Did this guy just say it was a 4-2 victory?
- DeflatedPucks

He stopped watching after the Rust goal

Ty,

I understand where you are coming from and respect your point of view on the situation, but whether Tampa Bay gained a tactical advantage or not should not come into play in this situation. The rule of offsides is pretty cut and dry... the fact of the matter is that Drouin was clearly offsides and the call on the ice should reflect what actually occurred. I know that Drouin didn't gain a tactical advantage, but what if he was 2 whole strides offsides... then you would clearly say that he gained a tactical advantage. So my point is, where do you draw the line... do you say one play is offsides while another is not... NO, you just have to draw a line in the sand and stick with it and Drouin was, by the rules, offsides.

Technology has changed these games forever. I don't see it reverting back. It's never bad when your team benefits.....just saying.

This "rule" should be an easy adjustment for players IMO. Drag your foot at all costs. To me, it's no different than a college football player learning to get both feet in bounds in the NFL.
- madmike71

You're right especially about it never being bad when it benefits your team but it was never necessary in the first place. Coaches probably love this because everything is about defense now and this gives them more control. Bylsma said this week that coaching now is all about teaching defense and systems, he also said no coach has ever been fired for giving up too few goals.

I wish that wasn't the approach

Yes it is, but if a guy is a millimeter offside, no I don't care. If a guy gets tripped with one minute left in a tie game it doesn't get called in the playoffs. That's a bigger deal than an offside. But since that's a "judgement call" apparently everybody is ok with it.

Penalties that are and are not called affect a game more than offside. I want penalties called more consistently and I also don't want offside reviewed. I guess that makes me a moron
- mattmoulson

Firstly I never called you a moron - we all have our own opinions.

What you are doing is debating which rules should & shouldnt be reviewed. At the moment the offside rule is reviewable & is making a difference in games. The big thing here is the word 'rule'. It's black & white & is being adjudicated as such. With the new technology it's become a talking point. Give it a few months of operation (if they do it next regular season), & it won't be an issue.

What my point at the start is that a few weeks ago there was a similar call in another game that didn't get the ire of Ty. Now it has denied the Bolts a goal it's all of a sudden a horrible situation!

Wrong, using the NHL rules he was not offside.
- Kucherovski

lol...that is why I said by 'precedent'

I think, based on the rules, if you're going to make arguments start to ask, was Drouin onside because to answer your exact question, no he was not offside if his skates are the way they were and he shoots and scores.
- Kucherovski

That's funny. Just because the rule does not spell out what you are saying doesn't means that it hasn't been interpreted as such for many, many, many, many...did I mention many? years.

Nobody who understands the game or plays it thinks Drouin was onside.



83.1 Off-side - Players of the attacking team must not precede the puck
into the attacking zone.

The position of the player’s skates and not that of his stick shall be
the determining factor in all instances in deciding an off-side. A player
is off-side when both skates are completely over the leading edge of
the blue line involved in the play.

A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.

It should be noted that while the position of the player’s skates is
what determines whether a player is “off-side,” nevertheless the
question of an “off-side” never arises until the puck has completely
crossed the leading edge of the blue line at which time the decision is
to be made.

If a player legally carries or passes the puck back into his own
defending zone while a player of the opposing team is in such
defending zone, the off-side shall be ignored and play permitted to
continue.

Ty,

I understand where you are coming from and respect your point of view on the situation, but whether Tampa Bay gained a tactical advantage or not should not come into play in this situation. The rule of offsides is pretty cut and dry... the fact of the matter is that Drouin was clearly offsides and the call on the ice should reflect what actually occurred. I know that Drouin didn't gain a tactical advantage, but what if he was 2 whole strides offsides... then you would clearly say that he gained a tactical advantage. So my point is, where do you draw the line... do you say one play is offsides while another is not... NO, you just have to draw a line in the sand and stick with it and Drouin was, by the rules, offsides.
- BRusin6687

Seriously, go back and read. Drouin was NOT offside, he was NOT onside either. The rule for offside is far from cut and dry. Go back a page or two and read the real actual rule from the NHL.

Thanks to the most ridiculous, nonsensical rule in the league today. Yes, even worse than the delay of game

What is wrong with the delay of game rule? I think its fair, and I've seen the Pens do it 3 times in a span of 3 mins against the Caps

But don’t try to seriously tell me or anybody that Drouin’s airborne back leg was the reason that Brian Dumoulin and Kris Letang forgot he was on the ice before it was too late.

