IMO in terms of today's cap, both players are at least slightly overpaid and Patrick has to look at himself over the round one loss as well.
- John Jaeckel

One must admit, despite that OT winner in game 5, in games 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7 Kane missed on AT LEAST 4-5 GRADE A prime scoring chances that he usually puts in with ease. Many of which could/would have changed the outcome of the series.

I still don't think he's overpaid though and I wouldn't trade him in a million years.

How hard is it for people to understand that #16 (assuming he takes his number back) is a specialized player and his role is NOT to score goals or assist in scoring goals AND that the current Hawks management has decided that him in that specialized role is worth the contract that they gave him.

They would not have gone down that path without the realization that it MAY cost them another player (Shaw perhaps) who they feel can be replaced easier than #16.

I get the concept of the salary cap era and dollars being allocated. But IMHO, it's harder to replace lock down C's (one's where you have confidence to throw out on the ice when you are up in a 2-1 Game 6 in your end) versus a very good bottom 6 forward who excels in getting to the net on the PP.

If I'm Q, I sleep better at night with #16 on the roster over #65.
- DMCsPulledHammy

Well the problem, is....this team struggled scoring goals 5 on 5/in regulation this year. Especially outside of Kane's line. So if Kruger/his line job "isn't to score goals"...then Toews is incapable because he doesn't have Saad/Sharp anymore (and news flash, they aren't coming back nor is any other high priced winger)....where will they improve their goal scoring up front?

Well the problem, is....this team struggled scoring goals 5 on 5/in regulation this year. Especially outside of Kane's line. So if Kruger/his line job "isn't to score goals"...then Toews is incapable because he doesn't have Saad/Sharp anymore (and news flash, they aren't coming back nor is any other high priced winger)....where will they improve their goal scoring up front?
- PatShart

- EnzoD

That place looks fun!

Well the problem, is....this team struggled scoring goals 5 on 5/in regulation this year. Especially outside of Kane's line. So if Kruger/his line job "isn't to score goals"...then Toews is incapable because he doesn't have Saad/Sharp anymore (and news flash, they aren't coming back nor is any other high priced winger)....where will they improve their goal scoring up front?
- PatShart

Bingo. Kruger is now your highest paid forward outside the Top 6 besides maybe Shaw if he is back ( not counting Bickell). He has to score 30-40 pts. Otherwise you are counting on players on contracts of 1 mil or less taking care of all your depth scoring. Stagnant cap and losing talent means you need all your horses to step it up a notch.

John,

I take the issue of addiction very seriously, and it was not my intention to be flippant or dismissive of it. Personally knowing some former NHL'ers, I can attest to your numbers and impacts being accurate.

I also give the FO guys enough credit not to hang a mega contract on someone with a substance abuse problem.

It is just upsetting to me to see the comments surrounding CC get to the point where heresay accusations about going on a bender become part of the narrative to somehow discredit someone's character, while most of us prefer to deal in the facts. It cheapens the dialogue among an otherwise highly knowledgable and passionate group of fans.
- Return of the Roar

Where were people talking about him going on a bender? I haven't seen comments to that effect anywhere but here

Two questions. When is the salary cap for next year going to be announced and what where/are the injuries for all the players(proven and rumored)?

Or monkeys could fly out of my butt, because that has about as much chance of happening as Kruger getting traded right now.

So let's be logical here.

1) You feel Kruger is not worth $3 million a year. Why would any of 29 NHL GMs, assuming you're right, not share your opinion? That's one issue.

2) Rarely, if ever, is a guy just signed to a multi-year deal, traded right before the deal kicks in. Has it EVER happened?

3) Third line shutdown C. Who assumes that role if Kruger is dealt?

4) Let's say Stanley disregards all of the above, there IS a market for player you feel is overpaid, and he deals him. How does $3 million or less in cap relief solve Shaw's new deal, and TT and Panarin the following summer, TVR too I believe? It doesn't come close.
- John Jaeckel

I personally hope the other 29 gms do think he's worth 3 Million and if they do
I would trade him

Hawks need to get bigger and faster and Kruger is another smallish forward as is TT and it's why I see them both being moved this summer

Two questions. When is the salary cap for next year going to be announced and what where/are the injuries for all the players(proven and rumored)?
- jv526

Last year the league announced the cap on June 23. I would imagine that it would be around the same time this year.

