I agree Murph. Not to mention, waiting on an extension allows Panarin to increase his $$ figure with another Top 10 or maybe Top 5 scoring year. If the Hawks re-sign him this summer, maybe you can get him in the $5-6mil range. Another 75point season and its $7mil+/year. If Stan hasn't learned his lesson from Saad, then maybe another General Manager should be running things. CANNOT continue to purge Top Line talent with minimal to no return.
- EnzoD

Enzo my brother, you and I are almost always on the same page

Who said I refused to see that the cap will require change? I think I flat out said it would. My point is that Stan doesn't have to go overboard in trades just to create cap space. 1) If $2 million is required then trade Shaw, not Crawford.

I think we've seen enough over the past several seasons to realize that very few guys are safe in the off season. 2) But Stan doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would panic. Has Stan contemplated various trade scenarios both big and small, of course he has, that's his job. 3) But considering a move and actually taking action are two different things.
- DarthKane

1) depends on the return. Completely.
2) Another way to look at it is Stan has shown himself to be more of a "maintainer" than a "builder" (like say a Dale Tallon or a Dean Lombardi). "Riverboat Gambler" is NOT Stan Bowman. THAT'S WHY he was put in the job and Tallon was fired. So no, he's not going to "panic". But he is also not a guy who is going to get super creative and go outside the box either. And I suspect the hawk FO is structured where that is exceedingly unlikely to happen. And there is a proven track record with Bowman/this FO of perhaps waiting too long for the perfect deal, especially when time is NOT on their side (Leddy, Sharp).

The results in the Saad deal, where Bowman and the FO ANTICIPATED that there might be trouble and ended up with multiple offers and able to choose the best one—driven by an acute awareness of a 7/1 drop dead? Worked out fairly well.

Now extrapolate that to this summer (Shaw) and next summer (Panarin, TT) and a more acute need to add a piece or 2 or 3. Seems that it would be insane to assume all is well and it'll all work out and not be seriously exploring a lot of avenues to cut salary AND still improve the team and keep Panarin at minimum. So I think we're in agreement there and that is what I have heard they've been doing for over a year now.

3) Agreed. And my apologies if I am interposing your points with a couple of others. I think we are in agreement that exploring all the options is absolutely necessary. Where maybe we disagree is on how limited the options are (?). Because I think the options pretty much have to be dealing one of those guys or some combination of those guys and losing Bickell's deal, and adding a piece or two that have some legit NHL experience.

A lot of signs, quietly and now not so quietly have been pointing to a bit of a shakeup this summer—because of the cap. Panarin, again, is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Getting him inked without further hamstringing the franchise is going to mean freeing up significant $. In addition to everything else that needs to get done.

The team mightn't be able to pull something off. But then I think you are going to see a repeat next year of this year on the ice. Shot totals that skew toward opponents, un Hawk-like GAA, poor 5-on-5 play—mostly because of a deficit at LW and on D.

A team that probably has the least blue chip prospect depth in the NHL and weak depth overall in its system really can't rely on the system this much. Tough deal. They need to figure out a way to get around it. And that will call for courage and creativity. Some might call it "panic." I don't view it that way.

I remember when Tallon acquired Marty Havlat, who at that time was JUST what the Hawks needed and was a really good player on the rise. A move that was ballsy and creative. Tallon won a lot of trades. FA signings? Meh, not as much. Drafting? Some big hits and huge misses. But he won a lot of trades because he wasn't gun-shy and was a pretty good scout at heart.

Plus, you have to think...if the kid has an 70+ point season again, his head is just going to get bigger and bigger and he's going to want even more $. I say the sooner we lock him up for 4+ years, the better!
- Murph76

Who is to say it is not already that big?

It is to his advantage to wait anyway. Same for Darling. Hawks at least have arbitration as leverage with him being an RFA.

