It's not about who has a better goalie, necessarily. I don't think the Leafs, Canucks or Oil (unless they make some other, big moves this offseason) have any delusions about being competitive next season, so overpaying for Fleury isn't in their best interests. He'd be very useful for all three down the road, but if it's not an immediate need, then they are going to pay less.

I think the Sharks are happy with Jones, and expect him to be the starter for some time. He looked great last night for the most part.

The Sabres, I'm not entirely sure about, honestly. I know they got sub-par goaltending this season, but have they given up on Lehner being the future for them? I just don't know enough about their situation.

Dallas is in win now mode, and Calgary a lot further into their rebuild than the others I mentioned above. I think these would both be solid places for Fleury.
- SolidGoldBricks

I understand the point about contending, but using the Oil as an example, how many games did they lose this season due to 1 goal games that could have been won had they had a better goalie? That's why I said before, if they are just saying (frank) it we aren't winning just yet let's stay with an average goalie, it's putting even more pressure on the team that is trying to get a winning attitude. I would think they need a really solid goalie & then let these young guns fire - granted their D needs a player or 2 but they can get that (Harmonic comes to mind), & with a good goalie winning games may become a lot easier. These teams have had their time on the bottom, it's about time they take the next step & having an average goalie isn't doing that.

I understand the point about contending, but using the Oil as an example, how many games did they lose this season due to 1 goal games that could have been won had they had a better goalie? That's why I said before, if they are just saying (frank) it we aren't winning just yet let's stay with an average goalie, it's putting even more pressure on the team that is trying to get a winning attitude. I would think they need a really solid goalie & then let these young guns fire - granted their D needs a player or 2 but they can get that (Harmonic comes to mind), & with a good goalie winning games may become a lot easier. These teams have had their time on the bottom, it's about time they take the next step & having an average goalie isn't doing that.
- Aussiepenguin

I think you have it backwards. They need the D before the goalie. Henrik Lundqvist would struggle in Edmonton right now. For all we know Talbot really is a good goalie and the d is just that bad.

I understand the point about contending, but using the Oil as an example, how many games did they lose this season due to 1 goal games that could have been won had they had a better goalie? That's why I said before, if they are just saying (frank) it we aren't winning just yet let's stay with an average goalie, it's putting even more pressure on the team that is trying to get a winning attitude. I would think they need a really solid goalie & then let these young guns fire - granted their D needs a player or 2 but they can get that (Harmonic comes to mind), & with a good goalie winning games may become a lot easier. These teams have had their time on the bottom, it's about time they take the next step & having an average goalie isn't doing that.
- Aussiepenguin

I agree with you. Oilers are a unique case, because I think they still believe Talbot can be their guy. I am not sure if he can be, but with the team he's played behind, it won't surprise me to see him succeed with better d. I just don't think they overpay, especially for the oldest of the goalies that may be available. Now, if Bishop and Andersen aren't available (which they should be, just as MAF should be if there's going to be an expansion), MAF's stock goes way up. If those rebuilding teams are going to overpay for a goalie, however, I think they would rather it be one of the younger guys.

I agree with you. Oilers are a unique case, because I think they still believe Talbot can be their guy. I am not sure if he can be, but with the team he's played behind, it won't surprise me to see him succeed with better d. I just don't think they overpay, especially for the oldest of the goalies that may be available. Now, if Bishop and Andersen aren't available (which they should be, just as MAF should be if there's going to be an expansion), MAF's stock goes way up. If those rebuilding teams are going to overpay for a goalie, however, I think they would rather it be one of the younger guys.
- SolidGoldBricks

This. Andersen and Bishop should be available before MAF. In an expansion draft, I'd assume that Vegas would rather have Andersen, Gibson, Bishop, or Vaselevski than MAF.

