If he plays on that line all year he actually might bring in a decent return at the trade deadline. Actually (frank), if he gets top 6 minutes next to McD why would he want to leave?
- RonPielep

Except no one will be fooled by numbers put up with McDavid. For a guy who has largely been incapable of producing numbers both at 5-on-5 or on the PP, people aren't suddenly going to forget his history.

If he plays on that line all year he actually might bring in a decent return at the trade deadline. Actually (frank), if he gets top 6 minutes next to McD why would he want to leave?
- RonPielep

Nnnnnnnnnnnope
- MaximumBone

Why not? Both those lines tore it up when they were together last season. Also, Ebs is much more expensive than Yak and also has much more trade value.

Except no one will be fooled by numbers put up with McDavid. For a guy who has largely been incapable of producing numbers both at 5-on-5 or on the PP, people aren't suddenly going to forget his history.
- MaximumBone

Except all the people who are seemingly fooled by numbers that Ebs put up with McD?

Ebs on the third line was not a productive player either.

Also Yak's history is definitely a mixed bag. He has proven himself a capable producer for significant stretches when given the right circumstances but he has also gone super cold for long stretches which are not helped by the coaching staff having 0 faith in him, giving him a much shorter leash than Ebs, causing him to spend most of those cold streaks playing bottom 6 minutes where it's no wonder he won't produce.

Zhamnov didn't want to say out of respect to the Oilers he claims. I don't know how to post an article but Staples wrote one the other day about it. Yak claims it's bullpoop
- Ihatebrianburke

Except all the people who are seemingly fooled by numbers that Ebs put up with McD?

Ebs on the third line was not a productive player either.
- RonPielep

You just had to edit your post and make mine invalid, didn't you.

Oh well...

Assuming Draisaitl can fill the role of 2C consistently all season, big assumption.

Also assuming McD doesn't go down with another injury next season, big assumption.

Wouldn't be banking my season on those two things. Could easily turn out like the season before last when the Oil didn't have a 2C until they picked up Roy.
- RonPielep

Is it, though? Is it really a huge doubt that Leon will be capable of producing 40-50 points next year and carry play effectively when he'll get to play with Hall for most of the year?

Not a huge assumption to say McDavid won't suffer another long term injury next year. Most players get through most seasons without major injuries.

Is it, though? Is it really a huge doubt that Leon will be capable of producing 40-50 points next year and carry play effectively when he'll get to play with Hall for most of the year?

Not a huge assumption to say McDavid won't suffer another long term injury next year. Most players get through most seasons without major injuries.
- MaximumBone

They just don't play for the Oilers.

Except all the people who are seemingly fooled by numbers that Ebs put up with McD?

Ebs on the third line was not a productive player either.

Also Yak's history is definitely a mixed bag. He has proven himself a capable producer for significant stretches when given the right circumstances but he has also gone super cold for long stretches which are not helped by the coaching staff having 0 faith in him, giving him a much shorter leash than Ebs, causing him to spend most of those cold streaks playing bottom 6 minutes where it's no wonder he won't produce.
- RonPielep

Eberle has put up numbers with Nuge and has ALWAYS produced on the PP. It's the latter point that no one ever seems to address when arguing for Yak. He constantly tries to do too much and never learns from his mistakes. Sure, he has energy and a hard shot, but when it misses the net (80% of the time) and rings around the boards all the way down the ice, it's a detriment to the team. Both PP units are chalk full of talented players that he should be more than capable of producing with and yet he can't.

Eberle has produced without McDavid though. Excepting his rookie season, Yak well... hasn't.
- Wildschwein

From my memory Yak has produced with Horcoff (1st year), Roy (year before last) and McD (last year). His opportunities to succeed as a part of the top 6 apart from those examples were few and far between and he was never given the leash other top 6 players like Ebs have been allowed.

That's probably because when Yak (frank)s up it is in the most blatant Jultzy way possible...

His consistency issues ooze inexperience and low IQ, not lack of effort, so that could explain why coaches immediately think he should be demoted to the bottom 6 when he has a cold stretch.

You just had to edit your post and make mine invalid, didn't you.

Oh well...