Enzo my brother, you and I are almost always on the same page

- Murph76

Saad is by FAR the superior player to both Anisimov and Dano combined. Dano looks like a 3RW to me. Saad is a 30 goal/year 1LW and Anisimov is a solid 2/3C. Would rather have Saad and so would StanBo. You are right, Stan did OK in that deal, but a similar scenario with Panarin is still a net loss for the club. Remember when dirt cheap Brad Richards and Handzus were competent 2C's for Super-Scorer Patrick Kane? Those top 6 forward groups (with Stud LW Saad next to Toews-Hossa) were far more balanced than last years' club with a solid 2C but no 1LW.
- EnzoD

Wont argue that, but Saad's agent pulled some schit and Stan had little choice. Nobody thought Saad was gonna come back at 6 million/year. In the end, Stan filled the #2 C spot. That was a gun to head trade by Stan. Panik might be a diamond in the rough and the Hawks need to get him signed. That guy was a force against the Blues and he just needs time to develop. And Panik looked more then comfortable on the top line with 19.

In regards to Panarin, who knows what he wants. If he too comes back with way huge demands what can you do? Yes try to work a new deal ASAP, but 72 has to agree to it.

Find a way to move Bickell's contract with taking minimal to no salary on return.

I'm a believer that everyone can be traded in the return is right and there is a viable candidate to replace them. Moving a big contract could be one way to address the team's needs, but it's not the only way. Maybe Teravainen is moved to bring back help on defense. Maybe Panarin is moved. What we've seen from Stan in the past is that he doesn't move his core players unless he has too. Depending on where the final salary cap ceiling lands I don't think Stan has to move a core player this season.

Also, when we discuss the possibility o moving guys like Crawford or Seabrook we're assuming there's another GM out there that will give Stan a return that would make us happy and address the teams needs. If you can see that the Hawks are in a pinch and need to move salary what makes you think the other 29 GMs don't see the same thing. If that is the case the return for Seabrook and Crawford will be more in line with the return Stan got for Sharp.
- DarthKane

Well, it's possible. But they've been trying to do that for 2 years with no luck. So I will grant packaging him is possible, but they will HAVE to package a more desirable asset to do it.

Or you buy him out and take your lumps on the buyout and still get some cap relief.

NO ONE is going to take on even one year of Bickell's deal for a bag of pucks. Because EVERYONE knows the position the Hawks are in. Not happening. Bickell is an AHL player making $4 million this season.

Find a way to move Bickell's contract with taking minimal to no salary on return.

I'm a believer that everyone can be traded in the return is right and there is a viable candidate to replace them. Moving a big contract could be one way to address the team's needs, but it's not the only way. Maybe Teravainen is moved to bring back help on defense. Maybe Panarin is moved. What we've seen from Stan in the past is that he doesn't move his core players unless he has too. Depending on where the final salary cap ceiling lands I don't think Stan has to move a core player this season.

Also, when we discuss the possibility o moving guys like Crawford or Seabrook we're assuming there's another GM out there that will give Stan a return that would make us happy and address the teams needs. If you can see that the Hawks are in a pinch and need to move salary what makes you think the other 29 GMs don't see the same thing. If that is the case the return for Seabrook and Crawford will be more in line with the return Stan got for Sharp.
- DarthKane

If you move Crawford it is not going to be a case where you get a value for value return. You might get something that helps fill a hole (a useful top 9 winger, a defenseman) but you can't take a lot of salary back in the deal and you might have to take someone's lesser paid goalie back. It's about cap room this year and next year. Which is why dealing for a Mason whose deal expires next summer, net savings up to $6 million (Panarin?), and saves you $2 million this year MIGHT make some sense.

There IS a tradeoff. And I don't think they deal CC unless they believe that a combination of Darling and a veteran obtained in a CC deal or elsewhere (like maybe Johansson who is 27 and has a lot of pro experience overseas—think Niemi in 2010) can carry the load.

I don't think they are exploring dealing Seabrook either.

Plays with that demeanor, but I know he has some nasty in him deep down... saw him drop the gloves tp stand up for a teammate at the Prospects Tourney a few years ago. I was impressed he had that in him.
- TyCamScore

Who? Kempny?

The amazing thing about these boards is the absolute certainty that some player is dog poop and will always be dog poop. Or that a player has no chance of ever improving.

Let's give some examples: Svedberg, Gus...had rough first years, but so do a lot of players. If we were the Oilers, then perhaps we can live through the growing pains, but we aren't. We want to repeat, they weren't the d-men for that THIS YEAR. But that in no way means they haven't learned and will come back bigger and stronger and smarter next year. They may not, but there's as good of a chance that they may.

