Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
May 5 @ 4:38 PM ET
If he could be paired with a partner with his IQ level and anticipation, I think he has more magic left. His IQ is just off the charts good. He isn't just skill. A Provorov-Ghost pairing might be too much to handle in the future. - Mononoke
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 5 @ 5:01 PM ET
I wanted to see him play a game or two vs the Caps.
Just to crush Chimera.
Oh well, maybe next year. - Marc D
I hope he gives Chimera a shot to the kidneys like he did to Ghost. But he doesn't realize his own strength and impales him. And then just says, "Screw it!" and decapitates Tom Wilson.
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
May 5 @ 5:01 PM ET
I want to revisit a topic I find interesting but I know is going to make most of you mad and that's what Steven Stamkos is as a player and not what he could potentially sign for.
So many on this board have downplayed the talent level of Steven Stamkos as of late and their first mistake was (and always seems to be) comparing him to one of our own in Giroux and/Voracek. These people dive head first into corsi and stat sites and make arguments to support their argument when we all know that stats can be misleading.
Now we've all heard the arguments against Stamkos, I'm gonna make an argument for him.
We're all of the famous advice Scottie Bouwman gave Steve Yzerman when he first came to Detroit. Sacrifice points for the good of the team, which means playing defense and following the structure of the team. Well I think we all noticed that Stamkos was once a points machine once upon a time playing with Martin St Louis but the team was average. St Louis gets traded, Stamkos' production goes down but changes have been made since Yzerman has been in office and the Lightning are contenders.
Has anyone bothered to ask themselves why Martin St Louis wanted out so suddenly and now Stamkos? One could assume money. At the same time the Lightning under Yzerman is so balanced that they do not need Stamkos to be the complete and total focus of the team. Personally think if you let that kid lose the way Ovechkin has been allowed to his whole career, you'll see flashes of the old Stamkos.
Steve Yzerman has been strict when signing players to contracts and has complete control of the product on the ice. It's possible Stamkos could feel held back (injuries aside) and it's very possible this could end up being what he once was.
Of course I don't have the corsi to back any of these thoughts up. It's not all about points that gets you a deal, sometimes it's what you've done. Steven Stamkos has done a lot in his young career.
I want to revisit a topic I find interesting but I know is going to make most of you mad and that's what Steven Stamkos is as a player and not what he could potentially sign for.
So many on this board have downplayed the talent level of Steven Stamkos as of late and their first mistake was (and always seems to be) comparing him to one of our own in Giroux and/Voracek. These people dive head first into corsi and stat sites and make arguments to support their argument when we all know that stats can be misleading.
Now we've all heard the arguments against Stamkos, I'm gonna make an argument for him.
We're all of the famous advice Scottie Bouwman gave Steve Yzerman when he first came to Detroit. Sacrifice points for the good of the team, which means playing defense and following the structure of the team. Well I think we all noticed that Stamkos was once a points machine once upon a time playing with Martin St Louis but the team was average. St Louis gets traded, Stamkos' production goes down but changes have been made since Yzerman has been in office and the Lightning are contenders.
Has anyone bothered to ask themselves why Martin St Louis wanted out so suddenly and now Stamkos? One could assume money. At the same time the Lightning under Yzerman is so balanced that they do not need Stamkos to be the complete and total focus of the team. Personally think if you let that kid lose the way Ovechkin has been allowed to his whole career, you'll see flashes of the old Stamkos.
Steve Yzerman has been strict when signing players to contracts and has complete control of the product on the ice. It's possible Stamkos could feel held back (injuries aside) and it's very possible this could end up being what he once was.
Of course I don't have the corsi to back any of these thoughts up. It's not all about points that gets you a deal, sometimes it's what you've done. Steven Stamkos has done a lot in his young career. - SuperSchennBros
I'm of the opinion that he's not worth the $$ given where the Flyers are in their development cycle. I think the $$ can be better spent.
Who said anything about the Flyers? I think there is a belief that Stamkos isn't what he once was. I think this is debatable. - SuperSchennBros
Oh, sorry.
Could it be that the league "figured him out" and that's why his scoring is down? I mean, how many times do you need to see the one-timer from the circle before you think "huh, maybe I shouldn't let him do that"?
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 5 @ 5:28 PM ET
Hockeybuzz: topic purgatory. If we are going to rehash the same stuff a day later, I'm just copying and pasting everything I wrote yesterday........save y'all the trouble
------------------------------------
Stamkos breaks down for me as this: great player...not as great as the record setting contract he'd demand. This isn't 60 goal Stamkos. The fact that his points and possession stats have declined over a few seasons can't be glossed over by saying he's 26 and in his prime. Is he though? His team has been better than ever, and yet his stats have declined. A decline in league-wide scoring I take into account when I say that. His points have declined even adjusting for a league-wide decline. The last two seasons combined he places #21 in points per game. He's also #20 in shots taken. In ES points per 60, he is #48.
