Geez, again with all the silliness.

The repeated teeth gnashing about contract numbers is kind of wasted breath. "I don't like X player at Y salary". If Stan held firm and said "I'm not paying you a dime over $9.5M" and 19 and 88 said stuff it and went to free agency, there would be pitchforks and torches at his house. There are two sides for every negotiation. In those negotiations you have to take into account the market and what that player does/means to that team.

The Hawks have had a good team for a long time, hence they have good players that need to be paid. I can't imagine the comments here if 19,88, or 7 were allowed to walk or traded when their contracts were about to be up.

Are the contracts great? No, but it's the nature of the beast. Do I think different decisions could have been made? In some cases yes, but overall I think the FO has done an above average job. My only big problem was the Sharp deal.

Also, all this "he needs to live up to his contract" stuff is peeing in the wind as well. Players will have down years. Exhibit A: Patrick Sharp. Reasons for said down years can vary. These are not excuses, but they do happen. I fully expect a number of our big guns to have better years next year, but If Kane doesnt average a point per game next year, is he suddenly not worth his contract?

Thanks JJ for the post and info. I really appreciate this forum (even if I really don't understand a lot of the vitriol). Man, this wasn't even fueled by scotch this time!


- Chunk

Post of the month!

Russia Hockey ‏@russiahockey_en
The Russian national team coaches have called up these following Washington Capitals players: defenseman Dmitry Orlov, and forwards Alexander Ovechkin and Evgeny Kuznetsov.

--Russian Ice Hockey Federation

Yikes - didn't even give it 12 hours to let them deal with the loss. Don't the Canadian and US players have a choice in the matter? I've been watching too much "The Americans" lately.

Russia Hockey ‏@russiahockey_en
The Russian national team coaches have called up these following Washington Capitals players: defenseman Dmitry Orlov, and forwards Alexander Ovechkin and Evgeny Kuznetsov.

--Russian Ice Hockey Federation

Yikes - didn't even give it 12 hours to let them deal with the loss. Don't the Canadian and US players have a choice in the matter? I've been watching too much "The Americans" lately.
- pdx2ord

as expected that didn't take long...i suspect they took a direct flight to moscow...

well with that win by the pens alot of brackets got blown up...nice comeback by the caps...ahh the randomess of hockey..the pens hold off a mighty choke job and a kid goalie with 13 nhl games stuffs the high flying caps...

i suspect the mega star $$$/goal brigade would be all over malkin/crosby for 1 goal in 6 games if they had lost...imagine that a team gets to the conf finals with only 1 goal from $20 million in 6 games

as expected that didn't take long...i suspect they took a direct flight to moscow...

well with that win by the pens alot of brackets got blown up...nice comeback by the caps...ahh the randomess of hockey..the pens hold off a mighty choke job and a kid goalie with 13 nhl games stuffs the high flying caps...

i suspect the mega star $$$/goal brigade would be all over malkin/crosby for 1 goal in 6 games if they had lost...imagine that a team gets to the conf finals with only 1 goal from $20 million in 6 games
- bogiedoc

Yup

Caps waste yet another great regular season...

...extra Crosby is too much Crosby.

Go Blues!
- ArlingtonRob

can't both team lose...stars in the conf finals is a joke = that team blows

Daley played great last night and was on the ice for the last minute of a 3-3 game 6.

If we are to simply agree to disagree, does this mean you'll stop your hate posts about Q? Or I just need to stop pointing out all the excuses Toews is allowed for his dismal season and playoffs?

And if "most GMs" allegedly want Toews (not sure at 10.3million) is supposed to hold weight, what about Q getting voted by players as the coach most all want to play for?
- PatShart

You do seem to be preoccupied with Toews, and it seems clear that Q did not have the players' confidence this year in the same way he has in the past.

So it would seem they have to upgrade at 4D, but it can't be too good an upgrade because only 3 D's get protected for expansion next summer? Maybe that has something do with why Stanley didn't keep Oduya, because he knew there would be a claim on him and they'd get nothing for him
- 333inthe3rd

They didn't get any more for Oduya losing him to free agency than they would have gotten for him losing him to expansion draft. Nothing is nothing, no matter how you get it!

Since we have no idea of what is demands are or what the all else may be, trading him and signing Weise makes the team worse. IMO.
- TTtime

You know what you know as far as the Shaw situation. You don't know what other people know, unless they tell you.

I don't advocate signing Weise under any circumstance unless it were for under $1.5 million per, then, meh, maybe.

Post of the month!

- MjulQvist

Ha! Thanks. One other thing I forgot to add was that I think going forward, unless you think you have a truly generational talent (and Panarin might be), they should do 4 year deals max. In my opinion, Seabrook was on the fringe of that status. I'm only slightly upset with his term, but I think he is a really good player (yes this year was definitely not his best, but please point out a Hawks defenseman that had a significantly better year) I thought the whole team - as a unit - played slightly above average this year.

Shaw's back may not hold up. I get that.....we shall see.

