Some. He's still young. Has vision, skill and high hockey sense.

But . . . questions about what his best position is: C or RW, evidence suggests right now RW.

The other (related) issue is his physical willingness, and resulting ability to compete with bigger centers.

He is about the same size as Kruger, for example, but Kruger wins a lot more pucks along the wall against bigger players, and he shuts down bigger players.

So he's sort of a man without a position on the Hawks. And it may be a classic case of him finding a better situation with another team but the Hawks getting some value for him.
- John Jaeckel

Unless Teuvo can bring back an asset to fill a current void (ie 4 or 5 dman) then I don't see the value in moving him, especially if Shaw is dealt. Without Shaw Teuvo becomes that versatile forward that can play any forward position (some better than others) and move up and down the lineup. Would Teravainen be as good as Shaw at this? No, but he's the next best option to fill this type of role. Plus, Stan will need Teravainen's low cap hit for this season and potentially beyond.

I know Al, I was being sarcastic and trying to put some perspective on the silliness of the call for Stan to make an equally big move.

As disappointing as our season ended I can't help but feel bad for the Caps fans. Washington had a special (regular) season and anything short of a Cup final appearance is a disappointment.
- DarthKane

You may be joking, but it should be a serious question for Washington. At least Chicago has won things, Washington hasn't even made it to the Finals with that bunch (I don't think anyways).

If they were able to get a haul for Ovechkin, I think they would be wise to take it.

Teams I would watch with regard to Crawford: Buffalo, Winnipeg, Philadelphia, Toronto, Arizona, the Islanders and Ottawa.

Crawford to PHI makes no sense. Sounds like lazy journalism and going off of the old stereotypes that the Flyers have a lot of money and no goaltending. They are not going to trade assets for a goalie with such a large cap hit. Mason has probably been a top 5 regular season goalie over the last 2 years and Neuvirth played well in the playoffs. IMO, Flyers are comfortable with either goaltender starting games. And, in a more general opinion, I think the days of high priced goaltenders may be slowly coming to an end. It happens to often that teams make deep playoff run with "middle of the pack" goalies as opposed to the high priced veterans winning cups.

EDM has had 4 or 5 teams call about the no. 4 pick, the return they are looking for is a 1D. Perfect, send 7 there for the cap space and take Chychrun (6'2 - 215). Leaves room to keep Shaw and bring in Campbell and Kempny....
- Sundevil

Under your plan the Defense gets WORSE and we lose valuable leadership. Seabrook got a 1 MYA raise. Big deal. If we have to start trading guys like him we may as well go full rebuild. Ridiculous idea to move Seabrook. A longer summer will pay huge dividends for him. He damn near won that game against St.Louis...he just didn't get the bounce this time.

Heavens no - a competitive athlete that likes to party?

If I were a Vezina contender coming off of my best season, watching $40MM+ of offense talent and a mad scientist of a coach crap the bed in front of me, two days would be nowhere near enough drinking time.

So let's trade him

When reason conflicts with an alternate reality, assassinate the character.
- Return of the Roar

You make some really good points.

But . . . and I am not implying anything about Crawford per se. Alcoholism and addiction are real, and athletes are not impervious to them.

Bob Probert, Theo Fleury and many others limited their own careers, hurt their teams, caused a lot of wreckage around them—and they played in a former, more "dismissive," less media-dominated era.

Just like the hall of fame player who used to spend afternoons in the back room of an italian restaurant in the Loop—drinking up to 5 bottles of wine by himself.

The issue is society is a lot more intrusive now, and a lot less tolerant of alcoholic or addictive behaviors. And there' s a lot more money at stake now: for players, agents, sponsors and teams.

Don't kid yourself.

The odds, epidemiologically, of an NHL team having one to two players on the roster at any time who are addicts or raging alcoholics are pretty high. Being an athlete does NOT make you immune to it. In fact, in hockey especially, drinking is part of the culture. And if you have a genetic predisposition—which is proven to exist—look out.

So I think you should run the bolded comment above through that filter.

You may be joking, but it should be a serious question for Washington. At least Chicago has won things, Washington hasn't even made it to the Finals with that bunch (I don't think anyways).

If they were able to get a haul for Ovechkin, I think they would be wise to take it.
- stashu

I said it at the beginning of the playoffs - forget the Caps - no wheelhorse on the back end and Barry Trotz coaching. Bad combination. The playoffs aren't Thursday night in February playing in Toronto, Buffalo or Columbus.

Don't blame it on Ovi - what the Caps need to go all the way is a Duncan Keith, Roman Josi, Viktor Hedman - Brooks Orpik doesn't cut it.

