Good thought provoking post. I need some time to chew on it.

I would say the one thing most of those teams had was the ability to roll 4 lines. You look at Pits for the last couple years and after their top 6 they have been pretty weak. This year with Hotdog boy and some good call-ups they are a different team.

Maybe you could look at it like the top 6 is obviously important, but with the brutality that comes with having to win 4 7 game series depth is just as important!
- DuranDuran

I agree there is definitely flaws in my point; there is much more than just your top 2 players that win you the cup. I remember reading that much of the Blackhawks success can be attributed to the fact they have been able to constantly have a large portion of their bottom 6 signed to cap friendly contracts. They have never been afraid to trade those guys once they were ready to receive more on the open market. I think as long as you have decent drafting and development within the organization you should be able to recycle those players into the bottom 6 as needed.

Our Bottom 6 keepers

Mikael Backlund
Joe Colborne as long as he can be signed at 1.5 to 1.75m
Michael Ferland. Disappointing season but I’m hoping the coaching change has a positive effect on him. I would imagine Bob would have been very hard on him
Josh Jooris.
Deryk Engelland. Didn’t he play both forward and defensive positions in Pittsburgh? If so it would be nice to have him in the bottom pairing if we could somehow trick some team into taking Bollig.

The rest should be completely expendable an make room to be able to spend on your top 6.

I have proposed this question several times on here and its sparked some conversation with regards to when the “Re-Build,’’ should be complete in our eyes. There is a fine line in there where GM’s need to take chances and peruse players via trade or FA to get you over the hump. Now this isn’t perfect science but I will try my best to keep this as factual as possible.

I believe that there is a short window as to when you should be competing for, and or winning the ultimate prize. The easiest place to start with, would be your number 1 and 2 players age.

Cup winners for the last 10 years.

Carolina Hurricanes 2005-2006, Top 2 players, Eric Stall first NHL season, Justin Williams 2nd.
Anaheim Ducks 2006-2007 Top 2 Players, Ryan Getzlaf 2nd NHL season, Corey Perry 1st NHL season
Detroit Red Wings 2007-2008 Top 2 Players, Pavel Datsyuk 5th NHL season, Henrik Zetterberg 5th NHL season
Pittsburgh Penguins 2008-2009 Top 2 Players, Sidney Crosby 4th NHL season, Evegeni Malkin 4th NHL season
Chicago Blackhawks 2009-2010 Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 3rd NHL Season, Patrick Kane 3rd season
Boston Bruins 2010-2011, Top 2 players, Patrice Bergeron 6th NHL season, Milan Lucic 4th NHL season
Los Angeles Kings 2011-2012, Top 2 players, Anze Kopitar 6 years, Drew Doughty 3rd NHL Season.
Chicago Blackhawks 2012-2013, Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 7th NHL seasons, Patrick Kane 7th NHL seasons
Los Angeles Kings 2013-2014 Top 2 players, Anze Kopitar 8th NHL seasons, Drew Doughty 5th NHL seasons
Chicago Blackhawks 2014-2015 Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 9th NHL seasons, Patrick Kane 9th NHL seasons

This year’s guess

Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby 11th NHL season, Evegni Malkin 11th NHL seasons. Exception? Not really they're both around 28 years old.

The NHL is a young man’s game and maybe salary cap plays a large part as well. In my opinion I believe that Johnny is top 10 LW in the league, Money is a top 20 center and Gio, Brodie, Hamilton are top 20 defense. I am of the belief that I would gladly throw the top 6 pick for a top 10, up and coming goalie. Playoff experience is key and drafting top 10 or blaming our success on us being in a rebuild should not be in our vocabulary next year. Will a goalie make us immediate contenders? NO! But that window will be that much shorter.
- Yeah...Baby

You honestly think that you have 3 of the top 20 defensemen in the league on your team? Wow is that ever a homer comment. There are some seriously good players in this league. Take off the Flames goggles dum dum. They are good players but guve me a (frank)ing break!

why is that bridge deal not agreeable?
SUbban's was under 3 and I believe he already had won a Norris
Marcus Johansen's was a 2 year 2mill per deal

I feel the bridge contract for Monahan would definitely be in the 3mill range
the debate would be how much is he worth in 2 years? Technically you shoudn't be offering more just because he had a bridge contract....his deal then would be what would be market value at that time
who knows, maybe contracts don't rise that much given the cap and revenue streams in a couple years
- cpltanto

Would you really want to insult the kid with an offer like that? Give him his 6-7 mill and don't look back. He's a stud and well worth it.

You honestly think that you have 3 of the top 20 defensemen in the league on your team? Wow is that ever a homer comment. There are some seriously good players in this league. Take off the Flames goggles dum dum. They are good players but guve me a (frank)ing break!
- Ihatebrianburke

And the 20 d men you rank higher then Gio Brodie and Dougie are?

