It is stupid to give up those kind of assets for someone who will never generate offense. This kind of trade is how teams end up watching guys like Ryan McDonagh and Kevin Shattenkirk play for someone else their entire careers
- YuenglingJagr

Exactly -- you have to be able to move the puck to justify this kind of return. No one's saying you can't trade McCann and picks for a defenseman. But you're begging for trouble when you move those assets for the kind of defenseman Gudbranson is

No one's saying Gudbranson can't play. It's just that the offense hasn't come and doesn't really look like it will

Exactly -- you have to be able to move the puck to justify this kind of return. No one's saying you can't trade McCann and picks for a defenseman. But you're begging for trouble when you move those assets for the kind of defenseman Gudbranson is

No one's saying Gudbranson can't play. It's just that the offense hasn't come and doesn't really look like it will
- AllInForFlyers

I don't know much about him but is he like a handsomer version of Nic Grossmann?

I don't know much about him but is he like a handsomer version of Nic Grossmann?
- Streit2ThePoint

Depends if youre into bald guys or not

I don't know much about him but is he like a handsomer version of Nic Grossmann?
- Streit2ThePoint

He moves well, has a hard shot, is RH. He has tools. But he processes the game at an average level and his puck skills are average, which has made him less than the sum of those tools

Someone hit the nail on the head: He's a more mobile Luke Schenn. Not a crime, but the ceiling is what it is

I honestly never considered his appearance

No, Coots couldn't have played on the 2010 team. Who would he have replaced? Simply replacing Asham with Coots is a silly mindset considering both play very different roles. Coots would have to replace someone like Mike Richards within his role and guess what, Richards was better. I wouldn't even replace Coots with Betts because we had the best 4th line that season and in my opinion Betts was a better faceoff man and a better skater.

Is Coots a defenseman?
- SuperSchennBros

so you're telling me instead of a line like lappy - betts - powe, you wouldnt put coots and raffl in there? lappy - coots - raffl. or forget raffl, just say lappy - coots - betts, so betts could take the faceoffs and stay in the lineup for us for the PK? i mean as a rookie coots shutdown a top 5 player in the world, lets be real here, he absolutely couldve played on this team.

the only question is if he were drafted that year would he even be brought up? i doubt he wouldve just due to the depth, but if he was called up, he definitely couldve played over guys like powe and asham. asham and carcillo both do the same thing, play with energy, limited offensive upside, get under the skin, park in front of the net, their skill sets are almost identical, save for asham taking less stupid penalties. you could easily have lost one of them for coots. once quenneville split up toews and kane after game 4, we never won again. having coots out there against one of those lines allowing the richie line up against the other line wouldve helped us tremendously.

gagne - richie - giroux
hartsy - briere - leino
JVR - carter - giroux
lappy/asham - coots - betts/asham

if coots transported from 2012 to 2010 we win the cup, 100%

so you're telling me instead of a line like lappy - betts - powe, you wouldnt put coots and raffl in there? lappy - coots - raffl. or forget raffl, just say lappy - coots - betts, so betts could take the faceoffs and stay in the lineup for us for the PK? i mean as a rookie coots shutdown a top 5 player in the world, lets be real here, he absolutely couldve played on this team.

the only question is if he were drafted that year would he even be brought up? i doubt he wouldve just due to the depth, but if he was called up, he definitely couldve played over guys like powe and asham. asham and carcillo both do the same thing, play with energy, limited offensive upside, get under the skin, park in front of the net, their skill sets are almost identical, save for asham taking less stupid penalties. you could easily have lost one of them for coots. once quenneville split up toews and kane after game 4, we never won again. having coots out there against one of those lines allowing the richie line up against the other line wouldve helped us tremendously.

gagne - richie - giroux
hartsy - briere - leino
JVR - carter - giroux
lappy/asham - coots - betts/asham

if coots transported from 2012 to 2010 we win the cup, 100%
- sjk540

I disagree.

I don't know much about him but is he like a handsomer version of Nic Grossmann?
- Streit2ThePoint

Pretty much. He's really quite poor w/ the puck.

I honestly never considered his appearance
- AllInForFlyers

Your loss

It is stupid to give up those kind of assets for someone who will never generate offense. This kind of trade is how teams end up watching guys like Ryan McDonagh and Kevin Shattenkirk play for someone else their entire careers
- YuenglingJagr

Preventing goals is just as important as generating them. Playing defense, even if it doesn't directly result in offense, definitely contributes to that. It's about needs, and what each team feels they need.

Exactly -- you have to be able to move the puck to justify this kind of return. No one's saying you can't trade McCann and picks for a defenseman. But you're begging for trouble when you move those assets for the kind of defenseman Gudbranson is

No one's saying Gudbranson can't play. It's just that the offense hasn't come and doesn't really look like it will
- AllInForFlyers

In my opinion this is looking at the deal from a narrow perspective. I'm sure if Vancouver was looking for a point producing defenseman, they wouldn't have targeted Gudbranson.

Your loss
- Tomahawk

I know right

Preventing goals is just as important as generating them. Playing defense, even if it doesn't directly result in offense, definitely contributes to that. It's about needs, and what each team feels they need.
- MJL

I feel like an idiot.

I feel like Morin, who everyone is high on, is basically maybe a slightly more offensive Gudbranson.

It changes each time he is traded
- YuenglingJagr

I feel like an idiot.