You have to add Geno's name too. They all went for the same two guys and left backdoor open

By now, everybody is familiar with this rule, and everybody’s been burned by it. But I’ve yet to hear something that explains the tactical advantage gained by Drouin’s skate -- or anybody’s for that matter -- being in the air a good eight seconds before the goal is scored. Because it doesn’t give you one. Period.

By the rules its also offside. Period. That's how rules work. Its one thing to argue against the rule being interpreted incorrectly and another to think the rule affects the flow/spirit of the game. But hey, I wasn't at the GM's meeting that voted for coaches challenges/replays

I don't have a problem with the rule, and it's not because the Pens were the beneficiaries of it last night. Why have the rule at all if we are going to be selective about it?

Can we confirm that even if a guy is offside a goalie is still allowed to make a save
- mattmoulson

Sure...what is your point?

I'm guessing you really don't have one...but I'll wait to see if you figure that out.

That's funny. Just because the rule does not spell out what you are saying doesn't means that it hasn't been interpreted as such for many, many, many, many...did I mention many? years.

Nobody who understands the game or plays it thinks Drouin was onside.


- icedog97

But for many, many, many years... this goal would not even have been debated and the replay would not have been scrutinized the way it was.

That's funny. Just because the rule does not spell out what you are saying doesn't means that it hasn't been interpreted as such for many, many, many, many...did I mention many? years.

Nobody who understands the game or plays it thinks Drouin was onside.



83.1 Off-side - Players of the attacking team must not precede the puck
into the attacking zone.

The position of the player’s skates and not that of his stick shall be
the determining factor in all instances in deciding an off-side. A player
is off-side when both skates are completely over the leading edge of
the blue line involved in the play.

A player is on-side when either of his skates are in contact with, or
on his own side of the line, at the instant the puck completely crosses
the leading edge of the blue line regardless of the position of his stick.
However, a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the
line ahead of the puck shall not be considered “off-side,” provided he
had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the
blue line.

It should be noted that while the position of the player’s skates is
what determines whether a player is “off-side,” nevertheless the
question of an “off-side” never arises until the puck has completely
crossed the leading edge of the blue line at which time the decision is
to be made.

If a player legally carries or passes the puck back into his own
defending zone while a player of the opposing team is in such
defending zone, the off-side shall be ignored and play permitted to
continue.
- icedog97

I understand the game, understand the rule, understand how to avoid being offside. Players for years attempt to drag their skate to stay onside but by the definition the NHL puts out for offside Drouin was not offside was my point. You guys keep saying the rule is clear, he was offside but anyone who can read knows he was NOT offside by the actual definition of the rule. Now again I understand how offsides is called but just saying you can't say it was offside by the definition of the rule, it was offside by how hockey fans and players know it to be but not by the NHL rules.

If the guy was offsides by a single millimeter, then it should be called, and the goal disallowed. The reason we have objective rules like this (no attackers may precede puck into offensive zone) is because without it, we're left to - as the author suggests - having to subjectively determine whether the attacking team gained an advantage from having a guy in the zone before the puck... and how the heck would we do that? Where do we "draw the line" (npi) on letting go "innocuous" offsides?

Also - assume for the moment this *was* objectively a bad call (e.g. another angle showed Drouin's skate on the line until the puck was in the zone)... it wouldn't be the first time a team got burned on a bad call in the playoffs... if anything, having it happen in the 1st period gives the "victimized" team the best chance to recover... and really show who's best.

Look - I want the Penguins to lose... but I don't think this after-the-fact goal reversal gives the Lightning the moral high ground here (not that it would make much of a difference anyway).

Seriously, go back and read. Drouin was NOT offside, he was NOT onside either. The rule for offside is far from cut and dry. Go back a page or two and read the real actual rule from the NHL.
- Kucherovski

He was offside. You are the one who needs to read the rule. Every single hockey mind and analyst are in agreement it was offside. For further clarification, see the bold print a few posts above.

You rationalize the call by saying it truely is offside.

You point out it has happened to Pens.

You female dog about a ruling with a complete different team that happened years ago.

You think its funny that the the blogger would female dog a storm if it was the other way around.