- Wildschwein

Why not? Both those lines tore it up when they were together last season. Also, Ebs is much more expensive than Yak and also has much more trade value.
- RonPielep

Because Yak has A.) requested a trade, B.) actively voiced his displeasure with management and coaching, and C.) is ineffective when not tied to McDavid's hip. Using something you mentioned early, what happens when McDavid goes down? He's not effective with anyone else so we'd be losing two players. I'm sick of wasting time and roster space on a bad player that doesn't learn.

From my memory Yak has produced with Horcoff (1st year), Roy (year before last) and McD (last year). His opportunities to succeed as a part of the top 6 apart from those examples were few and far between and he was never given the leash other top 6 players like Ebs have been allowed.

That's probably because when Yak (frank)s up it is in the most blatant Jultzy way possible...

His consistency issues ooze inexperience and low IQ, not lack of effort, so that could explain why coaches immediately think he should be demoted to the bottom 6 when he has a cold stretch.
- RonPielep

Because when Ebs got here, their only other feasible RW option was a bandaid. When Yak arrived, he arrived behind an Eberle who already had a 76 point season under his belt.

I think the bolded is the root of the problem coaches have with Yak. Every other player manages to tone it down and play simpler and when they don't, they still don't screw up as remarkably as Yak manages to. Can you really blame a coach for not wanting a mistake machine playing in your top-6?

Is it, though? Is it really a huge doubt that Leon will be capable of producing 40-50 points next year and carry play effectively when he'll get to play with Hall for most of the year?

Not a huge assumption to say McDavid won't suffer another long term injury next year. Most players get through most seasons without major injuries.
- MaximumBone

He has one year of solid play under his belt, so did Yak (I know they aren't the same), it's always a big assumption when the sample size is that small and a player is only 19.

Considering you are banking your teams 1C and 2C positions on it I would say those are both big assumptions, let's just say McD doesn't have a track record of being a robust player at this point, so of course it's a risk any diligent GM should consider, especially after watching what happened to the center depth last year.

From my memory Yak has produced with Horcoff (1st year), Roy (year before last) and McD (last year). His opportunities to succeed as a part of the top 6 apart from those examples were few and far between and he was never given the leash other top 6 players like Ebs have been allowed.

That's probably because when Yak (frank)s up it is in the most blatant Jultzy way possible...

His consistency issues ooze inexperience and low IQ, not lack of effort, so that could explain why coaches immediately think he should be demoted to the bottom 6 when he has a cold stretch.
- RonPielep

A 7 game sample size where he played with Hall and Horcoff. That line managed awful Corsi numbers and is only anecdotally quoted because he scored 6 goals in the last three games of that trial. Otherwise, the line didn't look great.

Because Yak has A.) requested a trade, B.) actively voiced his displeasure with management and coaching, and C.) is ineffective when not tied to McDavid's hip. Using something you mentioned early, what happens when McDavid goes down? He's not effective with anyone else so we'd be losing two players. I'm sick of wasting time and roster space on a bad player that doesn't learn.
- MaximumBone

Well said sir!

Because Yak has A.) requested a trade, B.) actively voiced his displeasure with management and coaching, and C.) is ineffective when not tied to McDavid's hip. Using something you mentioned early, what happens when McDavid goes down? He's not effective with anyone else so we'd be losing two players. I'm sick of wasting time and roster space on a bad player that doesn't learn.
- MaximumBone

But he is learning. And he's not expensive. And he's well liked in the city. Everyone has a story of Yak reaching out to fans to do nice things.

Chia already said he may go but hes not giving him away. He said he wants a fair trade. And glad not giving him away as some want. Willis did a good write up.

http://edmontonjournal.co...er-off-without-each-other

Eberle has put up numbers with Nuge and has ALWAYS produced on the PP. It's the latter point that no one ever seems to address when arguing for Yak. He constantly tries to do too much and never learns from his mistakes. Sure, he has energy and a hard shot, but when it misses the net (80% of the time) and rings around the boards all the way down the ice, it's a detriment to the team. Both PP units are chalk full of talented players that he should be more than capable of producing with and yet he can't.
- MaximumBone

Not saying I don't take your word for it because I've actually observed something similar but I wonder what the actual numbers would have to say about each players amount of PP opportunities (and on which unit) as well as their production on PP.

