Funny how actually watching a player, as opposed to looking at his data, can sway an opinion.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=73252

"Is this a good trade? Probably not."
"Trevor Daley is a terrible possession player."
"I don't think Daley is very good."
"All the great players on Dallas and Chicago and Daley's possession numbers still look like that. .."
"I wrote back on November 20th that the Penguins should stay away from Trevor Daley."
"If Pittsburgh can be disciplined enough to keep him away from big minutes he can serve as a functional member of the team."
"Trevor Daley in a bottom pairing sheltered role should be OK just don't give him too much responsibility."

Trevor Daley has played just fine since arriving in Pittsburgh. He'll never be Letang, but saying that he's "not very good" that is the Scuderi trade was not good, or that he can't play top-4 minutes is just wrong.

Yes, RW tries to snake out of it a bit by saying it won't work over the long haul, but this is just another one of RW's analytics fallacies.
- jmatchett383

He turned out to be better than advertised, we can deal. We like our blogger and we all make mistakes. It's OK.

The young guys and Sullivan. It seems like he is never happy, regardless how they play. No complacency in his attitude, which rubs off on the players.
- cap1681

I don't think it's that Sullivan is never happy. He's just only happy when they put in the work & follow the process, regardless of the outcome. A bad outcome with good work level & following the process is considered a fluke (and it is) in the same way that a good outcome when they don't put in the work or follow the process is seen as worse. I agree with this approach when you have a process that is shown to work.

He turned out to be better than advertised, we can deal. We like our blogger and we all make mistakes. It's OK.
- powerhouse

Looks like RWs bouncer has clocked in again...

Dude, it's ok too if folks here point out when RW is wrong or backtracks on something he said. This is what happens when somebody (RW) often writes on a personal level, and it's what blogs are all about... deal with it.

I like what RW writes most times, and he doesn't need a bouncer. And I happen to agree that analytics has never, nor can it ever capture the emotional swings of the great sport of ice hockey. Relax, enjoy the sport.

He turned out to be better than advertised, we can deal. We like our blogger and we all make mistakes. It's OK.
- powerhouse

I get that. I've been down or up on players and changed my tune.

But when you spend 90% of a blog bashing how bad a guy is, going so far as to say that the Scuderi trade was probably not a good trade (remember how much he hated Scuderi???) based SOLELY on his possession data, and then change your tune one you actually watch him play...just seems like maybe looking at a collection of raw data isn't the best way to judge a player.

I get that. I've been down or up on players and changed my tune.

But when you spend 90% of a blog bashing how bad a guy is, going so far as to say that the Scuderi trade was probably not a good trade (remember how much he hated Scuderi???) based SOLELY on his possession data, and then change your tune one you actually watch him play...just seems like maybe looking at a collection of raw data isn't the best way to judge a player.
- jmatchett383

hi friend

I get that. I've been down or up on players and changed my tune.

But when you spend 90% of a blog bashing how bad a guy is, going so far as to say that the Scuderi trade was probably not a good trade (remember how much he hated Scuderi???) based SOLELY on his possession data, and then change your tune one you actually watch him play...just seems like maybe looking at a collection of raw data isn't the best way to judge a player.
- jmatchett383

completely agree. I believe using raw data combined with watching the player is the correct way to evaluate a player.

hi friend
- stayinthefnnet

Hey there buuuuuuddy

Great win!
Brace yourselves the Fleury trade rumors are coming....

completely agree. I believe using raw data combined with watching the player is the correct way to evaluate a player.
- j.boyd919

Absolutely. I do give RW credit when manages to includes that Daley gives up as many shots as he generates while on the ice (although that statement is a bit flawed). But if you're giving up shots from the boards outside of the circles and you're generating them from the slot, that's a good trade off.

Hey there buuuuuuddy
- jmatchett383

how goes life outside of the hockey context?

Great win!
Brace yourselves the Fleury trade rumors are coming....
- ReginaPEN15

The Penguins are going to trade their backup/1B goalie in the midst of a playoff run????

how goes life outside of the hockey context?
- stayinthefnnet

Not too bad. Had the in-laws watch the little lady for the entire weekend (anniversary). Got laid, that was good. Otherwise, everything is pretty good. How about yourself?

