I think this year's losing is a harder pill to swallow for Hawks fans than any other. The big roster turnover, players shipped out that some think were better than what was used, players/picks/the future shipped out for players not used culminated by a 1st round exit. Add the club crawls deeper into cap hell and the coach and GM seemingly having cohesion problems and a fan is left with a bad taste from this year and worry over the future.

Nobody who is objective likes whiny fans but this off season I do understand the complaining.
- Mr Ricochet

This off season complaining is no different than the whining and complaining that went on after the 2011, 2012 and 2014 seasons. The specifics are different but the basics are the same - Stan screwed up here and Q screwed up there, ad nauseam. The missing balance is (1) every GM and coach make mistakes, and (2) Stan and Q actually do some good stuff too - it's not only bad decision after bad decision.

I understand human nature is give me more, more, more and if the demands aren't met then the whining and complaining will commence, but it is tiresome when a fanbase who has more to be thankful for than any other fanbase in the league over the past 8 seasons continuously focuses on what didn't go right instead of how fortunate we've been.

Aaaaaand where does $5 million a year come from to sign him? And sign Shaw at over $2 million per.

Oh, I forgot, Robin Norell is on the way to solve all the defense and cap problems.

I think it would be pretty smart to sign Panarin now. Whether they can, different story. Keeps coming back to dollars and cents.

Glad someone's got all the answers, though. We can all rest easier tonight.
- John Jaeckel

That's dollars and sense. The sense part is looking at potential cap implications past '16-'17 and addressing them.

I pretend to have zero answers. I do however expect this FO to deal the parts with greatest value.

@ByScottPowers

Stan Bowman has had talks with Richard Panik and expects to re-sign him
- DarthKane

Told ya. The deal will be cap friendly too.

Expect Kempny's deal to be wrapped up next week as well.

Agreed, but we also don't really know what the market was for Drouin one way or the other. I heard Yzerman asked for TT and Bowman resisted including him. FWIW.
- John Jaeckel

Stan probably wouldn't of accepted TT+Rundblad for Drouin. His pet projects HAVE to pan out bc he can't be seen as having missed on an evaluation. Why else would he have resigned that Euro leaguer to a 2yr extension after 2015??

Told ya. The deal will be cap friendly too.

Expect Kempny's deal to be wrapped up next week as well.
- Return of the Roar

Panik's deal should be Cap Friendly considering the guy had 8 points in the NHL last year...though, 4 points got Kruger $3.1mil/year so maybe Panik gets $4mil/yr??

That's dollars and sense. The sense part is looking at potential cap implications past '16-'17 and addressing them.

I pretend to have zero answers. I do however expect this FO to deal the parts with greatest value.
- blackhawk24

First, i was gonna say me too. Then I re-read. Haha.

I just hope they've learned form the last couple of summers. They may have to act boldly this summer so they're not backed into a corner next year trying to get Panarin and TT signed and the entire league knows they're strapped.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt on which players go, which players don't band why—provided they seem to be driving the agenda and not acting at the last minute.

Agreed, but we also don't really know what the market was for Drouin one way or the other. I heard Yzerman asked for TT and Bowman resisted including him. FWIW.
- John Jaeckel

This is one time I hope a source is wrong x1000. On one hand I would think damn StanBowPops&McD you can't be that bad at evaluating. On the other if true and Stevie Y likes TT it makes a fan hopeful.

I don't mind players with sportsmanship qualities as long as they aren't afraid to hit or be hit (as in Rundblad). In fact it may reflect good discipline qualities. Ryan O'Reily being a perfect example as he won the Lady Byng trophy but is no pushover.
- FourOrr

Agreed, but it seems the rare time the Hawks get some muscle/grit it doesn't work out. Gimme a Gudas type and I'll be satisfied for awhile.

This is one time I hope a source is wrong x1000. On one hand I would think damn StanBowPops&McD you can't be that bad at evaluating. On the other if true and Stevie Y likes TT it makes a fan hopeful.
- Mr Ricochet

Same source who tipped me on Vermette last year and the "chain of events" this year, Bickell going down, Kruger re-signed, etc.

At least a handful of teams asked about TT and the Hawks declined last year. Should be interesting to see how it plays out this summer.

Agreed, but it seems the rare time the Hawks get some muscle/grit it doesn't work out. Gimme a Gudas type and I'll be satisfied for awhile.
- Mr Ricochet

I wouldn't mind Nic DesLauriers either

Same source who tipped me on Vermette last year and the "chain of events" this year, Bickell going down, Kruger re-signed, etc.

