If Daley wins the cup this year and the Norris the next those with a narrative he sucks BEFORE he ever stepped on the ice for the Hawks will still assert Daley is a bum. People see what they want.

As a #4 Dman at 3.3 per the guy is gold!!!
- Mr Ricochet

Kind of like Oduya?

I don't know, though... Daley's interviews were always about "I'm going to play my game," which is an incredibly selfish approach for what is a team game. He got to Pitt just as Sullivan came on board, and when you look at the D-corps there, he actually is the #2 in terms of experience and talent. So maybe Sullivan coached his players to be aware and adjust when Daley goes on an ill-advised "raid" deep into the OZ.

Daley got here and is a #4 in terms of talent and winning experience... maybe even a #5 when you think about Rozsival's 2 Cups and higher hockey IQ. Sounds like he couldn't handle being that, since no matter what, he was "going to play [his] game."

All these hindsight lamentations. We Hawks fans have become spoiled and greedy. We focus our passions on the things done wrong, in our opinion, rather than the good fortune we have had over the last 8 seasons. We hold our management team to a standard that is not achievable and cherry pick comparisons and perceived mistakes to evidence our dissatisfaction with the incompetent management team.

For those old enough to have been Hawks fans before the renaissance, I dare say all of us would have gladly mortgaged the future for a Stanley Cup win. Eight years later we have three Stanley Cup wins and a good part of the future was mortgaged along the way in the honest effort to win each year. I find it distasteful that we now complain about the price that was paid.

Stan has made mistakes and so has Q. But so has every other GM and head coach in the league. The salary cap changed the paradigm of building and maintaining a competitive NHL team and the Hawks have succeeded better than every other team in the league over that period. I think we should be thankful for that.

Wins over the past 8 seasons:

2008/09: 47+9=56 (lost in WCF)
2009/10: 52+16=68 (won Cup)
2010/11: 44+3=47 (lost in GM-7 OT)
2011/12: 45+2=47 (lost in GM-6)
2012/13: 36+16=52 (won Cup)
2013/14: 46+11=57 (lost GM-7 OT to Cup winner)
2014/15: 48+16=64 (won Cup)
2015/16: 47+3=50 (lost GM-7 by 1 goal)

That's 441 combined wins over the past 8 seasons, 76 of them in the playoffs. If someone can find a team that has given their fans more over that period - please enlighten us.

Kind of like Oduya?

I don't know, though... Daley's interviews were always about "I'm going to play my game," which is an incredibly selfish approach for what is a team game. He got to Pitt just as Sullivan came on board, and when you look at the D-corps there, he actually is the #2 in terms of experience and talent. So maybe Sullivan coached his players to be aware and adjust when Daley goes on an ill-advised "raid" deep into the OZ.

Daley got here and is a #4 in terms of talent and winning experience... maybe even a #5 when you think about Rozsival's 2 Cups and higher hockey IQ. Sounds like he couldn't handle being that, since no matter what, he was "going to play
- DMChi2010[his] game."

Indeed, like Oduya. Gold at 4D..... And yes he's skating #2 minutes in PITT (you go Sullivan coach em up) and IMO the deeper into the playoffs he goes skating #2 minutes he'll be exposed more and more, but it's a hard cap world and that's how it goes.

I have no problem with Q running Daley out of town, misusing him, not using him, not coaching him, coaching him as if this was pre free agent days when you did as you were told or back to the minors in a 6 team NHL world.

Now you have the lineup you want and that's Rundblad/Gus as a bottom pairing in Game 7. Make it work.

And as far as listening to pro athletes speak, stopped listening a couple decades ago for the most part (thank you DVR and fast forward). Incredible to watch them use their bodies to compete but listening to their thoughts on most anything is rarely enlightening. But if you say, and to paraphrase, Daley says he doing it his way- play HIS game, as a 12-13 yr vet with nothing to show for it on a 3 in 6 club well that thinking is the reason I don't listen to most of them speak. Hard to believe anyone can be that stupid.

All these hindsight lamentations. We Hawks fans have become spoiled and greedy. We focus our passions on the things done wrong, in our opinion, rather than the good fortune we have had over the last 8 seasons. We hold our management team to a standard that is not achievable and cherry pick comparisons and perceived mistakes to evidence our dissatisfaction with the incompetent management team.

For those old enough to have been Hawks fans before the renaissance, I dare say all of us would have gladly mortgaged the future for a Stanley Cup win. Eight years later we have three Stanley Cup wins and a good part of the future was mortgaged along the way in the honest effort to win each year. I find it distasteful that we now complain about the price that was paid.

Stan has made mistakes and so has Q. But so has every other GM and head coach in the league. The salary cap changed the paradigm of building and maintaining a competitive NHL team and the Hawks have succeeded better than every other team in the league over that period. I think we should be thankful for that.
- EbonyRaptor

Greedy enough to write a check for 9k to the Hawks every year. And like visiting a restaurant I'll pay for what I receive and have an opinion on what my dollar got me.