However, Kruger's coming off a substantial wrist injury for a center that is very alarming.

I don't buy the upside thing...I'm sorry. It's not there....For years I heard about Bolland's and Bolland at least produced in big moments and given the chance in 2013 as #2 center he bombed and consequently was moved because of his cap hit and value brought back.

Kruger hasn'st sniffed Bolland's big game moments and I can't even name more then 1 big Kruger goal outside of OT vs Anh.

I just hate the deal. Really do. Way too much money for a player with very little return. I hope I am dead wrong, but I can't complain about bad deals neither ran anyone backing Kruger after what he got. Pure robbery. God bless his agent.

Marcus Kruger.....went into wrist surgery with 1 point and came out 3 million dollars a year richer on the other side............
- SteveRain

Cup Final, Boston, Game 4 or game 6, I forget. Huge (and skillful) goal.

As for the surgery, having had minor, yet incisive surgery twice last year, I will just say, it takes at least a year for all the nerve function to return and to feel 100% right. In spite of that, Kruger was 49% at the dot in the playoffs. His shot has NEVER been able to break a pane of glass.

He is a valuable player for what he does. Which are the kinds of things that most fans don't see. Here we are evaluating players strictly on the basis of goals scored. Maybe the Hawks should coax Jimmy Carson or Rob Brown out of retirement. They were big goal scorers.

You talk to people in hockey, you see how the Hawks value Kruger, there are valid reasons for it.

It is silly to compare Kruger to Shaw. Weise to Shaw? yes, because they are similarly tasked players, and Shaw is a lot better. Marchand to Shaw? Yes.

Kruger is more of a Sami Pahlsson, Dominic Moore, Jarett Stoll, Manny Malhotra type player. Not exciting players, but effective at what they do.

You know what you know as far as the Shaw situation. You don't know what other people know, unless they tell you.

I don't advocate signing Weise under any circumstance unless it were for under $1.5 million per, then, meh, maybe.
- John Jaeckel

I can't argue with this at all. He may have more scoring touch right now, but as you kind of alluded to before, we have some Rockford guys that have a similar game.

I never held out much hope that they would sign any of the three forwards they got at the TDL.

Despite lack of scoring touch, I always think of Kris Draper when I watch Kruger play. Solid defense by both, but Draper had a bit more scoring touch. That was also a different time for hockey.
- 93Joe

Agreed. Draper was a bit more of a buzz saw, energy type. But both tough as nails to play against defensively. Draper is as much a comparison for Kruger as Shaw or maybe more.

In what regard? Asking Bolland to play a 3/4C is pretty much his wheelhouse and wouldnt be very far off Kruger if healthy

Most of the time he disappointed was either A) when people hoped he would be the 2C in Chicago B) was injured C) trying to live up to that ridiculous contract Florida gave him

If he goes back to a bottom 6 checking center role is anyone really going to complain he isnt doing what is expected of him? I dont really think so. Sure, give Kruger the edge in faceoffs and a slight edge in defensive play, but Bolland likely has a slight edge in offense but Bolland was a pest that was very valuable in the playoffs and was the Marcus Kruger before Marcus Kruger. Bolland was single handedly in Joe Thortons head all series in 2010 and terrorized H.Sedin in his Hart trophy year

Again, if you could get Bolland to come in a replace Kruger as that tweener 3C/4C at half the cost or less, is that really dropping off the roster by much when you have added money to address other areas of the roster now?
- hawkeytalkman

Bolland is competitive as hell and at least a few years ago was a guy you could count on to come up big in big games.

BUT . . . weak in the dot and you want to talk injury/concussion prone? Good God. Bolland has been knocked silly more than Jerry Quarry. Bad back. He's made out of glass.

Kruger as a defensive centerman is the much better player at this point, and a better bet to play 75-80 games.

Could be but lets not also forget that while we can sit here and praise Hossa's 200 ft game, and I will and stand by it, he's NOT finishing as a top 6 player anymore. That's a fact.

So 19's lw next year will be............Panik? Thought Panik was a good but very little sample size.....Shaw's got the versatility and before Ladd he helped jump start that line.

that's all I am getting at. Oh well....I'm moving on...it's pointless. Just hate when the hawks waste money and lose players because of it.
- SteveRain

This is interesting. Take a look at Toews' numbers this past year. Goals? Pretty much typical. +/-, meh ok.

Assists? WAY DOWN. Why?

Could be a couple of things.

Hossa declining or just having a really off year (in addition to a little decline).

No Saad (and Shaw/Panik/Dano/TT/Sekac on the left wing instead). Which in turn might have suppressed Hossa's numbers a bit.

Richard Panik was a nice find by Stanley, but I think we're getting out over our skis a bit to assume he can play 1LW and help solve the above problem. To me he looks like a nice energy/third line LW who can get maybe 30-35 points in a full season and be a plus player, maybe even get 150-200 meaningful hits.

LW on Toews line is a vacancy at present. Ladd was starting to click there, but it is doubtful he is back next year—not impossible, but doubtful.