At least a handful of teams asked about TT and the Hawks declined last year. Should be interesting to see how it plays out this summer.
- John Jaeckel

I wouldn't mind Nic DesLauriers either
- John Jaeckel

Had to look to see if this was the Buffalo kid. Indeed a physical big body that knocks people down.............. But I'd prefer a physical mean Dman who can skate 15-18 minutes a night on the bottom pair.

This off season complaining is no different than the whining and complaining that went on after the 2011, 2012 and 2014 seasons. The specifics are different but the basics are the same - Stan screwed up here and Q screwed up there, ad nauseam. The missing balance is (1) every GM and coach make mistakes, and (2) Stan and Q actually do some good stuff too - it's not only bad decision after bad decision.

I understand human nature is give me more, more, more and if the demands aren't met then the whining and complaining will commence, but it is tiresome when a fanbase who has more to be thankful for than any other fanbase in the league over the past 8 seasons continuously focuses on what didn't go right instead of how fortunate we've been.
- EbonyRaptor

I understand where you're coming from, Blackhawks fans certainly do have a lot to be thankful for right now and you're 100% right that as a fanbase we are definitely spoiled as a result. But as for the whining and complaining on here, I don't think all of it is intended as whining even if comes across that way.

Speaking for myself, I feel it's more a dissection of the season, the mistakes that were made, the needs that weren't met, and speculation on what the FO will do to address those things. There's just not much else to talk about until the offseason moves start being made. And while there were certainly good things about this past season (finding Panarin and him breaking out like he did, Kane and Crawford having MVP seasons) those are things that aren't really conducive to discussion. Everyone agrees, we aren't gonna sit here posting "OMG Panarin was amazing" back and forth.

So what is left to talk about is things that didn't go well, and different posters have different opinions on the who what where and why of the things that didn't work. I would think that once there's more actual news about the Blackhawks the focus on what happened this year (and voicing complaints about it) will switch a bit as we have more things to discuss (or so I hope).

I'm not entirely sold on Panik...good size....good speed....but so far he has the hands of Viktor Stahlberg. So another winger might be needed to play with the captain.




- tompo1015

Indeed, Panik has proven very little. If he could close with that big body, nice dangles and skating ability he'd be a much coveted, and expensive, power forward. A skilled big body that can close isn't easy to find.

Didn't realize he was a 2nd round pick. Played in all of Slovakia's international tournaments as a junior and has worn a c as well. looks like he scored 35 goals as a 17/18 yr old in the top Czech junior league and 22 in the AHL in 51 games. He's shown he can score: http://www.eliteprospects...m/player.php?player=11849

Lets hope he can stay out of Q's doghouse for starters and develop. Intriguing player with a hard to find set of skills/size combo.

Indeed, Panik has proven very little. If he could close with that big body, nice dangles and skating ability he'd be a much coveted, and expensive, power forward. A skilled big body that can close isn't easy to find.

Didn't realize he was a 2nd round pick. Played in all of Slovakia's international tournaments as a junior and has worn a c as well. looks like he scored 35 goals as a 17/18 yr old in the top Czech junior league and 22 in the AHL in 51 games. He's shown he can score: http://www.eliteprospects...m/player.php?player=11849

Lets hope he can stay out of Q's doghouse for starters and develop. Intriguing player with a hard to find set of skills/size combo.
- Mr Ricochet

Set the expectations for Panik properly and you will see this is a really good move. While I am a big fan of him, I also do not expect him to be next year's 1LW for example. Certainly not any time soon. At a deal at or around $1MM cap hit for 2-3 years, he is at worst a young and talented addition to the bottom six with the potential to elevate his game and role.

If my in system alternatives are the McNeills and Hartmans of the world on offense and Pokka/Sved on defense, guys like Panik and Kempny are upgrades at good contract value.

Set the expectations for Panik properly and you will see this is a really good move. While I am a big fan of him, I also do not expect him to be next year's 1LW for example. Certainly not any time soon. At a deal at or around $1MM cap hit for 2-3 years, he is at worst a young and talented addition to the bottom six with the potential to elevate his game and role.

If my in system alternatives are the McNeills and Hartmans of the world on offense and Pokka/Sved on defense, guys like Panik and Kempny are upgrades at good contract value.
- Return of the Roar

Totally agree on AAV and term. Pencil him in at 3L/4L. Any more is gravy. Set expectation lower and over-achieve.

Indeed, Panik has proven very little. If he could close with that big body, nice dangles and skating ability he'd be a much coveted, and expensive, power forward. A skilled big body that can close isn't easy to find.