Secondly, every year, some player comes up from the AHL or NCAA and plays well enough to stick. Someone no one expected. We have one on our team. His name is Andrew Shaw. He wasn't some highly touted prospect coming out of juniors. He wasn't a huge scorer. But look at him now.

All I'm saying is enough with the absolutism on young players.
- CanOCorn

Great points.

But what is the one position that takes the most time to develop players? Defense.

What is the one position where the Hawks have the greatest need? Defense.

What makes developing defensemen even harder? Adapting from a larger ice sheet and a totally different style of play in Europe to NA.

This is why it is probably not a good idea to count on Gustrafsson, Svedberg, Forsling, Dahlstrom or Norell this year when you need an answer NOW. The Cup window will not be as open two years from now.

The amazing thing about these boards is the absolute certainty that some player is dog poop and will always be dog poop. Or that a player has no chance of ever improving.

Let's give some examples: Svedberg, Gus...had rough first years, but so do a lot of players. If we were the Oilers, then perhaps we can live through the growing pains, but we aren't. We want to repeat, they weren't the d-men for that THIS YEAR. But that in no way means they haven't learned and will come back bigger and stronger and smarter next year. They may not, but there's as good of a chance that they may.

Secondly, every year, some player comes up from the AHL or NCAA and plays well enough to stick. Someone no one expected. We have one on our team. His name is Andrew Shaw. He wasn't some highly touted prospect coming out of juniors. He wasn't a huge scorer. But look at him now.

All I'm saying is enough with the absolutism on young players.
- CanOCorn

Completely agree Corn...well, except for perhaps Runblad....

Who is to say it is not already that big?
- Return of the Roar

It is to his advantage to wait anyway. Same for Darling. Hawks at least have arbitration as leverage with him being an RFA.

Valid point

Saad is by FAR the superior player to both Anisimov and Dano combined. Dano looks like a 3RW to me. Saad is a 30 goal/year 1LW and Anisimov is a solid 2/3C. Would rather have Saad and so would StanBo. You are right, Stan did OK in that deal, but a similar scenario with Panarin is still a net loss for the club. Remember when dirt cheap Brad Richards and Handzus were competent 2C's for Super-Scorer Patrick Kane? Those top 6 forward groups (with Stud LW Saad next to Toews-Hossa) were far more balanced than last years' club with a solid 2C but no 1LW.
- EnzoD

This x 1000!

I think they need to do:

Fast dude -- Toews -- Kane
Panarin - Anisimov - decent dude
Desjardins - Kruger - Hossa

Hopefully the fast dude is Panik and maybe the decent dude is Teuvo if they decide the above 3rd line is a great shutdown line with some legitimate offensive upside.

Wont argue that, but Saad's agent pulled some schit and Stan had little choice. Nobody thought Saad was gonna come back at 6 million/year. In the end, Stan filled the #2 C spot. That was a gun to head trade by Stan. Panik might be a diamond in the rough and the Hawks need to get him signed. That guy was a force against the Blues and he just needs time to develop. And Panik looked more then comfortable on the top line with 19.

In regards to Panarin, who knows what he wants. If he too comes back with way huge demands what can you do? Yes try to work a new deal ASAP, but 72 has to agree to it.
- z1990z

What if the plan is to keep Shaw and Crawford and deal Panarin for a lesser LW and a true #4 D.

Lesser LW - Toews - Hossa
Someone Kane can make look good - Anisimov - Kane

Maybe that's a more balanced scoring threat from 2 lines?

Scratch one option:

Dale Weise in a radio interview on TSN690 yesterday afternoon expressed his interest to return to the Canadiens when he becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1st.

Scratch one option:

Dale Weise in a radio interview on TSN690 yesterday afternoon expressed his interest to return to the Canadiens when he becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1st.
- Return of the Roar

Did you really think he would willingly put himself back in Q's doghouse?

Did you really think he would willingly put himself back in Q's doghouse?
- EnzoD

Daley 2.0 if you ask me, so no.

