignments. Trying to compare guys with different assignments without factoring that in leaves too much room for error.
- jtommyt

The problem is that there is a lot more going on here than just QOC.

1) You tend to play with better player the higher quality of opposition you play, thus balancing it out.

2) Games are fluid and a lot of changes occur on the fly, thus making it so that everyone plays against everyone else a lot more than people think.

3) While good matchups occur, it can be very difficult to get them long term. For instance, while Crosby would dominate against a fourth line, it's very difficult to get him out there against fourth lines because other coaches react.

4) People tend to forget how marginal the talent differences are in anything professional. If you cut out the best of the NHL and the worst of the NHL, most of the middle is pretty interchangeable.

5) Study after study have confirmed that if you do well against weak competition and low amounts of playing time, you tend to do about the same as your workload is increased.

6) Studies show that in small samples qoc matters a lot (i.e you get Crosby out against the bottom 2 D and the fourth line) but that, over time, (i.e a big sample size) it washes out (see #s 1-5) because you can't get those matchups often enough to make a huge difference.

Now that people/teams are more or less aware of the preceding, I believe that is why you're seeing a move away from top six/ bottom six and more towards three balances scoring lines - certainly Pittsburgh is a good example because with Crosby, Malkin and Kessel all on different lines, it means essentially one of them is always going to be going against the bottom pairing D.

Its horrible what Gord Downie is going through, but it doesnt make the hip suck any less. horrible band. i will agree that pearl jam sucks more

Mr T...

Really enjoyed this blog.
While I have never been a fan of Thorton the person (I met him in St Thomas a few years back and sorry, he is an ass-clown) but I respect the game he plays and has played.

The Hip... Couldn't agree more! I think they were a little too "Canadiana" to be taken seriously outside the Great White North... Hopefully Gord can beat that god-awful disease so the respect the band deserves isn't because we remember him but because of the music they play now and in the future...

And Benning...you nailed it. poor Van fans. (sorta)

The World Cup is a joke on a thousand fronts... Meh to the tourney and the teams...
- geta02it

It's terminal. He can't. It F'ing suck. I'm not an internet troll trying to be a Richard, but he has decided to spend his last time on Earth doing what he loves to do. Entertaining us! That's some pretty admirable poop right there.

I met Bobby Orr for a few seconds and he made a short joke about me, but I don't judge him. Mostly because I'm pretty (frank)ing short in hockey player standards.

The World Cup is the best.

Elite bands: grateful dead, phish, tool, pearl jam, widespread panic, queens of the stone age/anything Josh homme.

Tragically hip noto elite, but I do enjoy them

Elite bands: grateful dead, phish, tool, pearl jam, widespread panic, queens of the stone age/anything Josh homme.

Tragically hip noto elite, but I do enjoy them
- benjichronic

KYUSS

Elite bands: grateful dead, phish, tool, pearl jam, widespread panic, queens of the stone age/anything Josh homme.

Tragically hip noto elite, but I do enjoy them
- benjichronic

I guess taste is subjective because I do not agree with your assessment at all. Those are bands I liked as a kid that somewhat bore me to various degrees now. Well, not Phish, I do not care for them at all.

I think the Hip stands up to the test of time far better than Pearl Jam or Tool.

Unfortunately yes

I pay my debts

Go flames
- HB77

atta boy HB

Well, Kane is not very good at defense, and the Hip are clearly superior to Pearl Jam, but I dunno, find me a writer who doesn't use comparisons - I mean, metaphors and similes are drilled into you starting in Jr. Kindergarten....
- James_Tanner

Meh, only to a few.

Meh, only to a few.
- Garnie

I honestly don't even know who these people are that like Pearl Jam in 2016. I used to be a huge fan when I was younger - I have like 40 of their CDs, I've been to a bunch of their concerts - but I just don't see the appeal anymore since they haven't really made a decent record since No Code.............They make me understand why my Dad hated Zeppelin growing up, you just don't need to hear "Alive" for the 3489th time.

Personally, Classic Rock just depresses me. That being said, I'd say 90% of the people my age that I hang out with only listen to bands they listened to in high school.

Elite bands: grateful dead, phish, tool, pearl jam, widespread panic, queens of the stone age/anything Josh homme.

Tragically hip noto elite, but I do enjoy them
- benjichronic

I could see myself putting on American Beauty, but honestly, I think at this point I'd spin Alanis before Tool, PJ or QOTSA.

I don't think Galchenyuk was eligible for Team USA (I could be wrong), I think he was eligible only for Team North America.... and leaving him off that team is ludicrous.

I don't think Galchenyuk was eligible for Team USA (I could be wrong), I think he was eligible only for Team North America.... and leaving him off that team is ludicrous.
- mlindsay

damn straight. 30 goals and still leaving him off team NA

I honestly don't even know who these people are that like Pearl Jam in 2016. I used to be a huge fan when I was younger - I have like 40 of their CDs, I've been to a bunch of their concerts - but I just don't see the appeal anymore since they haven't really made a decent record since No Code.............They make me understand why my Dad hated Zeppelin growing up, you just don't need to hear "Alive" for the 3489th time.

Personally, Classic Rock just depresses me. That being said, I'd say 90% of the people my age that I hang out with only listen to bands they listened to in high school.
- James_Tanner

Same goes for The Hip....they kind of fizzled in my mind. I don't listen to a lot of either band much now. Sure they are both very good bands but you can't really rank music...music is all about what you like. I'm not a big fan of most of the bands you like...but hey...you're not wrong for liking them. Not like you are about QOC *runs away*