I agree there is definitely flaws in my point; there is much more than just your top 2 players that win you the cup. I remember reading that much of the Blackhawks success can be attributed to the fact they have been able to constantly have a large portion of their bottom 6 signed to cap friendly contracts. They have never been afraid to trade those guys once they were ready to receive more on the open market. I think as long as you have decent drafting and development within the organization you should be able to recycle those players into the bottom 6 as needed.

Our Bottom 6 keepers

Mikael Backlund
Joe Colborne as long as he can be signed at 1.5 to 1.75m
Michael Ferland. Disappointing season but I’m hoping the coaching change has a positive effect on him. I would imagine Bob would have been very hard on him
Josh Jooris.
Deryk Engelland. Didn’t he play both forward and defensive positions in Pittsburgh? If so it would be nice to have him in the bottom pairing if we could somehow trick some team into taking Bollig.

The rest should be completely expendable an make room to be able to spend on your top 6.
- Yeah...Baby

I think Ferland will be an interesting case. He got concussed early on in the season and never really recovered. Hope he rebounds, if not might fetch a first from Vancouver (which could be a lottery pick).

I am hoping with the coming of the best draft pick in the first round of of 2012 (looking at you Janko) that Backlund will be tradable. He should fetch a decent return.

I have been one of Colborne's biggest critics but I hope he gets a fair couple year contract so he can prove me wrong as having a guy like him that can slide up when needed is useful.

Gotta make space for Hathaway, Pribyl, Porier, Arnold, H. Smith and Pollock.

I would not mind if Flames went after and overpaid Matt Martin. He would bring all kinda Nasty to the bottom 6.

As for Engelland have not seen him play Forward. Hope he gets some time in this year.

And the 20 d men you rank higher then Gio Brodie and Dougie are?
- CapeBreton_er

OEL, Chara, Faulk, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Eric Johnson, Kronwall, Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Webber, Josi, Larsson, McDonaugh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Burns, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Stralman, Carlson, Byfuglien... Brodie, Giordano.

That's who I would say are the 30 best defensemen in the NHL. Hamilton doesn't belong on the list and you can't tell me that all 3 of your dmen are better than all of these guys. You just can't.

OEL, Chara, Faulk, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Eric Johnson, Kronwall, Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Webber, Josi, Larsson, McDonaugh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Burns, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Stralman, Carlson, Byfuglien... Brodie, Giordano.

That's who I would say are the 30 best defensemen in the NHL. Hamilton doesn't belong on the list and you can't tell me that all 3 of your dmen are better than all of these guys. You just can't. Too hard to put into a top 20
- Ihatebrianburke

OEL, Chara, Faulk, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Eric Johnson, Kronwall, Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Webber, Josi, Larsson, McDonaugh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Burns, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Stralman, Carlson, Byfuglien... Brodie, Giordano.

That's who I would say are the 30 best defensemen in the NHL. Hamilton doesn't belong on the list and you can't tell me that all 3 of your dmen are better than all of these guys. You just can't.
- Ihatebrianburke

https://www.nhl.com/news/...tering-offseason/c-762046

We will leave it up to the professionals! But thanks for coming out! And I guess according to NHL.com we got 4! Now beat it yeah zit.

https://www.nhl.com/news/fantasy-top-60-defenseman-ranks-entering-offseason/c-762046

We will leave it up to the professionals! But thanks for coming out! And I guess according to NHL.com we got 4! Now beat it yeah zit.
- Yeah...Baby

I like Hamilton but he's not top 30...yet.

https://www.nhl.com/news/fantasy-top-60-defenseman-ranks-entering-offseason/c-762046

We will leave it up to the professionals! But thanks for coming out! And I guess according to NHL.com we got 4! Now beat it yeah zit.
- Yeah...Baby

You're an idiot if you believe that. End of story.

You're an idiot if you believe that. End of story.
- Ihatebrianburke

Actually that list although not perfect is a hell of alot closer than yours lol
If you ask any team in this league if they'd rather have Chara or Hamilton, no one takes Chara.
Same with Kronwall due to age and point in his career... Bouwmeester? Hahaha please

Ghost is intriguing, if he can reproduce his rookie season sure, but until then I'm not putting him in the top 20 dmen in the league. I'm not saying the Flames definitely have 3 of the top 20 or 30 dmen in the league, but it's not as far fetched as you make it sound. Especially if youre stretching with names like THAT on your own list lol

OEL, Chara, Faulk, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Eric Johnson, Kronwall, Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Webber, Josi, Larsson, McDonaugh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Burns, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Stralman, Carlson, Byfuglien... Brodie, Giordano.

