While there's no doubt JVR has been a better regular season player than Shaw, Shaw has been better in the post season.

I'd be curious of who/what you expect for a winger (not the same value as a center) that avg's 50pts per season (.62ppg)?
- PatShart

As a baseline, something better than what oshie brought back for st. louis.

Something like jvr and a 2nd or d-prospect for Shattenkirk would be a trade I would make before trading jvr for a goalie.

C'mon already! One of the thing's that's hurt badly is Panarin earning the B bonus of $1.75m. Anyone predicting before the start of 2015/16 season that he would end up top 10 in scoring in his rookie year, raise your hand. Yeah, didnt think so.

Sure, the Hawks (some combination of true assessment and wishful thinking) thought he would be good, maybe really good. But unlikely they put a high probability on him earning that $1.75m this year (and a threat to earn it again next year). And unlikely they viewed him as so good that his next contract was $5-7m, versus a typical RFA bridge contract of, say, $2.0-3.5m.
- Cmonalready

No I can not, because it is serious (Bronson Pinchot, Beverly Hills Cop)


I heard last summer the Hawks knew he would be a force.

They scouted him, they saw the shot, the crazy puck skill, the skating, the work ethic. Really, they would have been kinda stupid not to see it. Right? Right.

But everyone wants to trade two guys who signed new deals in the last 12 months today. So whatever works . . .

As a baseline, something better than what oshie brought back for st. louis.

Something like jvr and a 2nd or d-prospect for Shattenkirk would be a trade I would make before trading jvr for a goalie.
- Tumbleweed

Now I think that one - you would be getting fleeced. Trade your best chip and a pick/prospect for a def that will be a UFA vs getting a forward than can play anywhere in your top 9 (including in front of the net where JVR does) AND a bona fide top 5-10 goalie in the league that has won 2 championships?

Fair enough. Trade offer rescinded

Some sense? It makes no sense for the Flyers. It may for the Blackhawks if they're trying to lower their cap hit, but that's about it.

I have no idea what Mason and Neuvirth did before they got to Philly, but I'll accept that neither has ever won a series. But now you accept that it wouldn't have mattered who the Flyers had in net this last series because when you get shut out twice and score 1 goal twice...odds are you're going to lose. Which, using logic, should mean that it makes more sense to upgrade somewhere else.

Crawford won 2 cups. He's good. But they didn't win those cups because of him. And they also won 1 with Nieme (?). They won 2 out of the 3 with low dollars allocated to goalie. Who are the highest paid goaltenders in the league? Have any of them won a cup while at that high salary? Your whole article just assumes that other teams want the Blackhawks pieces that they can't afford anymore. High priced goalies are not worth it anymore. Not just Crawford...anybody. I'd rather have an elite defense with an average goalie than the other way around. And he's not even elite.

And I just went over to more of my sources that are in the offices. They also agreed. Tomorrow I'll check the the cafeteria guy, but him and I are usually on the same page.
- wolphnuts12

OK, this sort of undermines your whole argument.

Crawford was huge in both 2013 and especially 2015 when a lot of people thought he deserved the Smythe. I haven't always been a huge Crawford fan, til the last two years when he stepped up to truly elite status. One illustration, I heard last year (from an NHL scout) that some in the Devils front office thought Crawford was better than Schneider, their guy, who is a very good goalie.

Today you have said Steve Mason is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, and now the above.

I find your sources jokes amusing. But stupid, because it seems you have your head buried in some other things too much to know what goes on in this blog and on the Hawks. My skin has gotten a little thicker doing this than to worry about the opinions of some guys working in an office in Norristown, who confuse the Flyers Goalie du Jour with Ken Dryden.

BTW, I have seen Steve Mason do his human sieve imitation about 20-30 times in person.

I'll be here all night.

Some sense? It makes no sense for the Flyers. It may for the Blackhawks if they're trying to lower their cap hit, but that's about it.

I have no idea what Mason and Neuvirth did before they got to Philly, but I'll accept that neither has ever won a series. But now you accept that it wouldn't have mattered who the Flyers had in net this last series because when you get shut out twice and score 1 goal twice...odds are you're going to lose. Which, using logic, should mean that it makes more sense to upgrade somewhere else.