Eklund: Rumors of Calgary Beyond Boudreau. Marc Andre Fleury? Buzz@1
- Eklund

"I am hearing the Flames and Boudreau have had multiple discussions, and a source tells me how one of those discussions includes the possibility of the Flames trading for Marc Andre Fleury at the NHL Draft. The Wild and Sens are also in on Boudreau and will talk to the coach in the next day or so. "

thought you vowed to never talk about rumors involving players while they were playing in post season

I think you have it backwards. They need the D before the goalie. Henrik Lundqvist would struggle in Edmonton right now. For all we know Talbot really is a good goalie and the d is just that bad.
- Victoro311

I think they'll get at least 1 D man this offseason. As I said with the close games they lost through the year, I have no doubt a great goalie would turn those into wins. Confidence is a wonderful thing, & with that I believe they weren't as far off as everyone seems to think. If Lundqvist was in goal they would arguably be a playoff team IMO. Yes laugh all you want. With a season under his belt, & a full pro offseason McD should be back with more meat on his bones & boost the team offence. Draisaitl the same.

Talbot was only a 'good' goalie behind the Rags D before they lost a few good players. I think he stays just that - a good backup.

Yes no one is thinking about what is in Pittsburgh's best interest.

A late 1st isn't worth it for a cup contending team to sacrifice important depth unless they have cap issues. Pittsburgh doesn't have cap issues. As you said a kunitz buyout is the worst case scenario to get cap compliant. And for a cup contender I'd rather have goalie insurance than kunitz and a late 1st. Goalie insurance saved our cup run this year. We have no reason to trade Fleury this offseason so we will want a proper return similar to Schneider, Kessel, jordan staal trades. Schneider being a high 1st. Kessel/Staal being a young former 1st round pick type prospect, a 1st, and B prospect. If no one pays that then you keep fleury.

And here's carey prices stats
2007–08 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 24 12 3 2413 103 3 2.56 .920
2008–09 Montreal Canadiens NHL 52 23 16 10 3036 143 1 2.83 .905
2009–10 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 13 20 5 2358 109 0 2.77 .912
2010–11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 38 28 6 4206 165 8 2.35 .923
2011–12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 26 28 11 3944 160 4 2.43 .916
2012–13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 39 21 13 4 2249 97 3 2.59 .905

Murray's save percentage has been much better at a similar age.

Yes no one is thinking about what is in Pittsburgh's best interest.

A late 1st isn't worth it for a cup contending team to sacrifice important depth unless they have cap issues. Pittsburgh doesn't have cap issues. As you said a kunitz buyout is the worst case scenario to get cap compliant. And for a cup contender I'd rather have goalie insurance than kunitz and a late 1st. Goalie insurance saved our cup run this year. We have no reason to trade Fleury this offseason so we will want a proper return similar to Schneider, Kessel, jordan staal trades. Schneider being a high 1st. Kessel/Staal being a young former 1st round pick type prospect, a 1st, and B prospect. If no one pays that then you keep fleury.

And here's carey prices stats
2007–08 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 24 12 3 2413 103 3 2.56 .920
2008–09 Montreal Canadiens NHL 52 23 16 10 3036 143 1 2.83 .905
2009–10 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 13 20 5 2358 109 0 2.77 .912
2010–11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 38 28 6 4206 165 8 2.35 .923
2011–12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 26 28 11 3944 160 4 2.43 .916
2012–13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 39 21 13 4 2249 97 3 2.59 .905

Murray's save percentage has been much better at a similar age.
- sditulli

I'm assuming you're responding to my post since you brought up the Kunitz buyout. Glad someone else is on board with J. Boyd and I about the elite goalie tandem >>> mediocre return.

Still small sample size in the nhl thought the ahl performance backs up his current performance.

13 regular season games .93%
7 playoff games .944

So he's tracking above anything price put up until he was much older.

Yes no one is thinking about what is in Pittsburgh's best interest.