That's who I would say are the 30 best defensemen in the NHL. Hamilton doesn't belong on the list and you can't tell me that all 3 of your dmen are better than all of these guys. You just can't.
- Ihatebrianburke

Its a good list but I tend to agree with Yeah..Baby. I would take Gio and Brodie over a lot of those guys and Dougie over at least 5. Not trying to be a homer but......lol

Its a good list but I tend to agree with Yeah..Baby. I would take Gio and Brodie over a lot of those guys and Dougie over at least 5. Not trying to be a homer but......lol
- CapeBreton_er

Oil fans know there Defenceman, kinda like dudes that have not been laid in 3 years know their porn sites!

Oil fans know there Defenceman, kinda like dudes that have not been laid in 3 years know their porn sites!
- DuranDuran

most logical oil fans know what they are missing and they know they can have all the firepower in the world but ya gotta have good D in front of Talbot. Talbot I think is a legit starter. If the oil make some big moves for 1 or 2 top D men they could really take the west.

most logical oil fans know what they are missing and they know they can have all the firepower in the world but ya gotta have good D in front of Talbot. Talbot I think is a legit starter. If the oil make some big moves for 1 or 2 top D men they could really take the west.
- CapeBreton_er

Just to add to this......i think McDavid and Drai are the best young 1/2 punch in the league and i think that makes RNH trade Bait. Eberle too to a degree as I think he is a bit overrated. Great player but not worth the contract

Oil fans know there Defenceman, kinda like dudes that have not been laid in 3 years know their porn sites!
- DuranDuran

Ya because I cheer for the Oilers who have a bad defense I don't have the knowledge of having played and watched hockey my entire life. Good one.

Its a good list but I tend to agree with Yeah..Baby. I would take Gio and Brodie over a lot of those guys and Dougie over at least 5. Not trying to be a homer but......lol
- CapeBreton_er

I had both Brodie and Giordano listed with those guys. Not Dougie. Not yet anyways. He could get there. I wanted to land him in that trade at the draft last year. Exactly what the Oilers need. A big top 4 right shot dman.

Ya because I cheer for the Oilers who have a bad defense I don't have the knowledge of having played and watched hockey my entire life. Good one.
- Ihatebrianburke

Somebody's moon blood is flowing. It was a joke. I now know that during full moon's you are a little sensitive and will refrain from engaging you in senseless banter.

P.S. Dudes who have not been laid in three years know porn sited. Just ask Ruts!

OEL, Chara, Faulk, Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson, Eric Johnson, Kronwall, Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Webber, Josi, Larsson, McDonaugh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Burns, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Stralman, Carlson, Byfuglien... Brodie, Giordano.

That's who I would say are the 30 best defensemen in the NHL. Hamilton doesn't belong on the list and you can't tell me that all 3 of your dmen are better than all of these guys. You just can't.
- Ihatebrianburke

The only ones I would actually take in front of our 3 would be:
Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Weber, Burns, Karlsson, Hedman, BigBuff
Others might be more on equal footing and a wash
Guys like Chara, Kronwall, Keith, Seabrook are getting older and I wouldn't trade them straight up for a guy like Brodie (yes, Keith and Seabrook are Gio's age so )

most logical oil fans know what they are missing and they know they can have all the firepower in the world but ya gotta have good D in front of Talbot. Talbot I think is a legit starter. If the oil make some big moves for 1 or 2 top D men they could really take the west.
- CapeBreton_er

all2 of them.

I have proposed this question several times on here and its sparked some conversation with regards to when the “Re-Build,’’ should be complete in our eyes. There is a fine line in there where GM’s need to take chances and peruse players via trade or FA to get you over the hump. Now this isn’t perfect science but I will try my best to keep this as factual as possible.

I believe that there is a short window as to when you should be competing for, and or winning the ultimate prize. The easiest place to start with, would be your number 1 and 2 players age.

Cup winners for the last 10 years.

Carolina Hurricanes 2005-2006, Top 2 players, Eric Stall first NHL season, Justin Williams 2nd.
Anaheim Ducks 2006-2007 Top 2 Players, Ryan Getzlaf 2nd NHL season, Corey Perry 1st NHL season
Detroit Red Wings 2007-2008 Top 2 Players, Pavel Datsyuk 5th NHL season, Henrik Zetterberg 5th NHL season
Pittsburgh Penguins 2008-2009 Top 2 Players, Sidney Crosby 4th NHL season, Evegeni Malkin 4th NHL season
Chicago Blackhawks 2009-2010 Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 3rd NHL Season, Patrick Kane 3rd season
Boston Bruins 2010-2011, Top 2 players, Patrice Bergeron 6th NHL season, Milan Lucic 4th NHL season
Los Angeles Kings 2011-2012, Top 2 players, Anze Kopitar 6 years, Drew Doughty 3rd NHL Season.
Chicago Blackhawks 2012-2013, Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 7th NHL seasons, Patrick Kane 7th NHL seasons
Los Angeles Kings 2013-2014 Top 2 players, Anze Kopitar 8th NHL seasons, Drew Doughty 5th NHL seasons
Chicago Blackhawks 2014-2015 Top 2 players, Johnathan Toes 9th NHL seasons, Patrick Kane 9th NHL seasons

This year’s guess

Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby 11th NHL season, Evegni Malkin 11th NHL seasons. Exception? Not really they're both around 28 years old.