...but the hole blog is about the ruling itself being a complete failed experience from the nhl. Good job.
- Cloud

Honestly.. I really don't understand what the big deal and hate on the coach's challenge is. If it allows the officials to get the calls right, why is it a problem? I don't want to see any game decided by a missed offside/goalie interference/high stick. If it's the right call, it's the right call, and if it takes a coach's challenge to get it right, then I'm all for it.

Seriously, go back and read. Drouin was NOT offside, he was NOT onside either. The rule for offside is far from cut and dry. Go back a page or two and read the real actual rule from the NHL.
- Kucherovski

Please...you ask any NHL player if Drouin was onside or not and they will tell you he was offside.

EVERY player knows...drag your skate...stay on side.

What he did is the EXACT reason why they drag their skates...because if they don't they KNOW they are offside.

You're right especially about it never being bad when it benefits your team but it was never necessary in the first place. Coaches probably love this because everything is about defense now and this gives them more control. Bylsma said this week that coaching now is all about teaching defense and systems, he also said no coach has ever been fired for giving up too few goals.

I wish that wasn't the approach
- mattmoulson

Dan Bylsma and defense. That's kind of funny. He's the reason MAF was ready for a straight jacket a few years ago because the team in front of him didn't give a damn about preventing goals. I actually think that's a little bit of a jab at Pens ownership 'cause they repeatedly asked him to adjust his game plans and he refused.

Teams need to be able to play multiple styles and adjust mid-game.....something he never did.

Anyway, I actually think this "offside review" process is extremely easy for players to adjust to. Brand it on your brain to drag your foot.

I don't have a problem with the rule, and it's not because the Pens were the beneficiaries of it last night. Why have the rule at all if we are going to be selective about it?
- TheRollingPuck

Penguins fans are used to watching playoff games. The problem with the selectivity argument is that the rule book clearly states what is and is not a penalty as well, and in the playoffs who knows what the hell a penalty is anymore.

So the powers that be decided that the thing the NHL really needed was to challenge offside. But the lack of goal scoring isn't a problem and let's not emphasize actually calling penalties

But for many, many, many years... this goal would not even have been debated and the replay would not have been scrutinized the way it was.
- climbdenali12

So...what is your point?

Now it is.

Stay onside.

Dan Bylsma and defense. That's kind of funny. He's the reason MAF was ready for a straight jacket a few years ago because the team in front of him didn't give a damn about preventing goals. I actually think that's a little bit of a jab at Pens ownership 'cause they repeatedly asked him to adjust his game plans and he refused.

Teams need to be able to play multiple styles and adjust mid-game.....something he never did.

Anyway, I actually think this "offside review" process is extremely easy for players to adjust to. Brand it on your brain to drag your foot.
- madmike71

It might be easy to adjust to, but in the grand scheme of things the fact that offside is what the NHL decided it needed to address is completely tone deaf

Penguins fans are used to watching playoff games. The problem with the selectivity argument is that the rule book clearly states what is and is not a penalty as well, and in the playoffs who knows what the hell a penalty is anymore.

So the powers that be decided that the thing the NHL really needed was to challenge offside. But the lack of goal scoring isn't a problem and let's not emphasize actually calling penalties
- mattmoulson

Blah...blah...blah...blah.

Blah...blah...blah...blah.

Really...don't you get it...just stay onside.

But for many, many, many years... this goal would not even have been debated and the replay would not have been scrutinized the way it was.
- climbdenali12

But for many, many, many years...black people were slaves and Michael b Jordan wouldn't be in any movie.

Please...you ask any NHL player if Drouin was onside or not and they will tell you he was offside.

EVERY player knows...drag your skate...stay on side.

What he did is the EXACT reason why they drag their skates...because if they don't they KNOW they are offside.
- icedog97

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. Maybe he has a reading comprehension issue.

http://www.usahockeyruleb...084688-rule-630-off-sides

I asked John Scott what the NHL should do and he had a great answer. He says that on a coach's challenge the fans should be allowed to decide. Have a commercial break and let the fans text yes or no responses until the end of the break. That eliminates any chance of the NHL being blamed for a bad decision plus it gets rid of the ipad.

(and if the NHL had netcams in 2004 the Bolts would be playing for their first cup.)

I asked John Scott what the NHL should do and he had a great answer. He says that on a coach's challenge the fans should be allowed to decide. Have a commercial break and let the fans text yes or no responses until the end of the break. That eliminates any chance of the NHL being blamed for a bad decision plus it gets rid of the ipad.
- itwasin

Nah that will still always happen.
#cellphonegate