I feel like an idiot.

I feel like Morin, who everyone is high on, is basically maybe a slightly more offensive Gudbranson.
- J35Bacher

Morin being a better skater is probably more important.

Starting in the NHL as a 19 year old probably didn't help Gudbranson's development, either.

No need to straw-man Yost because no one even said what he has said about this trade, but don't let facts get in the way of that narrative
- AllInForFlyers

His take was as hot as lava.

@travisyost: Stay at home defender Erik Gudbranson's shots against impact comparable to Jared Cowen and Nate Guenin. He's not who you think he is.

@travisyost: Here's a free tip: Vancouver loses that trade. Just like the last eight and probably the next seven. Just absolutely lost.

Morin being a better skater is probably more important.

Starting in the NHL as a 19 year old probably didn't help Gudbranson's development, either.
- Feanor

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.
- J35Bacher

I believe the people who feel Benning paid too much for Gud are likely the same people who have more realistic expectations of Morin -- they're not the Morin = Pronger people.

His take was as hot as lava.

@travisyost: Stay at home defender Erik Gudbranson's shots against impact comparable to Jared Cowen and Nate Guenin. He's not who you think he is.

@travisyost: Here's a free tip: Vancouver loses that trade. Just like the last eight and probably the next seven. Just absolutely lost.
- Feanor

I didn't know he had said that, but that's awesome -- and I am totally stealing your "hot as lava" for my own personal use

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.
- J35Bacher

But what makes you say that besides EG being known as a defensive defenseman, Morin being touted as a defensive defenseman, and the fact that they are both above average in size?

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.
- J35Bacher

You'll never confuse Morin's skating for Ghost or Provorov's skating. But honestly, a better skating and nastier Gudbranson (not that he doesn't have a mean streak) who focuses on the defensive aspect would be okay with me. Gudbranson seemed like he was drafted based on size, where as Morin was drafted on size and potential. The Flyers have also shown some real patience with him to let him develop, as opposed to Gudbranson who was thrown to the wolves.

You'll never confuse Morin's skating for Ghost or Provorov's skating. But honestly, a better skating and nastier Gudbranson (not that he doesn't have a mean streak) who focuses on the defensive aspect would be okay with me. Gudbranson seemed like he was drafted based on size, where as Morin was drafted on size and potential. The Flyers have also shown some real patience with him to let him develop, as opposed to Gudbranson who was thrown to the wolves.
- jmatchett383

I don't know for a fact, but I think that's it possible that Gudbranson's contract demands could be a factor in this deal.

Preventing goals is just as important as generating them. Playing defense, even if it doesn't directly result in offense, definitely contributes to that. It's about needs, and what each team feels they need.
- MJL

And where is the evidence that he is good at preventing goals...neither really matter as much as the difference between them, and for his lack of offense I don't think his defense is good enough to support the value that was placed on him.

This trades closest comparable is probably Schenn/JVR

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.
- J35Bacher

See, who are "people?" I don't know who that is

I always say this about prospects: All prospects are suspects until they make it, and I know I make it clear that not only do I no longer have time to watch junior hockey anymore, for the first time in years I didn't watch the Phantoms play once last season

I have watched Gudbranson play numerous times over the years, for good Panthers teams and bad, and you don't even need analystics to realize where his limitations are

But I know I never compared anyone to Morin, or are too high or too low on him, because I haven't seen him play enough

I don't know for a fact, but I think that's it possible that Gudbranson's contract demands could be a factor in this deal.
- MJL

I am sure it is, but that only makes getting fleeced on a trade for him even worse. Bottom line is the Panthers recognized that he either was not a part of their future or he was not worth what he thought he was to them. They got fantastic value for someone they no longer wanted

I disagree.
- Streit2ThePoint

ashame

His take was as hot as lava.

@travisyost: Stay at home defender Erik Gudbranson's shots against impact comparable to Jared Cowen and Nate Guenin. He's not who you think he is.

@travisyost: Here's a free tip: Vancouver loses that trade. Just like the last eight and probably the next seven. Just absolutely lost.
- Feanor

#fancystats folks are turning hockey into baseball and I'm going to puke.

