17:13 in the playoffs, a good minute less than he got in toronto that time they fluked a playoff appearance.

he seems able to produce in any situation.
- daeth

I think the 13 minutes is 5 on 5.

I think the 13 minutes is 5 on 5.
- LeafMan

17 minutes 13 seconds!

Agreed, unless he can find his way into the top 6 next year
- pinksocked

he wont

this is why when you evaluate a player based on production only its seriously flawed.

kessel likes to carry the puck into the zone

so does crosby and malkin

a line needs a guy who will go in front of the net... a dirty work guy (along the boards for instance) and a guy to carry the puck in and set up the play

usually thats a center... and its why kessel never seems to mesh well with good centers and coaches end up having to play him with grinders who are willing to do whatever they are told.

coaches need to build their attack around kessel's preferences... he's a pain in the ass for coaches and thats why he is gone.

if he was playing other top lines and top defenses he woulnt be producing at this pace

period

his success is mostly situational.
- Dozzer

C'mon, he played against other top lines when he was on the Leafs and he produced at this pace.

Funny you should say that, of all the game winning goals this playoff season, how many have been scored by star players? I'm curious to see.
- LeafMan

so a numerical comparison involving a subjective group...this will go well

Komarov doing his thing vs Canada right now, hitting everyone and pissing them off, drawing a penalty and working down low on the PP

Yup. And a vagina
- systemtool

Go on

Funny you should say that, of all the game winning goals this playoff season, how many have been scored by star players? I'm curious to see.
- LeafMan

Let's start with the GWG in game seven for the Pens - Kessel set the entire thing up, and would have banged it in himself if the other guy hadn't got there first.

So Kessel was about a half-second away from a hat trick in a game 7.

Let's start there.

Let's start with the GWG in game seven for the Pens - Kessel set the entire thing up, and would have banged it in himself if the other guy hadn't got there first.

So Kessel was about a half-second away from a hat trick in a game 7.

Let's start there.
- Atomic Wedgie

Close only counts in horseshoes.

I'll let Pittsburgh know they should be unhappy with him.

Think they'll put an asterisk next to his name when they engrave it on the cup?

- - - - - - - - -

By the way, I first typed Asterix - will probably do that until the day I die.
- Atomic Wedgie

judging a player based on offensive production only is short sighted.

he plays the way he wants and it has been reported before that he isnt coachable

why do you think both boston and toronto felt it best to move on from him? in a league where "elite" talent is rarely moved he certainly has been moved a lot.

Let's start with the GWG in game seven for the Pens - Kessel set the entire thing up, and would have banged it in himself if the other guy hadn't got there first.

So Kessel was about a half-second away from a hat trick in a game 7.

Let's start there.
- Atomic Wedgie

i

do

not

care

about

points

not when the rest of his game is nearly non existent.

he wont

this is why when you evaluate a player based on production only its seriously flawed.

kessel likes to carry the puck into the zone

so does crosby and malkin

a line needs a guy who will go in front of the net... a dirty work guy (along the boards for instance) and a guy to carry the puck in and set up the play

usually thats a center... and its why kessel never seems to mesh well with good centers and coaches end up having to play him with grinders who are willing to do whatever they are told.

coaches need to build their attack around kessel's preferences... he's a pain in the ass for coaches and thats why he is gone.
- Dozzer

I've actually suggested for years that they put Kessel back at center.

Would force him to engage in the play more.

It might be a giant flaming train wreck, but what the hell, it would be fun to watch for 10 games.

Close only counts in horseshoes.
- LeafMan

So two goals and an assist on the GWG in OT of game seven sucks?

This

is

why

Toronto

can't

have

nice

things.

C'mon, he played against other top lines when he was on the Leafs and he produced at this pace.
- the_eye

not much anymore... he's predictable so when he is up against talent that matches him now he rarely beats it.

judging a player based on offensive production only is short sighted.

he plays the way he wants and it has been reported before that he isnt coachable

why do you think both boston and toronto felt it best to move on from him? in a league where "elite" talent is rarely moved he certainly has been moved a lot.
- Dozzer

You can't use Boston as good example. Their MO is to move all young elite talent out before they hit their prime, no matter their attitude.

Close only counts in horseshoes.
- LeafMan

And hand grenades

judging a player based on offensive production only is short sighted.

he plays the way he wants and it has been reported before that he isnt coachable

why do you think both boston and toronto felt it best to move on from him? in a league where "elite" talent is rarely moved he certainly has been moved a lot.
- Dozzer

Gretzky was also traded twice

judging a player based on offensive production only is short sighted.

he plays the way he wants and it has been reported before that he isnt coachable

why do you think both boston and toronto felt it best to move on from him? in a league where "elite" talent is rarely moved he certainly has been moved a lot.
- Dozzer

Not to get back on the Wedgie soap box again, but only Canadians think this.

In every other country, it's a winger's job to score.

It's why we don't ever produce scoring wingers in this country.

It's drummed out of them by the the time they are 12 years old.

Kessel was a point a game as the go-to player on the Leafs. He's now the top playoff point producer on a legitimate cup contender in the ECF in a lesser role. The guy is just good. Really good. This is why I always said you can win with Kessel. If you build a team right he's fine on your roster.

So two goals and an assist on the GWG in OT of game seven sucks?

This

is

why

Toronto

can't

have

nice

things.
- Atomic Wedgie

make an argument without bringing up production

lots of guys can put the puck in the net.... but lots of those guys also play relentless defense.

if all you do is score... (frank) off... you arent a complete hockey player... you are a high level pond hockey player

much rather have guys who back check like nuts and make sure their job is done without the puck as well

thats not kessel

make an argument without bringing up production

lots of guys can put the puck in the net.... but lots of those guys also play relentless defense.

if all you do is score... (frank) off... you arent a complete hockey player... you are a high level pond hockey player

much rather have guys who back check like nuts and make sure their job is done without the puck as well

thats not kessel
- Dozzer

scoring goals is how you win games lol

Not to get back on the Wedgie soap box again, but only Canadians think this.

In every other country, it's a winger's job to score.

It's why we don't ever produce scoring wingers in this country.

It's drummed out of them by the the time they are 12 years old.
- Atomic Wedgie

not here tho... here the wingers are supposed to back check hard and work the boards.

go play in europe where its the norm if thats your approach to the ice

And hand grenades
- .HOHO.

That's a pretty violent game.

Gretzky was also traded twice
- drexel

lame argument

gretzky didnt play in the cap era

totally different... i dont accept the gretzky got traded argument any longer

Sorry step in here but why is this a debate?

Can we not agree were in a great position going forward and that trading Kessel and Phaneuf helped get us here?

Sure Kessel looks great on the pens. But on the Leafs he wouldn't even be playing a playoff game. So why bother bringing his playoff performance up?

I for one want either the Sharks or Kessel to win a cup. Love Kessel and miss kessel, never was a hater, but we're in a better position without him. And the wallet.