The NHL is a young man’s game and maybe salary cap plays a large part as well. In my opinion I believe that Johnny is top 10 LW in the league, Money is a top 20 center and Gio, Brodie, Hamilton are top 20 defense. I am of the belief that I would gladly throw the top 6 pick for a top 10, up and coming goalie. Playoff experience is key and drafting top 10 or blaming our success on us being in a rebuild should not be in our vocabulary next year. Will a goalie make us immediate contenders? NO! But that window will be that much shorter.
- Yeah...Baby

Ummm....this is dumb. You just picked the two best young players on those cup winners to fit your narrative. Perry and Getzlaf were great but not the best on that team, that was Sellanne, Pronger and Neidermeyer, and your suggesting that Lucic was > Chara when the Bruins won?

The whole basis of your statement was a bunch of Malarkey.

all2 of them.
- TandA4Flames

For a guy that trolls the Oilers threads as often as you, you know there's not many dreamers left among the regs.

The only ones I would actually take in front of our 3 would be:
Ekblad, Doughty, Suter, Subban, Weber, Burns, Karlsson, Hedman, BigBuff
Others might be more on equal footing and a wash
Guys like Chara, Kronwall, Keith, Seabrook are getting older and I wouldn't trade them straight up for a guy like Brodie (yes, Keith and Seabrook are Gio's age so )
- cpltanto

I wouldn't trade Hamilton for any of those older guys, even tho they are better...Hamilton has the potential to be a top D man, but he's not in the top 30 yet. Top 90 for sure but almost every team in the league has at least 1 or 2 or even 3 D that are better...Christ even the Oilers have the far superior Oscar Klefbom.

Ummm....this is dumb. You just picked the two best young players on those cup winners to fit your narrative. Perry and Getzlaf were great but not the best on that team, that was Sellanne, Pronger and Neidermeyer, and your suggesting that Lucic was > Chara when the Bruins won?

The whole basis of your statement was a bunch of Malarkey.
- Jeropotato

Selanne, Neidererrmeyer and Pronger were all brought in 2 years prior to them winning the cup! Thank you for reiterating what I was saying. When you have good players that you internally draft your management has what I believe to be a 10 year window to get them to succeed or at the very least get them playoff experience. This experience alone if it fails at first will allow the rookies to take over the teams and become captains and slowly mentor young up and comers very early. My List only consists of players that are now considered to be superstars and players that were drafted by the club.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the teams that are always in the mix are somehow able to draft so well! Maybe that’s because these same teams have young kids that always end up being drafted very late in the draft but are consistently exposed to playoff hockey from the beginning.

Milan Lucic led the team in scoring that year by more than a few goals by the way.

The idea is to spark conversation and look at a different perspective on the term “rebuild, ” not to be called Dumb! What is wrong with you people? This is a place to come and talk hockey and although we don’t agree on who are favorite teams are, or who we put in the top 30, providing feedback for your beliefs rather than calling someone “Stupid” or “dumb.”

You usually come on here and provide decent discussion (while sometimes trying to provoke people) so I will put this back towards the oilers. If it wasn’t for McDavid the oilers would likely be starting a Re-build within a Rebuild due to salary cap situation in the next 3 years. Now that you have McDavid by all accounts the oilers are willing to deal some of their once prized possessions. Your team has a luxury that 29 other teams in the league do not have. The cost was a decade of underachieving players that maybe under the right circumstances would have been further ahead, had they dealt some of their picks instead of being so star gazed at the next shinny toy. Based on all the rumors out there with the oilers it sounds like that pick is for sale this year. Why? Because you management is finally willing to surround McDavid and company with players that know how to win.

We all might not agree that Calgary has three of the top 30 D in the league but even as an Oil fan we could all probably agree that the Achilles heel was our goaltending. If the opportunity presents itself to trade for a player or sign a FA I’m for the idea at this stage in our re-build. I think the experience of getting our players in the playoffs even if they don’t win will inevitably allow our new guys to eventually take the torch.

Again not perfect science grammar or spelling!

I wouldn't trade Hamilton for any of those older guys, even tho they are better...Hamilton has the potential to be a top D man, but he's not in the top 30 yet. Top 90 for sure but almost every team in the league has at least 1 or 2 or even 3 D that are better...Christ even the Oilers have the far superior Oscar Klefbom.
- Jeropotato

You mean that guy that passes more time on the IR than in games?