If Yak isn't a viable PP option he could be replaced by a big body in front like Maroon. I wonder what Yak's production was like when he was on that line with McD last year (considering that's the only production stat relevant to this convo).

A 7 game sample size where he played with Hall and Horcoff. That line managed awful Corsi numbers and is only anecdotally quoted because he scored 6 goals in the last three games of that trial. Otherwise, the line didn't look great.
- MaximumBone

My bad, who was the center he played with most in 1st year then when he put up good numbers?

He has one year of solid play under his belt, so did Yak (I know they aren't the same), it's always a big assumption when the sample size is that small and a player is only 19.

Considering you are banking your teams 1C and 2C positions on it I would say those are both big assumptions, let's just say McD doesn't have a track record of being a robust player at this point, so of course it's a risk any diligent GM should consider, especially after watching what happened to the center depth last year.
- RonPielep

I'm not advocating for not having replacements or stronger C depth, just that I don't think we can avoid any deal to improve our backend simply because the opposition would rather have RNH than Eberle. If that occurs, then I full well expect Chiarelli to pursue a number of C-capable players like Shaw, Sheahan, Berglund, Wingels, Perreault, and Lewis. I'd aim to acquire at least 2, maybe 3, of those guys in light of a Nuge trade.

Because Yak has A.) requested a trade, B.) actively voiced his displeasure with management and coaching, and C.) is ineffective when not tied to McDavid's hip. Using something you mentioned early, what happens when McDavid goes down? He's not effective with anyone else so we'd be losing two players. I'm sick of wasting time and roster space on a bad player that doesn't learn.
- MaximumBone

How long ago were A and B? I thought that was the year before last and if there is new rumors about it I haven't seen any evidence yet.

Again, this narrative that Yak has only produced with McDavid isn't exactly true. There are other centers he produced with (Roy and whoever from 1st year) and I would argue his production is more a function of being used effectively and consistently in a top 6 roll vs. tied to Lander or Letestu on the bottom 6.

My bad, who was the center he played with most in 1st year then when he put up good numbers?
- RonPielep

Gagner if I recall correctly. Even then, his numbers weren't exceptional with Gagner. That season, he actually produced on the PP (6G and 10P).

How long ago were A and B? I thought that was the year before last and if there is new rumors about it I haven't seen any evidence yet.

Again, this narrative that Yak has only produced with McDavid isn't exactly true. There are other centers he produced with (Roy and whoever from 1st year) and I would argue his production is more a function of being used effectively and consistently in a top 6 roll vs. tied to Lander or Letestu on the bottom 6.
- RonPielep

He didn't express displeasure with management or coaching as I recall but his trade request was made just before the deadline this year.

I'm not advocating for not having replacements or stronger C depth, just that I don't think we can avoid any deal to improve our backend simply because the opposition would rather have RNH than Eberle. If that occurs, then I full well expect Chiarelli to pursue a number of C-capable players like Shaw, Sheahan, Berglund, Wingels, Perreault, and Lewis. I'd aim to acquire at least 2, maybe 3, of those guys in light of a Nuge trade.
- MaximumBone

To me it depends on the quality of D coming in for Nuge. I'm not saying the world will end if we trade Nuge just that I'd prefer to use Ebs and the 4OA as trade bait beforehand. If Nuge is a necessity to go in order to get a high quality top pairing young RD then I am okay with that. I just don't see any of them available that I don't think Ebs and the 4OA with maybe some other small adds wouldn't grab.

But he is learning. And he's not expensive. And he's well liked in the city. Everyone has a story of Yak reaching out to fans to do nice things.

Chia already said he may go but hes not giving him away. He said he wants a fair trade. And glad not giving him away as some want. Willis did a good write up.

http://edmontonjournal.co...er-off-without-each-other
- Iggysbff

I can't possibly see how. Even in the latter half of the season he'd constantly force plays up the ice without consideration for the turnover that might (or in his case, would) occur. He's a cluster(frank) of talent that doesn't know how to focus or apply himself properly.