I said it at the beginning of the playoffs - forget the Caps - no wheelhorse on the back end and Barry Trotz coaching. Bad combination. The playoffs aren't Thursday night in February playing in Toronto, Buffalo or Columbus.

Don't blame it on Ovi - what the Caps need to go all the way is a Duncan Keith, Roman Josi, Viktor Hedman - Brooks Orpik doesn't cut it.
- RickJ

bingo.

I agree with you that Kruger is better. Just making the comment that Danault looked to be a Kruger-like player.
- Dannyboy

Yes

so is RW...my respect and for 81 is off the charts but he is a spot 1 RW and mostly 3rd line guy...is he capable of a bounce back year...yes but declining numbers over the last 2 years argue against that...

i don't see how they solve the line mate problems with toews even with bicks and shaw gone...
- bogiedoc

This is why I think the lineup has to be:

XXX/Panik - Toews - Kane
Panarin - Anisimov - XXX
XXX/Panik - Kruger - Hossa
Desjardins - Rasmussen - XXX

For top 6 production, we've got holes at 1LW and 1RW with the lineup iced this last year. Kane can make just about any combo of linemates look good. Panarin was a great player away from Kane because he didn't defer to him too much. So why not split them up??? If we've only got 4 true top-6 guys, put 2 on each of the top two lines, not 3 on one line and 1 on the other.

or trade Kruger and keep them all.
- TTtime

Or monkeys could fly out of my butt, because that has about as much chance of happening as Kruger getting traded right now.

So let's be logical here.

1) You feel Kruger is not worth $3 million a year. Why would any of 29 NHL GMs, assuming you're right, not share your opinion? That's one issue.

2) Rarely, if ever, is a guy just signed to a multi-year deal, traded right before the deal kicks in. Has it EVER happened?

3) Third line shutdown C. Who assumes that role if Kruger is dealt?

4) Let's say Stanley disregards all of the above, there IS a market for player you feel is overpaid, and he deals him. How does $3 million or less in cap relief solve Shaw's new deal, and TT and Panarin the following summer, TVR too I believe? It doesn't come close.

Unless you are going to unload the Bickell contract, trading TT makes zero sense. You cannot get another meaningful player without taking more salary.

Not only that, TT has skills but his play hasn't necessarily warranted a huge raise at this point, so unless his management team wants to play hardball I couldn't see his next deal being gigantic, I'm thinking < 2mil/yr, most likely less.
- dstainer

Agreed 100%. They need to solve Bickell this summer. But I suspect that is a given. Probably buy out the last year.

Crawford to PHI makes no sense. Sounds like lazy journalism and going off of the old stereotypes that the Flyers have a lot of money and no goaltending. They are not going to trade assets for a goalie with such a large cap hit. Mason has probably been a top 5 regular season goalie over the last 2 years and Neuvirth played well in the playoffs. IMO, Flyers are comfortable with either goaltender starting games. And, in a more general opinion, I think the days of high priced goaltenders may be slowly coming to an end. It happens to often that teams make deep playoff run with "middle of the pack" goalies as opposed to the high priced veterans winning cups.
- wolphnuts12

Philly will never win a Cup with Steve Mason or Michael Neuvirth in goal. Do I need to show you the shot from Center Ice the went 5-hole on Stevie??

Agreed. Draper was a bit more of a buzz saw, energy type. But both tough as nails to play against defensively. Draper is as much a comparison for Kruger as Shaw or maybe more.
- John Jaeckel

Thanks John. I always liked watching the wings for some reason and I thought they put together some really great teams in the past.

1LW - Any possible candidates in your opinion outside of the Hawks roster?

Thanks John. I always liked watching the wings for some reason and I thought they put together some really great teams in the past.

1LW - Any possible candidates in your opinion outside of the Hawks roster?
- 93Joe

Versteeg on the cheap

TT isn't going anywhere, IMO, because the Hawks #1 need this summer is cap space. Why would they trade a decent bottom 6 forward making less than $1 million this year? Two other reasons they don't move him are: 1) He didn't play that well this year, so his return won't be very good, and 2) He's a RFA next year, so they can still choose to trade his rights, or just take the draft picks from the team with whom he signs.
- tvetter

You may be right. All good arguments for holding on to him. Here's the other side and why it's worth at least shopping him.

1) Does he regress further next year—or add to the emerging "brand" that he is Charmin soft and therefore limited?
2) HOW do you obtain the players you need to get back into contention: at least onelegit d-man and a LW? Guys like Kempny are a roll of the dice at best. So the other option is trade. And you trade a player when his value is at its highest.
3) The Hawks have damn few "replaceable" or non-essential guys who can bring value in return. Which goes back to your argument. TT's cost-certainty THIS YEAR makes him even mopre appealing as a trade chip.