Absolutely. I do give RW credit when manages to includes that Daley gives up as many shots as he generates while on the ice (although that statement is a bit flawed). But if you're giving up shots from the boards outside of the circles and you're generating them from the slot, that's a good trade off.
- jmatchett383

daley simply isnt good enough to play a 25 minutes against the good guys from the caps and have a positive shot differential. in a way it was certainly about damage control, and he more than lived up to the task.

sometimes its okay to just understand what guys are and enjoy them for that. getting him for scuderi was one of the main catalysts in the change of this team.

The Penguins are going to trade their backup/1B goalie in the midst of a playoff run????
- jmatchett383

Absolutely. I do give RW credit when manages to includes that Daley gives up as many shots as he generates while on the ice (although that statement is a bit flawed). But if you're giving up shots from the boards outside of the circles and you're generating them from the slot, that's a good trade off.
- jmatchett383

That's true, I tend to think that shot locations evens themselves out over a large sample size, depending on in-game adjustments, intermission adjustments, line matchups and stuff, which makes it tough to specify the kinds of shots he gives up, IMO.

He turned out to be better than advertised, we can deal. We like our blogger and we all make mistakes. It's OK.
- powerhouse

My oppinion of Daley wa Avery low when we acquired him but I was super high on the trade. I thought, in RW's words, that Daley was fools gold and even though he wasn't good he was just flashy enough to have value on the trade market where as Scuderi was essentially immovable and only a very special circumstances that were unlikely to happen got him off the roster. I thought we'd eventually flip a useless Daley for cap space. I was dead wrong...

completely agree. I believe using raw data combined with watching the player is the correct way to evaluate a player.
- j.boyd919

+1

Not too bad. Had the in-laws watch the little lady for the entire weekend (anniversary). Got laid, that was good. Otherwise, everything is pretty good. How about yourself?
- jmatchett383

hopefully you gave her more than the standard 2 minute drill. but glad to hear it man. happy and healthy is the way to be. i'm hanging in there. graduate from the bowels of law school in less than 2 weeks. finally.

Not too bad. Had the in-laws watch the little lady for the entire weekend (anniversary). Got laid, that was good. Otherwise, everything is pretty good. How about yourself?
- jmatchett383

A married man getting laid by his wife? Get out of here your lying.

That's true, I tend to think that shot locations evens themselves out over a large sample size, depending on in-game adjustments, intermission adjustments, line matchups and stuff, which makes it tough to specify the kinds of shots he gives up, IMO.
- j.boyd919

My good friend, I need to introduce you to the "scoring chance" analytics, the "high danger scoring chance" analytics, as well as the short-lived "shot distance" analytics.

I mean, come the (frank) on...just watch the (frank)ing guy play and see if he is a net positive or negative. It's not that (frank)ing hard.

A married man getting laid by his wife? Get out of here your lying.
- PittsPens

You obviously are not married. Are you familiar with the bed notches anecdote?

My good friend, I need to introduce you to the "scoring chance" analytics, the "high danger scoring chance" analytics, as well as the short-lived "shot distance" analytics.

I mean, come the (frank) on...just watch the (frank)ing guy play and see if he is a net positive or negative. It's not that (frank)ing hard.
- jmatchett383

yeah but i dont actually want to watch the game. i just want to play with a calculator.

just kidddding sort of statguys. they do have use. just like anything though. through context.

hopefully you gave her more than the standard 2 minute drill. but glad to hear it man. happy and healthy is the way to be. i'm hanging in there. graduate from the bowels of law school in less than 2 weeks. finally.
- stayinthefnnet

Two minutes? I'm not Super Man.

Glad to hear you're almost done. Have anything lined up? I'd like to sue a certain person on a certain site who has caused me immense mental anguish by constantly being wrong about my favorite team making trades.

You obviously are not married. Are you familiar with the bed notches anecdote?
- jmatchett383

i was under the impression that was for different women, not different rare occasions it actually occurs with the same one

yeah but i dont actually want to watch the game. i just want to play with a calculator.

just kidddding sort of statguys. they do have use. just like anything though. through context.
- stayinthefnnet

Yep. I have no issue with people using analytical data. It's a good tool. But like I said, when you use it as the sole basis on player evaluation...well, I'm sorry, but that's just wrong (Hi, Tanner).