A late 1st isn't worth it for a cup contending team to sacrifice important depth unless they have cap issues. Pittsburgh doesn't have cap issues. As you said a kunitz buyout is the worst case scenario to get cap compliant. And for a cup contender I'd rather have goalie insurance than kunitz and a late 1st. Goalie insurance saved our cup run this year. We have no reason to trade Fleury this offseason so we will want a proper return similar to Schneider, Kessel, jordan staal trades. Schneider being a high 1st. Kessel/Staal being a young former 1st round pick type prospect, a 1st, and B prospect. If no one pays that then you keep fleury.

And here's carey prices stats
2007–08 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 24 12 3 2413 103 3 2.56 .920
2008–09 Montreal Canadiens NHL 52 23 16 10 3036 143 1 2.83 .905
2009–10 Montreal Canadiens NHL 41 13 20 5 2358 109 0 2.77 .912
2010–11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 38 28 6 4206 165 8 2.35 .923
2011–12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 26 28 11 3944 160 4 2.43 .916
2012–13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 39 21 13 4 2249 97 3 2.59 .905

Murray's save percentage has been much better at a similar age.
- sditulli

OK, fine. He is probably going to be better than Price. You've got me. It can't have anything to do with Price playing full seasons on much worse teams.

Also, of course the Penguins benefit from having two strong goalies. They don't benefit from having to protect MAF instead of Murray in the expansion draft (if the rules on NMC/NTC end up how we've been projecting them). That's where all of this talk stems from. If Pitt has to protect Fleury and leave Murray available, they have to trade him. If not, I don't see why they would until they are in a cap situation.

OK, fine. He is probably going to be better than Price. You've got me. It can't have anything to do with Price playing full seasons on much worse teams.

Also, of course the Penguins benefit from having two strong goalies. They don't benefit from having to protect MAF instead of Murray in the expansion draft (if the rules on NMC/NTC end up how we've been projecting them). That's where all of this talk stems from. If Pitt has to protect Fleury and leave Murray available, they have to trade him. If not, I don't see why they would until they are in a cap situation.
- SolidGoldBricks

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...g-franchise-label-fleury/

This Sportsnet article seems imply that NMCs are always partial unless a player has a full NTC, and that partial NMCs are still exposed. That's the assumption we're running off of. If all NMCs are auto-protected then that changes everything.

OK, fine. He is probably going to be better than Price. You've got me. It can't have anything to do with Price playing full seasons on much worse teams.

Also, of course the Penguins benefit from having two strong goalies. They don't benefit from having to protect MAF instead of Murray in the expansion draft (if the rules on NMC/NTC end up how we've been projecting them). That's where all of this talk stems from. If Pitt has to protect Fleury and leave Murray available, they have to trade him. If not, I don't see why they would until they are in a cap situation.
- SolidGoldBricks

Everything indicate he won't have to be protected. Expansion draft is basically a trade. And guys with NTC are not protected.

So basically this offseason a fleury trades requires something >>> the value of having an elite goaltender tandem.

Next year a fleury trade requires >>>>> what we would lose instead of fleury in the expansion draft.

Expansion draft probably increases fleury's value because the expansion team will be one more team looking to add goalies.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/matt-murray-taking-franchise-label-fleury/

This Sportsnet article seems imply that NMCs are always partial unless a player has a full NTC, and that partial NMCs are still exposed. That's the assumption we're running off of. If all NMCs are auto-protected then that changes everything.
- Victoro311

Murray's contract expires at the end of next year. Couldn't they give him a new contract with a NMC to start the 2017-18 season and have both goalies be protected (if NMC's are auto protected).

anybody have a link for USA v Canada??? Thanks!

I don't know. Bernier is a pending UFA in 2017 and the expansion is probably next offseason. Assuming partial NMCs are exposed, like that article indicates, we'd lose either MAF or Bernier in the 2017. So the question becomes what's more valuable to this team? A late first and less than 2 mil in cap savings for one year, or an elite goalie tandem for one year? I'd rather have the tandem.
- Victoro311

In theory, a solid goalie tandem sounds great; in practice, often it doesn’t work out.