Some #fancystats people are also very smug.

He is maybe slightly better. But it's not like Morin is Provorov in skating ability.

I just think Morin and Gudbranson are closer in comparables than people think. but people are high on Morin and think Gudbranson is overrated.
- J35Bacher

The gif's no longer working but you might remember it from a year ago - Morin catching Duclair from behind on a breakaway.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=68556

And where is the evidence that he is good at preventing goals...neither really matter as much as the difference between them, and for his lack of offense I don't think his defense is good enough to support the value that was placed on him.

This trades closest comparable is probably Schenn/JVR
- YuenglingJagr

NHL teams consider how the pieces will fit together, to mold a team. I don't think Gudbranson is a star, but Vancouver obviously thinks they have a need for a top 4 defenseman, with size. Ultimately, how all the pieces fit together to form a team, is what matters. Not what each individual player's hero chart looks like, based on bad data.

JVR was far more of an established NHL player than McCann is, so I don't think that's a great comparable.

I am sure it is, but that only makes getting fleeced on a trade for him even worse. Bottom line is the Panthers recognized that he either was not a part of their future or he was not worth what he thought he was to them. They got fantastic value for someone they no longer wanted
- YuenglingJagr

It's not a fact that anyone got fleeced on the trade. It remains to be seen how that "fantastic" value works out.

#fancystats folks are turning hockey into baseball and I'm going to puke.

Some #fancystats people are also very smug.
- Scoob

No need for that -- either Gudbranson plays well for Vancouver, or not

Stats can't ruin a sport no faster or more thoroughly than some grizzled scout saying "Pick Player X because they play hard, etc."

At the end of the day, both are opinions based off metrics each holds to be true

No need for that -- either Gudbranson plays well for Vancouver, or not
- AllInForFlyers

Nope. Yost said he won't and Vancouver lost. Case closed.

Nope. Yost said he won't and Vancouver lost. Case closed.
- Scoob

Ha! Well, he has to own that, for better or worse

No need for that -- either Gudbranson plays well for Vancouver, or not

Stats can't ruin a sport no faster or more thoroughly than some grizzled scout saying "Pick Player X because they play hard, etc."

At the end of the day, both are opinions based off metrics each holds to be true
- AllInForFlyers

But... but... progress frightens me.

Dreger never missed an opportunity to poop on Luke Schenn but loves him some Gudbranson.

http://www.todaysslapshot...one-in-terms-of-shopping/

Dreger:

to get quality players, you’ve got to be willing to give up quality assets – and that’s what Benning has done in acquiring Gudbranson. This guy is a Top-4 NHL defenseman. He’s got enormous size. He’s, again, age-like in terms of Ben Hutton, so the development of that blueline is going to happen simultaneously, which was important.

“It’s not going to be easy to do, but at least now he’s got certainty in Gudbranson coming to the Vancouver Canucks, as opposed to the ongoing negotiations with Dan Hamhuis, if you will. There’s whispers and rumors about maybe Kris Russell going into the free agent pool, leaving the Dallas Stars, and Vancouver having interest there.

“Now at least he has a sure piece that he paid a premium price for, but he’s got that piece.”

But... but... progress frightens me.
- Tomahawk

One thing is for sure: I am curious to see who Gudbranson plays with out there

ashame
- sjk540

You cannot say they would win 100% because you cannot predict the past.

I don't know for a fact, but I think that's it possible that Gudbranson's contract demands could be a factor in this deal.
- MJL

Could that be something that comes up with Schenn?

Dreger never missed an opportunity to poop on Luke Schenn but loves him some Gudbranson.

http://www.todaysslapshot...one-in-terms-of-shopping/

Dreger:
- Feanor

You know, that's what makes it odd -- I would very much agree that Gudbranson is more consistent on a shift-by-shift basis than Luke Schenn has been, and if someone hangs their hat on that, by all means

But at the same time, that doesn't make you a player that is worth what Vancouver paid in assets -- youth and size are great, but Gudbranson's played enough where it's fair to say there is some risk in there

As you said earlier: I'd have kept McCann, made the picks, and signed Schenn first, if you had to have a RH defender with some size and youth. But that's just me