But the Pens might win the cup with Kessel.

You pretty much need a balanced team but there's absolutely room for pure offense guys in the NHL right now. Your entire team doesn't have to be filled with Toews type guys. You need guys who can score. You need guys who can play defense. You need guys who can do both too.
- daeth

i agree... but kessel is horrible defensively

regardless of any argument for him, he was traded 2x now, there is a reason for that

first time is because he felt he was worth more than he was worth... so boston said (frank) you we dont need you. the argument that the leafs moved kessel to create culture change... thats absurd.. the leadership core was still in place at the start of the season.

note kessel was traded about a month and half (not even) after babcock was hired? do you not think he had some sort of say in this deal? babcock likely studied the tapes and likely advised that kessel wasnt even worth working with. coupled with the fact that the previsou coaches likely met with shanahan multiple times throughout the season and my guess is that there was a common theme when it came to analysis of his play.

scoring goals is how you win games lol
- daeth

Leafs need to build a team that wins every game 0-0 ...just defense the poop out of them until they surrender

i agree... but kessel is horrible defensively

regardless of any argument for him, he was traded 2x now, there is a reason for that

first time is because he felt he was worth more than he was worth... so boston said (frank) you we dont need you. the argument that the leafs moved kessel to create culture change... thats absurd.. the leadership core was still in place at the start of the season.

note kessel was traded about a month and half (not even) after babcock was hired? do you not think he had some sort of say in this deal? babcock likely studied the tapes and likely advised that kessel wasnt even worth working with. coupled with the fact that the previsou coaches likely met with shanahan multiple times throughout the season and my guess is that there was a common theme when it came to analysis of his play.
- Dozzer

I respectfully disagree and think he was traded as was Phaneuf, Winnik , Polak etc to get a shot at Matthews.

Thankfully they got lucky.

He played hard and aggressive from the red line in.
- Atomic Wedgie

and in todays league... that wouldnt work

there is a reason they are trying to adjust the rules to increase scoring... defenses and team systems are simply better than they ever have been.... the "pure goal scorer" role will be gone in time...likely sooner than later.

I respectfully disagree and think he was traded as was Phaneuf, Winnik , Polak etc to get a shot at Matthews.

Thankfully they got lucky.
- Rang

no... they went into seller mode closer to the deadline once babcock decided who was worth keeping long term or not

they at least got a shot to be part of the team moving forward

kessel was shown the door immediately... there is a reason for that

i agree... but kessel is horrible defensively

regardless of any argument for him, he was traded 2x now, there is a reason for that

first time is because he felt he was worth more than he was worth... so boston said (frank) you we dont need you. the argument that the leafs moved kessel to create culture change... thats absurd.. the leadership core was still in place at the start of the season.

note kessel was traded about a month and half (not even) after babcock was hired? do you not think he had some sort of say in this deal? babcock likely studied the tapes and likely advised that kessel wasnt even worth working with. coupled with the fact that the previsou coaches likely met with shanahan multiple times throughout the season and my guess is that there was a common theme when it came to analysis of his play.
- Dozzer

I agree with what you are saying, but I also like what the Pens ended up doing with him. They tried the Crosby, Malkin combinations, but realized that he didn't work with those guys and the system the coach was expecting out of them. So they built a line based on speed that works well off the rush, and use them at the appropriate times throughout the game. It is working quite effectively thus far.

You probably don't draft Matthews if Kessel is in the lineup so there's that. I wouldn't mind having Kessel on the team now that they seem to have their #1C but that's obviously not possible.
- daeth

Two more years and I'll agree with you.

i agree... but kessel is horrible defensively

regardless of any argument for him, he was traded 2x now, there is a reason for that

first time is because he felt he was worth more than he was worth... so boston said (frank) you we dont need you. the argument that the leafs moved kessel to create culture change... thats absurd.. the leadership core was still in place at the start of the season.

note kessel was traded about a month and half (not even) after babcock was hired? do you not think he had some sort of say in this deal? babcock likely studied the tapes and likely advised that kessel wasnt even worth working with. coupled with the fact that the previsou coaches likely met with shanahan multiple times throughout the season and my guess is that there was a common theme when it came to analysis of his play.
- Dozzer

I have to disagree. It sent a message. 'You're not going to float and make $8 million playing in Club Med and not work.....so you're gone.' That's changing culture.

no... they went into seller mode closer to the deadline once babcock decided who was worth keeping long term or not

they at least got a shot to be part of the team moving forward

kessel was shown the door immediately... there is a reason for that
- Dozzer

The same reason Larry Murphy was?