If the leafs take on MAF, bernier will need to be moved out. Can’t see bernier part of any other deal.

How about bernier $2.1M retained 1 year, MAF $700k retained 3 years. Leafs include Pens 1st and an ok prospect.

If you guys are asking for more than that, I wait to see if MAF requests a trade mid-season. Then his value drops to a bigger bargain.

Murray's contract expires at the end of next year. Couldn't they give him a new contract with a NMC to start the 2017-18 season and have both goalies be protected (if NMC's are auto protected).
- drummer829

doesn't work - you have to be in your ufa years to get a NMC/NTC.

doesn't work - you have to be in your ufa years to get a NMC/NTC.
- Tumbleweed

Gotcha, thanks

In theory, a solid goalie tandem sounds great; in practice, often it doesn’t work out.

If the leafs take on MAF, bernier will need to be moved out. Can’t see bernier part of any other deal.

How about bernier $2.1M retained 1 year, MAF $700k retained 3 years. Leafs include Pens 1st and an ok prospect.

If you guys are asking for more than that, I wait to see if MAF requests a trade mid-season. Then his value drops to a bigger bargain.
- Tumbleweed

The deal with no salary retention is better for the Pens. We're not in cap hell, so 2.1 extra mil next year isn't worth 700k over the next several.

It probably depends on the prospect, but TBH, I'm just not very interested in it. I doubt a mid season trade request happens. Flower knows if he's on the roster next season, he's all but ensured to be gone by the next offseason via expansion draft or trade. I think he has too many friends in the locker room to be super worried about expediting his departure.

Now if you wanna go for a bigger trade and make it Our first, Kapanen and Bernier for our 2nd and Flower, I'd be game. Would you have done a Flower, Harrington, and cap dump Spalling for Kessel at 1.2 retained, Bernier, and a swap of seconds?

Everything indicate he won't have to be protected. Expansion draft is basically a trade. And guys with NTC are not protected.
- sditulli

That is also the impression I'm getting. I think most of the proposals that are "low-balling" the Penguins, though, are under the assumption that they do need to unload Fleury. If they're trading him, and not under the gun, then I think they will get more from the right team.

That is also the impression I'm getting. I think most of the proposals that are "low-balling" the Penguins, though, are under the assumption that they do need to unload Fleury. If they're trading him, and not under the gun, then I think they will get more from the right team.
- SolidGoldBricks

Jordan Staal and Kessel were both trades under pressure. Toronto wanted to move on from Kessel and pittsburgh was the only option from what I can tell. The price was still basically 2 1st (though Pitt kicked in a 2nd) and a B prospect.

Jordan Staal was basically only Carolina. High 1st, young forward (former 11th pick), and B prospect.

Can't be much. At this point someone would pretty much be doing Pittsburgh a favour taking that ugly contract off their hands. At most I'd give up a 3rd rounder for MAF
- Ihatebrianburke

Are you crazy?

If Polak got two 2nds then MAF is worth two 1sts, min.

The deal with no salary retention is better for the Pens. We're not in cap hell, so 2.1 extra mil next year isn't worth 700k over the next several.

It probably depends on the prospect, but TBH, I'm just not very interested in it. I doubt a mid season trade request happens. Flower knows if he's on the roster next season, he's all but ensured to be gone by the next offseason via expansion draft or trade. I think he has too many friends in the locker room to be super worried about expediting his departure.

Now if you wanna go for a bigger trade and make it Our first, Kapanen and Bernier for our 2nd and Flower, I'd be game. Would you have done a Flower, Harrington, and cap dump Spalling for Kessel at 1.2 retained, Bernier, and a swap of seconds?
- Victoro311

Ding, Ding. we got a deal.

Ding, Ding. we got a deal.
- Tumbleweed

Did fans from opposing teams just agree on fare value for a mutually beneficial trade? Has this ever happened on hockeybuzz before?