I'm fine with losing, in fact admire a spent loser who played hard to the bitter end probably more than the winner. What I'm not fine with is lack of effort or a coach and GM who mortgage the future for players not used. That is a total abomination in every respect. Yea coaches miss as do GM's but not in this regard with the consequences (to be determined) this harmful.

I understand you though Ebony most fans look for excuses and not reasons for losing and don't realize the other side are pros too. 3 in 7 is a beautiful thing but that doesn't mean that people aren't to be held accountable.

Wins over the past 8 seasons:

2008/09: 47+9=56 (lost in WCF)
2009/10: 52+16=68 (won Cup)
2010/11: 44+3=47 (lost in GM-7 OT)
2011/12: 45+2=47 (lost in GM-6)
2012/13: 36+16=52 (won Cup)
2013/14: 46+11=57 (lost GM-7 OT to Cup winner)
2014/15: 48+16=64 (won Cup)
2015/16: 47+3=50 (lost GM-7 by 1 goal)

That's 441 combined wins over the past 8 seasons, 76 of them in the playoffs. If someone can find a team that has given their fans more over that period - please enlighten us.
- EbonyRaptor

The window is still open for a few more years. There will be more wins and at least one more cup. This team can do it - best core and leadership in the league.

Greedy enough to write a check for 9k to the Hawks every year. And like visiting a restaurant I'll pay for what I receive and have an opinion on what my dollar got me.

I'm fine with losing, in fact admire a spent loser who played hard to the bitter end probably more than the winner. What I'm not fine with is lack of effort or a coach and GM who mortgage the future for players not used. That is a total abomination in every respect. Yea coaches miss as do GM's but not in this regard with the consequences (to be determined) this harmful.

I understand you though Ebony most fans look for excuses and not reasons for losing and don't realize the other side are pros too. 3 in 7 is a beautiful thing but that doesn't mean that people aren't to be held accountable.
- Mr Ricochet

Absolutely.

Also doesn't mean they shouldn't be given credit for the successes - and too often, here and other places, the credit is given to predecessors, or "he won because of the stars on the roster", or "anyone could have won with...."

Stan and Q made several/many moves this past season that seem inexplicable - that seem to be self-destructive - that maybe cost the franchise a lot of its immediate future. We'll never know the "why" of much of it - I'd like to think there was a "why" that we as outsiders (and I c rtainly have no inside sources) have no knowledge of.

This summer is a big on for Stan - next year is a big one for Q - we'll see what they can do.

But 3 in 7 - and 5 deep runs in 8 - in the hardest cap system in North American sports - can't say it's been accidental - can't say it's all been Tallon or Smith - can't hold out Yzerman or the TB situation as the ideal you compare Stan to - Yzerman hasn't faced what Stan has yet.

Absolutely.

Also doesn't mean they shouldn't be given credit for the successes - and too often, here and other places, the credit is given to predecessors, or "he won because of the stars on the roster", or "anyone could have won with...."

Stan and Q made several/many moves this past season that seem inexplicable - that seem to be self-destructive - that maybe cost the franchise a lot of its immediate future. We'll never know the "why" of much of it - I'd like to think there was a "why" that we as outsiders (and I c rtainly have no inside sources) have no knowledge of.

This summer is a big on for Stan - next year is a big one for Q - we'll see what they can do.

But 3 in 7 - and 5 deep runs in 8 - in the hardest cap system in North American sports - can't say it's been accidental - can't say it's all been Tallon or Smith - can't hold out Yzerman or the TB situation as the ideal you compare Stan to - Yzerman hasn't faced what Stan has yet.
- StLBravesFan

Well said on all counts, sir............ And as far as me injecting TB, or Pitt to a lesser extent, the Bolts have won a thing yet. The Hawks are the barometer until they haven't won one another for a few more years.

Even then Drouin had the same amount of talent/skill. Thing that has to be pointed out is that every other team in the league failed to acquire him. Maybe Stevie Y's asking price was too high and it seems that was the case, and maybe rightly so.
- Mr Ricochet

Even back then, for the rumored price of TT and Gus, I was all for that. TT is what he is. I can't see him being able to withstand the physical game, whereas Drouin isn't afraid of that part, even though he's not all that big either. I'm not saying JD is going to be a superstar, I just wouldn't be surprised to see TT bolt to SEL within 5 years, and Drouin being a minimum 50 pt guy. His compete level is what separates the two. After a certain point, his pulling up constantly to avoid taking the body, while getting knocked off the puck is going to become a real liability, and outside of his going to see the Wizard, I don't envision a huge change from him.