I agree with what you are saying, but I also like what the Pens ended up doing with him. They tried the Crosby, Malkin combinations, but realized that he didn't work with those guys and the system the coach was expecting out of them. So they built a line based on speed that works well off the rush, and use them at the appropriate times throughout the game. It is working quite effectively thus far.
- vermie22

this is exactly my point

do you honestly think babcock would abandon his game plan to build a line that worked with how kessel wanted to play?

no f'n chance in hell

to have to do that with a player is ludicrous... kessel is a selfish player who thinks he is bigger than the coaching staff.

once that guy starts to lose a step he will be out of the league faster than you can spit.

he's averaging about 18min a game so no, not really.
- Dozzer

so he's not sucking dirty pond water after every shift.
he been a monster during these playoff. -- in my best Pierre McGuire voice

I have to disagree. It sent a message. 'You're not going to float and make $8 million playing in Club Med and not work.....so you're gone.' That's changing culture.
- Phenom

i saw it more as

this is the culture we want to create

we know kessel wont buy in already

move him.

selfish player...plain and simple

So a guy can be the team leader in playoff scoring in only 13-14 minutes a night, and you think Pittsburgh has a problem on their hands?

This is why Toronto can't have nice things.

Kessel sucks.

Soshnikov and Komarov are the guys you win Stanley Cups with.

That's it, I'm deleting my account.

People who want Wedgie Wisdom ™ can PM me and I will send it to them, or something like that.
- Atomic Wedgie

post them in here?

so he's not sucking dirty pond water after every shift.
he been a monster during these playoff. -- in my best Pierre McGuire voice
- zazzle

once again... playing against secondary defenses and on the PP is basically spoon feeding him all the best opportunities for success.

his production doesnt impress me one bit.

i saw it more as

this is the culture we want to create

we know kessel wont buy in already

move him.

selfish player...plain and simple
- Dozzer

Seriously...you are making a lot of assumptions and stating them as fact.

Seriously...you are making a lot of assumptions and stating them as fact.
- stormey

i stated "i saw it more as"

which is more than adequate way to state that "this is my opinion"

this is exactly my point

do you honestly think babcock would abandon his game plan to build a line that worked with how kessel wanted to play?

no f'n chance in hell

to have to do that with a player is ludicrous... kessel is a selfish player who thinks he is bigger than the coaching staff.

once that guy starts to lose a step he will be out of the league faster than you can spit.
- Dozzer

babcock would not do it for sure, but don't think it's ludicrous. They took an asset and found the best way to utilize it in a effective manner. To me that is better coaching then expecting all assets to all be the same and even worse, expect them to play in a manner that ultimately weakens their strengths.

i saw it more as

this is the culture we want to create

we know kessel wont buy in already

move him.

selfish player...plain and simple
- Dozzer

I agree, very selfish and that won't be tolerated as it has been with previous regimes. = culture change.

kessel is a great offensive weapon

but he is a (frank)ing poopty hockey player.

i am done with this nonsense..... i am so glad he's gone... REALLY glad

and in todays league... that wouldnt work

there is a reason they are trying to adjust the rules to increase scoring... defenses and team systems are simply better than they ever have been.... the "pure goal scorer" role will be gone in time...likely sooner than later.
- Dozzer

Doesn't your argument support the notion that as time goes on, guys like Kessel will be even more valuable?

Laine aint smiling now..

And Dumba (frank)ing sucks... wheres Rielly?

i agree... but kessel is horrible defensively

regardless of any argument for him, he was traded 2x now, there is a reason for that

first time is because he felt he was worth more than he was worth... so boston said (frank) you we dont need you. the argument that the leafs moved kessel to create culture change... thats absurd.. the leadership core was still in place at the start of the season.

note kessel was traded about a month and half (not even) after babcock was hired? do you not think he had some sort of say in this deal? babcock likely studied the tapes and likely advised that kessel wasnt even worth working with. coupled with the fact that the previsou coaches likely met with shanahan multiple times throughout the season and my guess is that there was a common theme when it came to analysis of his play.
- Dozzer

When they (Shanahan, Babcock, Lou) talk about the rebuild they sound pretty realistic when it comes to a potential cup timeline. Pain, etc lol. With Kessel's fitness it's probably not unfair to assume he may decline early and that huge contract would be a PITA if he's on the decline as the Leafs start trying to win playoff rounds and re-sign young players.

That combined with the chance of getting a better pick without a top end scorer could've put them in a position to act fast. At the time I didn't think they should rush to trade him but they got lucky with the #1 pick so yay.

If we won the lottery last year & drafted McDavid, is Kessel still on this team?

once again... playing against secondary defenses and on the PP is basically spoon feeding him all the best opportunities for success.

his production doesnt impress me one bit.
- Dozzer

So guys playing on the 3rd line are getting better opportunities for success than guys on the 1st line?

kessel is a great offensive weapon

but he is a (frank)ing poopty hockey player.

i am done with this nonsense..... i am so glad he's gone... REALLY glad
- Dozzer

Pens fans love the hell out of him.