I personally hope the other 29 gms do think he's worth 3 Million and if they do
I would trade him

Hawks need to get bigger and faster and Kruger is another smallish forward as is TT and it's why I see them both being moved this summer
- Colbyboy

There is a difference between being small and playing small. Kruger does not play small. He is strong along the walls and wins a lot of one on one battles by sheer force of will. It's not something you can teach. It just either exists in the man or it doesn't. I wouldn't even be thinking about trading Marcus Kruger. That literally just creates a problem. It solves nothing.

One must admit, despite that OT winner in game 5, in games 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7 Kane missed on AT LEAST 4-5 GRADE A prime scoring chances that he usually puts in with ease. Many of which could/would have changed the outcome of the series.

I still don't think he's overpaid though and I wouldn't trade him in a million years.
- SimpleJack

Kane knows that too. After the game he talked about how he blames himself for their exit and that if he had been able to score they would still be playing.

This is interesting. Take a look at Toews' numbers this past year. Goals? Pretty much typical. +/-, meh ok.

Assists? WAY DOWN. Why?

Could be a couple of things.

Hossa declining or just having a really off year (in addition to a little decline).

No Saad (and Shaw/Panik/Dano/TT/Sekac on the left wing instead). Which in turn might have suppressed Hossa's numbers a bit.

Richard Panik was a nice find by Stanley, but I think we're getting out over our skis a bit to assume he can play 1LW and help solve the above problem. To me he looks like a nice energy/third line LW who can get maybe 30-35 points in a full season and be a plus player, maybe even get 150-200 meaningful hits.

LW on Toews line is a vacancy at present. Ladd was starting to click there, but it is doubtful he is back next year—not impossible, but doubtful.
- John Jaeckel

I'm moving on from Shaw....

The depth on this team come training camp is what I'm most concerned about and I hope Q isn't against loading up Toews with Kane and Panarin. Like Anaheim used to do, otherwise you will not be getting any sort of return out of 19...put 81 with 15 and whoever and go from there.

See how it all shakes up but I will contend you really have 4 legit top 6 guys now on this team, and 81 will be the best bottom 9 player in hockey. He can't just can't be counted on to finish like he used to, and Panik needs a larger samples size.

Bingo. Kruger is now your highest paid forward outside the Top 6 besides maybe Shaw if he is back ( not counting Bickell). He has to score 30-40 pts. Otherwise you are counting on players on contracts of 1 mil or less taking care of all your depth scoring. Stagnant cap and losing talent means you need all your horses to step it up a notch.
- bhawks2241

Agree. 2 of your four lines "excuses" can't be - well, they're "shut down"centers and their role isn't to score. That puts an awful lot of pressure on the other two lines, but will explain why so many had ridiculous unfair expectations of TT, while giving the other 2 centers the shut down moniker free pass.

If they traded TT tomorrow, wouldn't bother me one bit. However, he went from 9pts in 34gms (.26ppg) as a 20yr old to 35pts in 78gms (.45ppg) in his first full season, maybe he can continue to progress and be a consistent 50pt player. At 21yrs old (he'll be 22 at the start of next season), its not far fetched to think he can and will improve his game.

And again, if they move him, I won't shed a tear. But that's another 35pt hole at less than a million they created

And for all TT gets ripped and Panik can be a saviour....well, Panik's best season was 17pts in 78gms and has a career .26ppg

Two questions. When is the salary cap for next year going to be announced and what where/are the injuries for all the players(proven and rumored)?
- jv526

Q denied any major injuries.

Then we found out that Anisimov was having surgery. And that Seabrook's back was so bad he was unable to walk onto the plane. Kane had whatever happened to his hand (either some sprains or some broken fingers, there was serious bruising and he had them taped). I thought there were reports about TT having some sort of shoulder problem too? IMO, Hossa, Shaw, and Toews were also all playing through some sort of injury.

So, I don't think we'll ever know more than that as Q said everyone was fine and then at least one player that we know of needed surgery.