I feel like Morin, who everyone is high on, is basically maybe a slightly more offensive Gudbranson.
- J35Bacher

Well it's possible that he'll be a better player, with a better point output. I think people are underrating Gudbranson somewhat. As with any trade, we have see how it turns out. Some trades are good for both teams. We can either form our own opinions, or just go with what Travis Yost says.

Your loss
- Tomahawk

Lol

Well it's possible that he'll be a better player, with a better point output. I think people are underrating Gudbranson somewhat. As with any trade, we have see how it turns out. Some trades are good for both teams. We can either form our own opinions, or just go with what Travis Yost says.
- MJL

No need to straw-man Yost because no one even said what he has said about this trade, but don't let facts get in the way of that narrative

So just to take what we've been discussing here and flipping it to the paid talking heads, I'm listening to Craig Button on Leafs Lunch. On the off sides play he's adamant: "The play was off sides. That's it. If it was off sides there's no discussion and the refs reviewed it and got it right and that's what it's all about isn't it? Getting it right..."

10 minutes later they're still discussing the game and the Malkin retaliatory penalty comes up. So Button's take: "Well, obviously the refs missed the call on Callahan but they caught the retaliation. That happens. You have to deal with it. The refs aren't going to catch everything and if you're going to retaliate, you're going to have to kill that penalty off. You can't expect the refs to catch everything."

Now I like Craig Button but he's talking out of both sides of his head. This is where the discussions start to infuriate me.
- mayorofangrytown

Predicted Button response "there was no goal scored on the Malkin play"

To which I respond "So what? If you're going to review stuff, review it all, otherwise let the humans play and officiate the game in real time."

This "gotta get it right" stuff is just crap.

Thoughts:

How many times - be honest- have offside calls been so blatantly missed that led to a goal.

Horror stories exist. Stickle and that goal against the Pens. Sure.

But be objective. Was offsides REALLY an issue? No. It wasn't. Hockey was just fine without the ability to challenge a skate being a picometer offside. Which leads me here- was Drouin REALLY offside last night? Was he really?

Offside is implemented to stop players from cherry picking or racing into the zone to get open way in front of his teammate.

This micro offside calls are garbage because being offside changed NOTHING about the play.

Think of the offside play we know. A guy goes in a foot before the puck. Fine. The puck bounces out of the zone. Fine. A guy straddling the line receiving a pass without his back skate off the ice? Not fine. Come on.

I guess my rambling's bottom line is this: if you could have the SAME EXACT PLAY unfold by just nudging your foot down an inch, or hesitating a plancktime longer, it's not "offsides" in regards to the true reason the rule was implemented.

Stop the reviewing, or make it a plane like the NFL end zone
- Giroux_Is_God

I love scoring plays being challengeable in hockey. But I don't think offsides is a scoring play, even if it leads to a goal. It's indirect. A missed offsides leading to a goal is no different than a missed tripping penalty that allows a team to get the puck back and leads to a goal.
- Mononoke

these

It is stupid to give up those kind of assets for someone who will never generate offense. This kind of trade is how teams end up watching guys like Ryan McDonagh and Kevin Shattenkirk play for someone else their entire careers
- YuenglingJagr

I think you can be a good dman without generating a lot of offense. Chris Tanev is that way. Not sure that Gudbranson is, which is why I think the deal is risky when Luke Schenn should be available.

Reminds me of the story of Jim "Hacksaw" Reynolds for the 49'ers. At breakfast on the day of their first Superbowl appearance in the 80's, as the team members show up to eat, dressed in sweats, there's Jim, sitting at one of the tables completely dressed in his uniform, pads and all, fully taped and ready to go, sipping a cup of coffee.

THAT was O.G.!
- WhirlingDervish

lol!

doesn't it blow your mind that the team captain leads the team in scoring?
- 2Real

Shea Weber sucks

Well it's possible that he'll be a better player, with a better point output. I think people are underrating Gudbranson somewhat. As with any trade, we have see how it turns out. Some trades are good for both teams. We can either form our own opinions, or just go with what Travis Yost says.
- MJL

The picks we will have to wait an see. BUt player wise I see why Vancouver did it. Gudbranson is a 6'5'' top for possible top pairing defenseman at 24 years old. They will lose HAmhuis and could move Elder.

I like McCann but I am not sure how much of an upside he has. I view him as a nice 3rd line center.

But I think both teams did well in the trade. Both seemed to get solid returns. And defenseman will always carry a little more value.

No need to straw-man Yost because no one even said what he has said about this trade, but don't let facts get in the way of that narrative
- AllInForFlyers

What facts have been presented. Was the opinion that posted of Yost's a fact, or.was it just his opinion? The comment I made about Yost and his expertise is valid. His opinions are.formed by very suspect analytics. He does not have a cess to the analytics that NHL teams have acess to.

What facts have been presented. Was the opinion that posted of Yost's a fact, or.was it just his opinion? The comment I made about Yost and his expertise is valid. His opinions are.formed by very suspect analytics. He does not have a cess to the analytics that NHL teams have acess to.
- MJL

Lol

Another thing worth noting... Who's that behind the shark's bench? Oh yea peter Deboer... Pretty sure I wanted him here... Hextall has a plan tho
- JoeRussomanno

If you're not already in the management ranks of an NHL team you should get your resume out there pronto.