Didn't realize he was a 2nd round pick. Played in all of Slovakia's international tournaments as a junior and has worn a c as well. looks like he scored 35 goals as a 17/18 yr old in the top Czech junior league and 22 in the AHL in 51 games. He's shown he can score: http://www.eliteprospects...m/player.php?player=11849

Lets hope he can stay out of Q's doghouse for starters and develop. Intriguing player with a hard to find set of skills/size combo.
- Mr Ricochet

It would be interesting to see a guy develop, but I'm going to have to start asking, who has Q developed?

It would be interesting to see a guy develop, but I'm going to have to start asking, who has Q developed?
- vabeachbear

Saad, Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Kruger..?

I've sworn off prognostications on TT. From effective shifty high IQ 20 yr old in 2015 playoffs, to complete lack of effort dog for the better part of this season, a position switch to C sees him very effective for 10 or so games back to disappearing for long stretches. .....A total enigma for me.

Drouin was never being moved for TT's or Gus's by Stevie Y. Despite his problems and with the probability that Stamkos would be lost to free agency Stevie Y wanted a #3 pick talent in return. He found no takers and as of today its worked out.... Lets see what the kid does when he becomes a FA when that time comes.
- Mr Ricochet

That was the rumor on this site, which is what I was referring to. That it was there for the Hawk's taking, and they chose to pass.

Perhaps you have inside sources, I certainly don't, but pretty sure JJ was the one that reported his sources telling him that was the price from the Bolts to Stan.

Saad, Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Kruger..?
- MjulQvist

How much credit does Q get for their development? If we go by that, then what's the list of guys that Q failed to develop?

Not bashing or praising him, but I'd think Q isn't the easiest guy to play for, and that a lot of the development falls on the player themselves, as well as the assistants. The way he rotates guys, if you quickly fall in his doghouse, it would seem tough to prove yourself outside of practice.

Saad, Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Kruger..?
- MjulQvist

Kane, Toews, Keith, Versteeg, Desjardins..the list goes on and on.

How much credit does Q get for their development? If we go by that, then what's the list of guys that Q failed to develop?

Not bashing or praising him, but I'd think Q isn't the easiest guy to play for, and that a lot of the development falls on the player themselves, as well as the assistants. The way he rotates guys, if you quickly fall in his doghouse, it would seem tough to prove yourself outside of practice.
- howiehandles

Tough to prove yourself in practice too since they don't do that very often


pdx2ord posted a video with Sharp a few pages back and what I found most striking was when he talked about how good Lindy Ruff is at instilling confidence in his players. That's just not Q's style, IMO, and we're seeing the effects on players like Gustafsson and TT. I think some players have an inner confidence and don't need Q helping them with that (Shaw and Saad are probably good examples of ones that came up through Rockford, Kane/Toews etc are examples of the players who were already like that from day one), and some players just need someone other than themselves to believe in them and show that they believe in them.

I think that how TT was when Timonen was around vs. this year shows that he's a player who needs those around him to help with his confidence. We can argue the merits of whether you even want a player who needs outside approval to feel confident in themselves on your team, but in TT's case I think his age factors into this as well. All season both he and Q talked about TT needing to find his confidence again, and I doubt that bouncing around the lineup as much he did and the failed experiment at LW helped that issue.

It seems that there are some coaches who are really good at nurturing young players and then there are coaches who are really good at getting what they need out of stars/already developed players. Q just happens to be the latter.

How much credit does Q get for their development? If we go by that, then what's the list of guys that Q failed to develop?

Not bashing or praising him, but I'd think Q isn't the easiest guy to play for, and that a lot of the development falls on the player themselves, as well as the assistants. The way he rotates guys, if you quickly fall in his doghouse, it would seem tough to prove yourself outside of practice.
- howiehandles

Would seem that way. Kane/Toews spoke about how Torchetti spent hours with them after practice helping them work on their offensive game. If you go to practices, you see Dineen and Kitchen and even Toews pulling certain players aside and going over specific skills 1:1 or 2:1. Would think the veterans would provide some coaching support to the younger guys (they definitely bench coach), but this year, with the limited practices and exhaustion, maybe it didn't happen as much as it would usually.

Bowman's in St. Petersburg. He spoke about Schmaltz's plans:

https://theathletic.com/2...er-nick-schmaltz-decides/

JJ - any chance that the hawks can trade Bickell to a cap floor team if they include a lower draft pick and prospect? I'm guessing it would have to be a guy decent enough to make someone bite. Have you heard if that's been discussed at all?

With the window of opportunity being what it is you have to think the 4M cap savings is worth losing the other assets for some breathing room. Outside of a buyout I don't see any other way they get rid of that cap hit this year.