I think the mistake that stan has made and seems to not realize it is whne you get a young player that is either ECL or RFA and you look at him as a player you want to keep they should be very aggressive and get them signed long term early. Would leddy have taken 4.25 X 5/6? Would SAAD have taken 4.5 x6/7, Kruger and Shaw what would they have taken a year before they hit RFA? All these guys hawks wanted to keep but instead of being aggressive with contracts They wait until the are out of a contract and the guys may want a little more. Look at Hamorics, JVR's, ETC. Guys getting long term deals earlier then most expected. Its the wave of the future and Stan was not ahead of the curve he was behind.

In regard to Paink I have no idea where he might slot but If you look at EV goals per game per minute
last 2 years
panik 106, 15 and 11mins
Hossa 146 23 and 18 mins
shaw 157 20 and 15 mins
Sharp 144 21 and 17 mins
Ladd 157 26 and 18 mins

Sharp at the same age as Panik when he just got to Chicago
130 20 17 mins

So when you factor playing time (add 50% using 18 min) and figure 80 games in a season that would 17 EV goals a season.

Hossa 13 per season
Shaw 13
sharp 13
Ladd 14
Sharp at 24-25 16.25.

So the stats show that if you put him on the ice with good players and play him top 1-2 line minutes he will probably produce IMO. It passes the Stat text and for me passes the eye test. Plus I think he can play on either side. This would be my example that instead of doing a 1 year bridge which is what Stan would normally do for 1.1 Roll the dice and sign him long term. Give him a 1.25 X 1 and then a 1.5 X 4 (all at the same time) limited NTC. He gets to stay in the same city for a while and is signed till 30 and is guaranteed 7.25 mil. the other option is let him play next year 15 mins a game and put 20 goals 15 EV and 5 PP and he would command 2.5-3mil per year for 4 years. hawks need guys underpaid and right now we have as many overpaid as underpaid. Most good teams have 2/3 under paid and 1/3 overpaid.

The one that hurts is SAAD
160 G 46 EV in 17 mins.

Versteeg on the cheap
- EnzoD

Lmao I see we are going down that road again.

You may be right. All good arguments for holding on to him. Here's the other side and why it's worth at least shopping him.

1) Does he regress further next year—or add to the emerging "brand" that he is Charmin soft and therefore limited?
2) HOW do you obtain the players you need to get back into contention: at least onelegit d-man and a LW? Guys like Kempny are a roll of the dice at best. So the other option is trade. And you trade a player when his value is at its highest.
3) The Hawks have damn few "replaceable" or non-essential guys who can bring value in return. Which goes back to your argument. TT's cost-certainty THIS YEAR makes him even mopre appealing as a trade chip.
- John Jaeckel

Shoulder injury this summer = no power lifting = expect much of the same Boy vs Men results, IMO.

EDIT: If TT can bring you another ELC Top 4 projected D or Top 6 projected Power Winger, I would pull the trigger. TT is still a Top 6 RW on a handful of teams for his puck distribution. Hawks just have too many perimeter playmakers. Teams like the NJD or Hurricanes could use his skill set, IMO.

Some. He's still young. Has vision, skill and high hockey sense.

But . . . questions about what his best position is: C or RW, evidence suggests right now RW.

The other (related) issue is his physical willingness, and resulting ability to compete with bigger centers.

He is about the same size as Kruger, for example, but Kruger wins a lot more pucks along the wall against bigger players, and he shuts down bigger players.

So he's sort of a man without a position on the Hawks. And it may be a classic case of him finding a better situation with another team but the Hawks getting some value for him.
- John Jaeckel

I guess it always comes down to the value you can get.

I know that there were maybe higher expectations as to his progression, it just seems that he has shown signs and maybe it is too early to give up?

It's a tough call to be sure. Two years from now you don't want to be having the same discussion if his value has further diminished, like a Yakupov situation.

Shaw is a pretty valuable asset I think, good guy to have on the team. He looked good from what I saw of the St. Louis series.

Crawford has always been underrated because of the team in front of him. He still might have a couple good years in the tank at 31.

If money allows it, maybe sign McGinn for one of the top 9 LW positions? Plays a hard game and goes down low and to the net. Did pretty well in Anaheim after he was dealt.

I would have to agree that Toews did not live up to his contract this year. He has to put up more points. It is just a fact. His cap hit means less depth scoring. It means they can't afford a top level wing to put along side him. I believe snapitupstairs laid out some things Toews could improve on in the offensive soon a couple of weeks ago. I think he was spot on.