Well the problem, is....this team struggled scoring goals 5 on 5/in regulation this year. Especially outside of Kane's line. So if Kruger/his line job "isn't to score goals"...then Toews is incapable because he doesn't have Saad/Sharp anymore (and news flash, they aren't coming back nor is any other high priced winger)....where will they improve their goal scoring up front?
- PatShart

and said player coming back from a pretty intensive wrist injury AND if he isn't helping contribute to his skill set, PK, then his value goes down.

Go back and look at the Blues PK.....We can blame crazy Q lineups all day long, but the Blues PK, and the stars not scoring is why this team is done. We can talk about the chances and what not, but they didn't capitalize.

So when you can't defend a PK, and your 5 on 5 socring is horrible, lots of pressure falls to top guys to carry the load......

- EnzoD

Is this the place where somebody takes Bickell's full cap hit and not sends back any money just because......OR where Teuvo is a top 6 player.....or rest of the core and no roster additions leads to a cup in 2017?

IF so....book me a vacation there.......

JJ, I loved the reference to Jerry Quarry. Great piece of writing.

The talk about whether or not to trade TT, the two general arguments against are that he is cost controlled, and the pitfalls of judging a player based on a sophomore season.

I think if they are going to trade him, his best destination would probably be a spot where there are other Finns. He seems a bit lonely and homesick at times, and as much as we lament the Timonen trade, 44 did make a huge difference in TT's game when he was here. I think their best bet is finding a similar story on another team and making a change of scenery deal, much as Morin/Panik was.

I think the mistake that stan has made and seems to not realize it is whne you get a young player that is either ECL or RFA and you look at him as a player you want to keep they should be very aggressive and get them signed long term early. Would leddy have taken 4.25 X 5/6? Would SAAD have taken 4.5 x6/7, Kruger and Shaw what would they have taken a year before they hit RFA? All these guys hawks wanted to keep but instead of being aggressive with contracts They wait until the are out of a contract and the guys may want a little more. Look at Hamorics, JVR's, ETC. Guys getting long term deals earlier then most expected. Its the wave of the future and Stan was not ahead of the curve he was behind.

In regard to Paink I have no idea where he might slot but If you look at EV goals per game per minute
last 2 years
panik 106, 15 and 11mins
Hossa 146 23 and 18 mins
shaw 157 20 and 15 mins
Sharp 144 21 and 17 mins
Ladd 157 26 and 18 mins

Sharp at the same age as Panik when he just got to Chicago
130 20 17 mins

So when you factor playing time (add 50% using 18 min) and figure 80 games in a season that would 17 EV goals a season.

Hossa 13 per season
Shaw 13
sharp 13
Ladd 14
Sharp at 24-25 16.25.

So the stats show that if you put him on the ice with good players and play him top 1-2 line minutes he will probably produce IMO. It passes the Stat text and for me passes the eye test. Plus I think he can play on either side. This would be my example that instead of doing a 1 year bridge which is what Stan would normally do for 1.1 Roll the dice and sign him long term. Give him a 1.25 X 1 and then a 1.5 X 4 (all at the same time) limited NTC. He gets to stay in the same city for a while and is signed till 30 and is guaranteed 7.25 mil. the other option is let him play next year 15 mins a game and put 20 goals 15 EV and 5 PP and he would command 2.5-3mil per year for 4 years. hawks need guys underpaid and right now we have as many overpaid as underpaid. Most good teams have 2/3 under paid and 1/3 overpaid.

The one that hurts is SAAD
160 G 46 EV in 17 mins.
- kmw4631

We know that the answer for Saad is no, he wouldn't have. Stan tried. I think he had learned (a little) from Leddy and was trying to prevent a repeat. So the Hawks tried to extend him early in the season and Saad and his agent said "nope. come find us after the playoffs." So Stan was forced to wait until after Saad had a stellar postseason, and then his agent said "we're not taking less than 6m." I believe they were offering him at least 5m a year and that was turned down.

Saad can keep claiming his agent did it all without running it by him which is silly, there's nothing wrong with wanting to max out your earnings in a sport where one injury could end your career. Saad just shot himself in the foot by saying he would take a hometown discount and then refusing to do so.

Can't speak to your other hypotheticals but Stan absolutely tried to extend Saad early and was turned down

Is this the place where somebody takes Bickell's full cap hit and not sends back any money just because......OR where Teuvo is a top 6 player.....or rest of the core and no roster additions leads to a cup in 2017?