Even back then, for the rumored price of TT and Gus, I was all for that. TT is what he is. I can't see him being able to withstand the physical game, whereas Drouin isn't afraid of that part, even though he's not all that big either. I'm not saying JD is going to be a superstar, I just wouldn't be surprised to see TT bolt to SEL within 5 years, and Drouin being a minimum 50 pt guy. His compete level is what separates the two. After a certain point, his pulling up constantly to avoid taking the body, while getting knocked off the puck is going to become a real liability, and outside of his going to see the Wizard, I don't envision a huge change from him.
- howiehandles

This just in: the Wizard is having a 2 for 1 heart transplant special.

Stan, get in on this. Get your boyz Rundblad and TT over to him stat.

Hope Daley and the Pens win the Cup and he continues to play as well as he has so far

Q missed he boat on Daley and it's now there for everyone to see
- Colbyboy

Another spoiled Hawks fan.....

Even back then, for the rumored price of TT and Gus, I was all for that. TT is what he is. I can't see him being able to withstand the physical game, whereas Drouin isn't afraid of that part, even though he's not all that big either. I'm not saying JD is going to be a superstar, I just wouldn't be surprised to see TT bolt to SEL within 5 years, and Drouin being a minimum 50 pt guy. His compete level is what separates the two. After a certain point, his pulling up constantly to avoid taking the body, while getting knocked off the puck is going to become a real liability, and outside of his going to see the Wizard, I don't envision a huge change from him.
- howiehandles

Next trick for TT.........Tazers right wing, along with..........after........... Wish in 1hand, crap in the other...... That SB some how aquires JVR in a multi player deal with Toronto???????? ....... Then again....... We're talking Stan Bowman........Nah!

Patrick Sharp exit interview - interesting comments contrasting the style and coaching emphasis starting at about 1:54, and then team chemistry starting at about 5:10.

https://www.nhl.com/stars...rp/t-277437402/c-43953003
- pdx2ord

the part about Ruff instilling confidence in his players really stands out, especially considering players like Gustafson who clearly had confidence issues with Q, and TT who has been vocal about losing confidence and who Q always talks about "just needs to regain his confidence"

Greedy enough to write a check for 9k to the Hawks every year. And like visiting a restaurant I'll pay for what I receive and have an opinion on what my dollar got me.

I'm fine with losing, in fact admire a spent loser who played hard to the bitter end probably more than the winner. What I'm not fine with is lack of effort or a coach and GM who mortgage the future for players not used. That is a total abomination in every respect. Yea coaches miss as do GM's but not in this regard with the consequences (to be determined) this harmful.

I understand you though Ebony most fans look for excuses and not reasons for losing and don't realize the other side are pros too. 3 in 7 is a beautiful thing but that doesn't mean that people aren't to be held accountable.
- Mr Ricochet

Negative and positive comments are part of fandom, but there needs to be a balance, whether you're a STH paying a hefty cost or just another guy. The problem I have is there isn't a balance - it is predominantly whining and complaining and if it were fans of a team that hasn't won a Cup in forever, or ever, than I could understand the continuous negativity. But that isn't the situation for Hawks fans. We've been fortunate to win 3 Cups and be extremely competitive most of the other seasons.

The what have you done for me lately crowd whines on.

Some interesting stats about the playmaking abilities of the various forwards



(Whole article) https://blackhawksbreakdo...ity-of-chicagos-forwards/

And an article about Hossa's offensive decline and its effect on Toews:

http://thehockeywriters.c...ecline-affects-the-hawks/



Lastly, why Mashinter should never see NHL ice again:

http://blackhawkup.com/20...don-mashinter-did-things/

Hope Daley and the Pens win the Cup and he continues to play as well as he has so far

Q missed he boat on Daley and it's now there for everyone to see
- Colbyboy

If you dig a little deeper into Daley's playoff numbers they're not good, in fact they're bad.

All these hindsight lamentations. We Hawks fans have become spoiled and greedy. We focus our passions on the things done wrong, in our opinion, rather than the good fortune we have had over the last 8 seasons. We hold our management team to a standard that is not achievable and cherry pick comparisons and perceived mistakes to evidence our dissatisfaction with the incompetent management team.

For those old enough to have been Hawks fans before the renaissance, I dare say all of us would have gladly mortgaged the future for a Stanley Cup win. Eight years later we have three Stanley Cup wins and a good part of the future was mortgaged along the way in the honest effort to win each year. I find it distasteful that we now complain about the price that was paid.

Stan has made mistakes and so has Q. But so has every other GM and head coach in the league. The salary cap changed the paradigm of building and maintaining a competitive NHL team and the Hawks have succeeded better than every other team in the league over that period. I think we should be thankful for that.
- EbonyRaptor

Nice post.