What if it comes down to this:

Keeping Kruger, losing Shaw

OR

Trading Kruger, Signing Bolland at $1-$1.5 mil, AND keeping Shaw

which would you do?
- hawkeytalkman

Honest answer. Not sure, it's a tough choice. But if I worry Bolland can't play 40 gems, it's a no-brainer, because Shaw does not replace what Kruger does.

Isn't Bolland's career over? Did he even play in 15 games last year bc of recurring back problems? If Bolland could be close to the 2013 Bolland, sure thing. I think that guy is long gone....
- EnzoD

Exactly.

Those are 3 pretty interesting names.

Has Teravainen's stock fallen that much?

I like both players a lot. I just think Shaw offers more bang for the buck

The thing is Shaw HAS grown as a player. Kruger is still pretty much the same as he has ever been.

Put Shaw with skilled players and he has a positive effect on all their metrics. Kruger? In some areas BUT not on the scoresheet.
- TTtime

Where is it written, except on this and I guess maybe some other threads, it's a trade-off between Shaw and Kruger?

Maybe it's a trade-off between Shaw and another guy whose best position is right wing . . . dare I say it . . . TT?

This is interesting. Take a look at Toews' numbers this past year. Goals? Pretty much typical. +/-, meh ok.

Assists? WAY DOWN. Why?

Could be a couple of things.

Hossa declining or just having a really off year (in addition to a little decline).

No Saad (and Shaw/Panik/Dano/TT/Sekac on the left wing instead). Which in turn might have suppressed Hossa's numbers a bit.

Richard Panik was a nice find by Stanley, but I think we're getting out over our skis a bit to assume he can play 1LW and help solve the above problem. To me he looks like a nice energy/third line LW who can get maybe 30-35 points in a full season and be a plus player, maybe even get 150-200 meaningful hits.

LW on Toews line is a vacancy at present. Ladd was starting to click there, but it is doubtful he is back next year—not impossible, but doubtful.
- John Jaeckel

I agree, JJ. Loved Panik's energy, but I doubt he has the finish to play on that top line.

Those are 3 pretty interesting names.

Has Teravainen's stock fallen that much?
- Aetherial

Some. He's still young. Has vision, skill and high hockey sense.

But . . . questions about what his best position is: C or RW, evidence suggests right now RW.

The other (related) issue is his physical willingness, and resulting ability to compete with bigger centers.

He is about the same size as Kruger, for example, but Kruger wins a lot more pucks along the wall against bigger players, and he shuts down bigger players.

So he's sort of a man without a position on the Hawks. And it may be a classic case of him finding a better situation with another team but the Hawks getting some value for him.

This is interesting. Take a look at Toews' numbers this past year. Goals? Pretty much typical. +/-, meh ok.

Assists? WAY DOWN. Why?

Could be a couple of things.

Hossa declining or just having a really off year (in addition to a little decline).

No Saad (and Shaw/Panik/Dano/TT/Sekac on the left wing instead). Which in turn might have suppressed Hossa's numbers a bit.

Richard Panik was a nice find by Stanley, but I think we're getting out over our skis a bit to assume he can play 1LW and help solve the above problem. To me he looks like a nice energy/third line LW who can get maybe 30-35 points in a full season and be a plus player, maybe even get 150-200 meaningful hits.

LW on Toews line is a vacancy at present. Ladd was starting to click there, but it is doubtful he is back next year—not impossible, but doubtful.
- John Jaeckel

so is RW...my respect and for 81 is off the charts but he is a spot 1 RW and mostly 3rd line guy...is he capable of a bounce back year...yes but declining numbers over the last 2 years argue against that...

i don't see how they solve the line mate problems with toews even with bicks and shaw gone...

so is RW...my respect and for 81 is off the charts but he is a spot 1 RW and mostly 3rd line guy...is he capable of a bounce back year...yes but declining numbers over the last 2 years argue against that...

i don't see how they solve the line mate problems with toews even with bicks and shaw gone...
- bogiedoc

EDM has had 4 or 5 teams call about the no. 4 pick, the return they are looking for is a 1D. Perfect, send 7 there for the cap space and take Chychrun (6'2 - 215). Leaves room to keep Shaw and bring in Campbell and Kempny....

Another masterful coaching job by Barry Trotz, the NHL's most overrated coach since Dan Bylsma.
- RickJ

Hey!!! Watch it mister!!

so is RW...my respect and for 81 is off the charts but he is a spot 1 RW and mostly 3rd line guy...is he capable of a bounce back year...yes but declining numbers over the last 2 years argue against that...

i don't see how they solve the line mate problems with toews even with bicks and shaw gone...
- bogiedoc

Do you think declining numbers were the result of injuries and having played so much hockey? I sure do. Even at 38 with a proper amount of time over the summer to recuperate, Hoss is still a big time player who knows how to win and set an example in the dressing room. (I'm sure he had a very positive effect on Panik too).

Playing him on the 3rd line means somebody much better has taken his spot on Line 1 - and I don't know who that would be.