Toews style of play, even in the offensive zone, is so physically demanding. He takes a lot of punishment, which eventually is going to take its toll on him. I'd like to see his offensive game evolve a bit more and get away from the constant cycle game. I'm not sure there is another top tier star in the league that gets worked over along the boards and around the crease as much as Toews does.

That being said Q needs to adjust too. The luxury of having 10 19 81 or 20 19 81 as a top line are gone. He can't just throw them out as a dominant shut down line and dominate scoring line. With cap constraints and no consistent top LW Q can't put Toews out there with an aging Hossa and say shut down their top guys and score for me 5 on 5 too. We saw how poorly that line scored 5 on 5 last season. Toews can't do everything. He's human. I still don't know why we didn't see more of Panarin with Toews and Hossa last year.

Here's the fly in the ointment...

Trading Crawford is just kicking the can down the road unless you take back little if any money.

Mason makes $4mil....If he comes in and plays well his next contract is in the $5.5-$6 mill neighborhood.

If Darling gets half the starts and does well in the playoffs his next contract is probably close to $4 mill....

Not sure the front office takes the risk to save minimal money to trade one of their best players over the past 2 seasons.

If by chance the Hawks miss the playoffs some of the buzz disappears no matter how many Cups they have won recently...A sizeable risk as with their payroll they need 21K+ every game.

Kruger wouldn't be my first choice to trade but he is just as likely not to hold up as Shaw is, and maybe the front office would rather have 65. AA could fill the same role as Kruger if they decide to keep TT that might be the ticket.
- Al

Al,

Maybe I didn't make this clear. You don't acquire a Mason or an Anderson or a Pavelec with any thought of extending them after their current deal.

What dealing Crawford for Mason and say a pick does is, save you nearly $2 million next year, and possibly $6 million the year after, when oh, by the way, you need to extend Artemi Panarin among other things.

Hello?

But this is assuming you feel Darling most likely can carry the load for 60 games or so. Because Mason is not a guy I would hand the #1 reins to, certainly not over Darling.

Big "IF," but I will also tell you the Hawks seem to have decided in the Spring of 2015 that Darling MIGHT have that potential. Maybe the jury's out. Maybe they have decided at this point, Darling is just a career backup, albeit a good one. Maybe they are still exploring that possibility of him being a #1.

No question, you roll the dice a bit with the G position for the next year or two. How much is up to the Hawks, Q, and Jimmy Waite.

But you might need $5 million a year to sign Panarin. Where does it come from? This is the world the Hawks are in. People need to prepare for these kinds of trade-offs.

And I am not "speculating" about Crawford being "shopped." Which is also different (right now) than absolutely gone. I am hearing it from someone who would know.

ALSO,

AA took over Kruger's role and the PK went from 10th in the league to 24th. Fact. AA is a disaster in the dot, which becomes a real problem in short-handed defensive zone draws. He's also just not the defensive player Kruger is in some ways. A solid two-way player for sure. But he does not "replace" what Kruger does, we just saw this movie.

Also, can someone tell me ONE INSTANCE where a guy signed to a long term deal is traded the week before it kicks in?

I'm not arguing for putting Kruger in the hall of fame. Nor do I WANT to see the Hawks part with any of these three players. I am relating what I am hearing. And what I am hearing makes sense if you look at it dispassionately and realistically.

Seems like there's a lot of denial about the situation the Hawks are in with regard to the cap, existing contracts and new contracts coming up, especially next summer.

Versteeg on the cheap
- EnzoD

Yes....do it! Bring Steeger back Stan! Although Versteeg would probably be hesitant on returning to Chicago again since Stan traded him twice.

I guess it always comes down to the value you can get.

I know that there were maybe higher expectations as to his progression, it just seems that he has shown signs and maybe it is too early to give up?

It's a tough call to be sure. Two years from now you don't want to be having the same discussion if his value has further diminished, like a Yakupov situation.

Shaw is a pretty valuable asset I think, good guy to have on the team. He looked good from what I saw of the St. Louis series.

Crawford has always been underrated because of the team in front of him. He still might have a couple good years in the tank at 31.
- Aetherial

No one blast me for this but Yakupov intrigues me. I wonder how he would look with Panarin and Anisimov. ( I have not seen him play much the last couple of years). That would certainly be one way to catch some Russian lighting in a bottle for cheap. Would the Oilers would give him up for cheap?

Yes....do it! Bring Steeger back Stan! Although Versteeg would probably be hesitant on returning to Chicago again since Stan traded him twice.
- DarthKane

If he was open to a 1 year $1mil deal I think he would add some nice depth on LW either as a fill-in with 19 or on line 3. Wouldn't mind seeing Fleishmann brought back for dirt cheap for 3LW. Steeger had a solid campaign in Carolina but was banged up for most of his time in LA.