IF so....book me a vacation there.......
- SteveRain

Something like that

There is a difference between being small and playing small. Kruger does not play small. He is strong along the walls and wins a lot of one on one battles by sheer force of will. It's not something you can teach. It just either exists in the man or it doesn't. I wouldn't even be thinking about trading Marcus Kruger. That literally just creates a problem. It solves nothing.
- Hawks_49

See Brendan Gallager - just to go with your point.

and said player coming back from a pretty intensive wrist injury AND if he isn't helping contribute to his skill set, PK, then his value goes down.

Go back and look at the Blues PK.....We can blame crazy Q lineups all day long, but the Blues PK, and the stars not scoring is why this team is done. We can talk about the chances and what not, but they didn't capitalize.

So when you can't defend a PK, and your 5 on 5 socring is horrible, lots of pressure falls to top guys to carry the load......
- SteveRain

Which of the assistant coaches is in charge of the power play? Should probably lay some blame there too for whatever they did that took the PP from looking really good a lot of the season and turning it into a poopshow by the end.

And whoever is in charge of the PK has a lot to answer for as well. Watching the Sharks' PP and PK, the Blues as well (and I haven't watched enough of the EC series to speak to those teams) there is so much movement, in all directions. Different players are scoring. Every team that played the Hawks knew that crowding up the middle or covering Panarin/Kane closely would prevent them from their one set play of Panarin one-timing it backdoor. And for whatever reason, the Hawks never adjusted. Roster/cap issues aside there's a lot from this past season that really needs to be fixed.

I know Al, I was being sarcastic and trying to put some perspective on the silliness of the call for Stan to make an equally big move.

As disappointing as our season ended I can't help but feel bad for the Caps fans. Washington had a special (regular) season and anything short of a Cup final appearance is a disappointment.
- DarthKane

I knew you were being sarcastic but I feel there will be considerable changes.
Orpik showed his true colors in the series as being an advantageous cheap shot artist.

The suspension he took and penalty last night hurt his team...Last night was a selfish play on his part.

I knew you were being sarcastic but I feel there will be considerable changes.
Orpik showed his true colors in the series as being an advantageous cheap shot artist.

The suspension he took and penalty last night hurt his team...Last night was a selfish play on his part.
- Al

That was a really bad penalty to take. Agree that it was super selfish

Right -You have to look at 2016-2017 AS WELL as years ahead and see what you have. Everyone loves Crow, but to save a few bucks in the next few years have you have to really consider it. Can they have 2 1B type of goalies you feel you can win with? If so, you may have to pull the trigger and roll the dice. Cap Hell exists we all say and we all want to keep our guys, but reality sucks and hard decisions have to be made. Stan has to think 2 steps ahead and not take band-aid types of deals. Which is other reasons why he also traded Daley, Garbutt and Scuderi, he was planning the team's future finances. He tried to make the team better at the time, but also looked into the future where he has a few extra dollars to play with going forward. The minor deals got him a few extra notes. If they still have Daley's cap, would there be a Kruger signing?
- stan-ley-cups

My point stands....U save maybe $2 mill the next season and maybe the same afterwards but the risk is high by dealing Crawford.

The MO for the Hawks is they sacrifice role players and keep the core guys...
Is Crawford a core guy? Is Seabrook a core guy?
If so look elsewhere....Is my bet.

Q denied any major injuries.

Then we found out that Anisimov was having surgery. And that Seabrook's back was so bad he was unable to walk onto the plane. Kane had whatever happened to his hand (either some sprains or some broken fingers, there was serious bruising and he had them taped). I thought there were reports about TT having some sort of shoulder problem too? IMO, Hossa, Shaw, and Toews were also all playing through some sort of injury.

So, I don't think we'll ever know more than that as Q said everyone was fine and then at least one player that we know of needed surgery.
- maria_wyeth

you play = "fine" in Q speak...he will never talk about post season injurys afte losing a series...i suspect craw was concussed thanks to the asshattery of brouwer...he is a big body but man is he a stone hands around the net...he has gotten to gimmes vs hawks and stars and almost biffed them both