Crawford won 2 cups. He's good. But they didn't win those cups because of him. And they also won 1 with Nieme (?). They won 2 out of the 3 with low dollars allocated to goalie. Who are the highest paid goaltenders in the league? Have any of them won a cup while at that high salary? Your whole article just assumes that other teams want the Blackhawks pieces that they can't afford anymore. High priced goalies are not worth it anymore. Not just Crawford...anybody. I'd rather have an elite defense with an average goalie than the other way around. And he's not even elite.

And I just went over to more of my sources that are in the offices. They also agreed. Tomorrow I'll check the the cafeteria guy, but him and I are usually on the same page.
- wolphnuts12

His blog is saying that the Hawks are shopping said pieces, no where does it state that there are teams lining up begging for said pieces.

Another goalie that could hit the market could be one of the Ducks two? Either would bring a ton of interest.
- kwolf68

Andersen would be the guy, i don't think they part with Gibson.

If the market is Crawford, Andersen or Howard, Crawford heads the market.

His blog is saying that the Hawks are shopping said pieces, no where does it state that there are teams lining up begging for said pieces.

- Hossa1881

No worries Hoss, this guy can't (or just won't) read. I dealt with this a lot 6 years ago. These guys always think you're "disrespecting" the Flyers somehow.

Yep, Corey Crawford playing for the Flyers—a good and improving club—WHAT?!

They couldn't POSSIBLY use a goalie like that. Not even worth discussing!! They have Steve Mason and Michal Neuvirth. Start the parade.

The reason we are talking about trading krug and Seabs is for a team up against the cap that has traded away so much why would they over pay that much on contracts without a plan. If they planned on keeping both of them why would you overpay them by about 20% each. at 2.5 and 5.65 everybody would agree with you. Krug is the highest paid 4th line center in the league that was signed as a 4th line center and Seabs is the highest paid 3rd best D man on any team that was signed as that. So the reason its brought up is it makes no sense. But then again 1/2 of all moves that they have made make no sense. So I probably agree with you and accept that we are going to become a AVG team outside of allot of luck.

Now I think that one - you would be getting fleeced. Trade your best chip and a pick/prospect for a def that will be a UFA vs getting a forward than can play anywhere in your top 9 (including in front of the net where JVR does) AND a bona fide top 5-10 goalie in the league that has won 2 championships?

Fair enough. Trade offer rescinded
- PatShart

I see the market for dmen as a sellers market. I see the market for goalies as a buyers market.

Generally, dmen carry more weight in trades than forwards. JVR only has one more year than Shattenkirk on his deal.

The leafs have a glut of picks/prospects. They need to trade out from that position more than they need to move jvr into a buyers market for goalies.

All good. I imagine a we’ll see a couple goalies moved at the draft. We’ll see how wrong we both were for value.

Andersen would be the guy, i don't think they part with Gibson.

If the market is Crawford, Andersen or Howard, Crawford heads the market.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed on Gibson. Seems crazy to move him over Andersen.

I don’t know how det moves howard. I hope the leafs stay far away from him.

I’m guessing maf could also be on the market.

can someone explain to me about how signing bonus work when they get traded, and when they are paid? 7/1 or 1st game? Krug has a 1.45SB and 2mils, then 2 mil SB and 1.45 Sal then 2.3 Sal. So Assuming signing bonus are paid on july 1. what it we traded Krugs on July 2nd 2017? He would be owed 3.75 mil at that point for 2 seasons. How would that all work out? I think its a loophole. IE he would have a ton of value to a team that is a budget team. 3.1 cap hit for 2 years but only 1.85 of Sal? Maybe they set the contract up to move him next summer after the signing bonus. I have never heard a team having to retain AAV because of a signing bonus?

OK, this sort of undermines your whole argument.

Crawford was huge in both 2013 and especially 2015 when a lot of people thought he deserved the Smythe. I haven't always been a huge Crawford fan, til the last two years when he stepped up to truly elite status. One illustration, I heard last year (from an NHL scout) that some in the Devils front office thought Crawford was better than Schneider, their guy, who is a very good goalie.

Today you have said Steve Mason is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, and now the above.

I find your sources jokes amusing. But stupid, because it seems you have your head buried in some other things too much to know what goes on in this blog and on the Hawks. My skin has gotten a little thicker doing this than to worry about the opinions of some guys working in an office in Norristown, who confuse the Flyers Goalie du Jour with Ken Dryden.