Some interesting stats about the playmaking abilities of the various forwards



(Whole article) https://blackhawksbreakdo...ity-of-chicagos-forwards/

And an article about Hossa's offensive decline and its effect on Toews:

http://thehockeywriters.c...ecline-affects-the-hawks/



Lastly, why Mashinter should never see NHL ice again:

http://blackhawkup.com/20...don-mashinter-did-things/
- maria_wyeth

Cool stuff. Thought their article on playmaking abilities of the d-men was also interesting. This board's favorite whipping boys are at the top of the list with Keith. The author's question about whether pairing two without that passing ability, a la TVR and Seabrook, hampers the offensive lines was a good one.



Would love to see these comparisons with a broader, x-NHL population.

If you dig a little deeper into Daley's playoff numbers they're not good, in fact they're bad.
- walleyeb1

Why was Dallas willing to trade Daley? Did they feel Daley was now expendable with Oduya onboard, or was acquiring Sharp that important?

Some interesting stats about the playmaking abilities of the various forwards



(Whole article) https://blackhawksbreakdo...ity-of-chicagos-forwards/
- maria_wyeth

Interesting article, but man, stats are tough in the NHL to try to determine each player's contribution to the team. This study gives credit to playmaking by counting primary and secondary "Assists" leading to a shot.

So how is Anisimov so bad? Well, the eye would say that he gets the puck along the boards behind the goal, cycles it back to Kane or Panarin, who then dump it to the D-man on the point, who then probably pass it to another D-man for a shot or back to Kane or Panarin who then shoot from in close near the dots. That would give Anisimov the tertiary assist...

Yet half those shots taken from the point or from Kane or Panarin go in because after cycling the puck, Anisimov goes and screens the crap out of the goalie. Even with this metric, he still doesn't get credit for being quite good at digging pucks out along the boards.

JJ we need some fresh Hawkeybuzz or you're about to get pushed off the HB home page

Another spoiled Hawks fan.....
- SimpleJack[/qu

WTF does that mean...taking a break from a board that was at one time a fun and interesting place to interact with fellow Hawk fans

Not so any more

Hope Daley and the Pens win the Cup and he continues to play as well as he has so far

Q missed he boat on Daley and it's now there for everyone to see
- Colbyboy

I hope Tampa buries them in 4.

All these hindsight lamentations. We Hawks fans have become spoiled and greedy. We focus our passions on the things done wrong, in our opinion, rather than the good fortune we have had over the last 8 seasons. We hold our management team to a standard that is not achievable and cherry pick comparisons and perceived mistakes to evidence our dissatisfaction with the incompetent management team.

For those old enough to have been Hawks fans before the renaissance, I dare say all of us would have gladly mortgaged the future for a Stanley Cup win. Eight years later we have three Stanley Cup wins and a good part of the future was mortgaged along the way in the honest effort to win each year. I find it distasteful that we now complain about the price that was paid.

Stan has made mistakes and so has Q. But so has every other GM and head coach in the league. The salary cap changed the paradigm of building and maintaining a competitive NHL team and the Hawks have succeeded better than every other team in the league over that period. I think we should be thankful for that.
- EbonyRaptor

With ya on this-- I have the chance to talk with fans of various teams-- some who I play hockey with that are transplanted here for work etc-- every single one of them are envious of what the Hawks have accomplished with the 3 Cups in the cap era-- and very few if any think that the Hawks window is closed-- point is we have an amazing core team here-- one that many NHL experts consider a modern day dynasty and the gold standard for success in the cap era-- I've followed the Hawks since the late 60's-- seen some great teams- some under achieving teams and some really bad teams-- NONE like this current version-- and i am grateful for the 3 Cup wins-- lucky enough to have seen 2 cup winning games in Boston (13) and home (15) after witnessing 2 cup losses on home ice v MTL and PIT--

There are more championships to come from this Hawks core-- its going to take some shrewd management moves by Bowman and scouting efforts by the staff--

Only a fool would write them off now-- and it is OK to question everything-- thats what happens when you set the standard by which others are measured-- enjoy the ride and keep the faith!

Interesting article, but man, stats are tough in the NHL to try to determine each player's contribution to the team. This study gives credit to playmaking by counting primary and secondary "Assists" leading to a shot.

So how is Anisimov so bad? Well, the eye would say that he gets the puck along the boards behind the goal, cycles it back to Kane or Panarin, who then dump it to the D-man on the point, who then probably pass it to another D-man for a shot or back to Kane or Panarin who then shoot from in close near the dots. That would give Anisimov the tertiary assist...

Yet half those shots taken from the point or from Kane or Panarin go in because after cycling the puck, Anisimov goes and screens the crap out of the goalie. Even with this metric, he still doesn't get credit for being quite good at digging pucks out along the boards.
- DMChi2010

AA does his job more or less, but he just isn't a play maker. He doesn't get credit for everything his does, but he also has two wingers making him look good. I think it balances out.