If Stan waits until next summer to try and re-sign Panarin, Panarin will receive an offer sheet that we can't match and will be gone. Stan either locks him up long term this summer, or that's it for Panarin as a Hawk. The kid already said he wants he wants to get paid.
- Murph76

And if you lock him up at 4mil long term what happens when he starts pouting?

Scratch one option:

Dale Weise in a radio interview on TSN690 yesterday afternoon expressed his interest to return to the Canadiens when he becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1st.
- Return of the Roar

I'm profoundly saddened by this, said no Hawks fans ever. Either he was put on an extremely short leash by Q, or he did 0 of the things I thought he was brought here to do in the first place (ie. provide some sorely lacking grit to this baby poop soft team).

Scratch one option:

Dale Weise in a radio interview on TSN690 yesterday afternoon expressed his interest to return to the Canadiens when he becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1st.
- Return of the Roar

And Weise was Stan's primary trade target when talking with Montreal. So Danault is gone with most likely nothing to show for it. 👍🏻

And if you lock him up at 4mil long term what happens when he starts pouting?
- 6628

Get him a tissue and say suck it up youngster

Saad is by FAR the superior player to both Anisimov and Dano combined. Dano looks like a 3RW to me. Saad is a 30 goal/year 1LW and Anisimov is a solid 2/3C. Would rather have Saad and so would StanBo. You are right, Stan did OK in that deal, but a similar scenario with Panarin is still a net loss for the club. Remember when dirt cheap Brad Richards and Handzus were competent 2C's for Super-Scorer Patrick Kane? Those top 6 forward groups (with Stud LW Saad next to Toews-Hossa) were far more balanced than last years' club with a solid 2C but no 1LW.
- EnzoD

You are sooooo wrong about Saad and Anisimov. Without A neither bread man or Kane get the numbers they scored this year. Saad helped only himself

What if the plan is to keep Shaw and Crawford and deal Panarin for a lesser LW and a true #4 D.

Lesser LW - Toews - Hossa
Someone Kane can make look good - Anisimov - Kane

Maybe that's a more balanced scoring threat from 2 lines?
- DMChi2010

72 is an electric scorer who isn't afraid to attack the puck on the wall. Don't know how you don't try everything to keep him.

I'm profoundly saddened by this, said no Hawks fans ever. Either he was put on an extremely short leash by Q, or he did 0 of the things I thought he was brought here to do in the first place (ie. provide some sorely lacking grit to this baby poop soft team).
- Murph76

Hard to do the latter if the former is the case. Inclined to strongly believe it was the former.

How does a guy with a career of showing up when it counts suddenly become ineffective?

Now the issue of feeling "welcome in the room" raised by Toews in his post playoff presser seems to have more validity. What a shame if after bringing in Weise, Flash, Ladd and Panik that only one guy (Panik) may even want to stay.

Saad is by FAR the superior player to both Anisimov and Dano combined. Dano looks like a 3RW to me. Saad is a 30 goal/year 1LW and Anisimov is a solid 2/3C. Would rather have Saad and so would StanBo. You are right, Stan did OK in that deal, but a similar scenario with Panarin is still a net loss for the club. Remember when dirt cheap Brad Richards and Handzus were competent 2C's for Super-Scorer Patrick Kane? Those top 6 forward groups (with Stud LW Saad next to Toews-Hossa) were far more balanced than last years' club with a solid 2C but no 1LW.
- EnzoD

Again you are soooo wrong

You are sooooo wrong about Saad and Anisimov. Without A neither bread man or Kane get the numbers they scored this year. Saad helped only himself
- Maggie

Maybe the Hawks were better off with 2 scoring lines instead of one? The results speak for themselves and I'm pretty sure everyone, including Patrick Kane, would trade in that Art Ross for another Stanley Cup. Saad > Anisimov and there is a reason that even with Stan backed up against the wall, that Jarmo acted quickly to pick up this rising star. Anisimov is a really solid C that complemented 88+72 perfectly. That being said, Toews+Hossa had the worst seasons of their careers bc of the revolving door of bottom 6 LWs. Also, Hawks bowed out in the first round for the first time since......Brandon Saad was drafted.