BTW, I have seen Steve Mason do his human sieve imitation about 20-30 times in person.

I'll be here all night.


- John Jaeckel

If Steve Mason is in the top 5 and Crawford is not elite who the hell does he consider to be elite?!

Despite the allegedly Vezina-quality season J. Quick had (still a head scratcher of a finalist IMO) I would take Crawford over him every time. As for the other finalists, Holtby had a monster regular season and then looked totally human in the playoffs. Bishop has done great but has a fantastic blueline in front of him, which Crawford certainly did not this year.

St Louis crashing the net, up 1-0.

How Dallas does not tie it up. Blues getting all the breaks this year. Expect them to play for the Cup

can someone explain to me about how signing bonus work when they get traded, and when they are paid? 7/1 or 1st game? Krug has a 1.45SB and 2mils, then 2 mil SB and 1.45 Sal then 2.3 Sal. So Assuming signing bonus are paid on july 1. what it we traded Krugs on July 2nd 2017? He would be owed 3.75 mil at that point for 2 seasons. How would that all work out? I think its a loophole. IE he would have a ton of value to a team that is a budget team. 3.1 cap hit for 2 years but only 1.85 of Sal? Maybe they set the contract up to move him next summer after the signing bonus. I have never heard a team having to retain AAV because of a signing bonus?
- kmw4631

Yeah – SB’s are paid july 1.

So a contract like krug’s can be attractive to a budget team.

Downside – Makes contracts onerous to buyout. on a buyout, SB’s are 100% owing to the player as opposed to 2/3 (or 1/3) for salary.

I just don’t know why you move krug after just signing him.

Craw was great until he got hurt. He stays healthy and stays on .93 and 2.2 and he is finalist, Hotby and Bishop were both more deserving. after that its a coin flip. About 5 guys but I would put quick at the bottom of those 5.

Stars on faceoffs during the PP

Yeah – SB’s are paid july 1.

So a contract like krug’s can be attractive to a budget team.

Downside – Makes contracts onerous to buyout. on a buyout, SB’s are 100% owing to the player as opposed to 2/3 (or 1/3) for salary.

I just don’t know why you move krug after just signing him.
- Tumbleweed

They wouldn't. 1/2 the teams are budget teams so getting krug for 2 years and 3.75 in his prime would make him very valuable. Compared to a guy making 8 mil in his last 2 years with the same cap hit. He would be moved next summer to make room for panarin.

St Louis crashing the net, up 1-0.

How Dallas does not tie it up. Blues getting all the breaks this year. Expect them to play for the Cup
- kwolf68

Wolf...did you not see game 6, or look at the box score? Blues dominated but lost at home. No breaks entire game.

Steve Ott deserves the Raffi Torres karma treatment. Franking worthless piece of poop. Elbow to the head of Hemsky. Frank the Blues and any team that employs head hunters like that scumbag.

Is Johns playing tonight? Haven't seen him much at all.

Al &JJ, both of you guys have a pulse on this stuff, What do YOU see playing out in a nut shell come 4th of July?
- wonthecup10

No whispers involved yet for me...But it comes down to if Shaw resigns-Then the most feasible trade options are TT/Kruger and AA. That's the way I see it....
After that more drastic measures and a lot more risk.

If the Hawks keep TT and Kruger, then I think they have to strongly consider dealing AA.

But of the 4 I mentioned at least 2 will be elsewhere is my view.

I don't want to trade Crawford, even though he gives you the most cap space. But look at Kari Lehtonen and be glad he isn't our goalie. Gave up two stupid-soft goals (and one was called back).

I think it may be the Blues' year...

Wolf...did you not see game 6, or look at the box score? Blues dominated but lost at home. No breaks entire game.
- ArlingtonRob

No didn't see that game.


It's all a moot point, Blues are blowing out Dallas...3-0 now late first wow.

Very nice...

Blues 3-0 after one.

I like it...

No didn't see that game.


It's all a moot point, Blues are blowing out Dallas...3-0 now late first wow.
- kwolf68

The Blues have gotten their share of breaks this post season...but they've also played well.

Tonight looks like a mirror image of game 6 in MO...road club up 3 after one.