In the 3 seasons before his injury....he was #2 in p/pg. He had 134 goals to Ovi's 2nd place 102. He was #5 in shots taken. His ES p/60? #3 in the NHL. Even today he is an elite player and one of the best goal scorers in the league, but he is not one of the top 5 or even 10 forwards in the league...in terms of overall offense or 200 ft game. But he will be paid like he is.
Whether he used to be top 5 is irrelevant...his game has dropped off a bit now. As in now: when you're paying him the biggest contract in the NHL for the next 7 years. Is he even the best forward on the Lightning? Probably, but it's not even an unequivocal yes. A good number of the people who want to sign Stamkos probably question Jake's contract...when in the last two years they have the same number of points. Even in Jake's hellish season this year he would've finished (pro rated) with a whopping five less points than Stamkos. Now go add $3-4 million and you have Stamkos.
Yes, before his points decline, Stamkos had MSL. Which begs the question....if MSL was that important to his game where he dropped off rather significantly without him, is that the type of player you want to play $11-12 million for? Not for me it isn't. Again, Jake has the same exact points Stamkos does the last two seasons. Giroux is #12 to Stammer's #17 in the NHL. People rip their contracts, while wanting to fling another $3+ mil annually Stamkos's way. And Stamkos as the highest paid player in the league should not need "special" HoF linemates. He should be the special linemate. Not to mention he isn't playing with chopped liver in Tampa.
He has ZERO reason to come here, which is probably the funniest part. And that $11-12 million, even if you decide it's a good investment, will impede paying our current players and our prospects, who we all covet so much, down the line. It always does. And maybe a team like Toronto can afford that difference, because he's still awesome, but the Flyers should not bark up that tree. I'm confident they won't though.
Location: That matters less than you hope it does Joined: 07.20.2007
May 5 @ 5:51 PM ET
Hi Bill!
In the previous thread, there was some discussion this morning about Winnipeg possibly being willing to move Trouba. With that in mind, would you make the following trade:
To Philly: Trouba
To Wpg: 2016 1st, 2016 2nd (originally Chicago's pick), Laughton and Hagg. - BiggE
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
May 5 @ 5:54 PM ET
Oh, sorry.
Could it be that the league "figured him out" and that's why his scoring is down? I mean, how many times do you need to see the one-timer from the circle before you think "huh, maybe I shouldn't let him do that"? - Scoob
If scoring 36 goals is some sort of negative, then you are correct.
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
May 5 @ 5:56 PM ET
Hockeybuzz: topic purgatory. If we are going to rehash the same stuff a day later, I'm just copying and pasting everything I wrote yesterday........save y'all the trouble
------------------------------------
Stamkos breaks down for me as this: great player...not as great as the record setting contract he'd demand. This isn't 60 goal Stamkos. The fact that his points and possession stats have declined over a few seasons can't be glossed over by saying he's 26 and in his prime. Is he though? His team has been better than ever, and yet his stats have declined. A decline in league-wide scoring I take into account when I say that. His points have declined even adjusting for a league-wide decline. The last two seasons combined he places #21 in points per game. He's also #20 in shots taken. In ES points per 60, he is #48.
In the 3 seasons before his injury....he was #2 in p/pg. He had 134 goals to Ovi's 2nd place 102. He was #5 in shots taken. His ES p/60? #3 in the NHL. Even today he is an elite player and one of the best goal scorers in the league, but he is not one of the top 5 or even 10 forwards in the league...in terms of overall offense or 200 ft game. But he will be paid like he is.
Whether he used to be top 5 is irrelevant...his game has dropped off a bit now. As in now: when you're paying him the biggest contract in the NHL for the next 7 years. Is he even the best forward on the Lightning? Probably, but it's not even an unequivocal yes. A good number of the people who want to sign Stamkos probably question Jake's contract...when in the last two years they have the same number of points. Even in Jake's hellish season this year he would've finished (pro rated) with a whopping five less points than Stamkos. Now go add $3-4 million and you have Stamkos.
Yes, before his points decline, Stamkos had MSL. Which begs the question....if MSL was that important to his game where he dropped off rather significantly without him, is that the type of player you want to play $11-12 million for? Not for me it isn't. Again, Jake has the same exact points Stamkos does the last two seasons. Giroux is #12 to Stammer's #17 in the NHL. People rip their contracts, while wanting to fling another $3+ mil annually Stamkos's way. And Stamkos as the highest paid player in the league should not need "special" HoF linemates. He should be the special linemate. Not to mention he isn't playing with chopped liver in Tampa.
He has ZERO reason to come here, which is probably the funniest part. And that $11-12 million, even if you decide it's a good investment, will impede paying our current players and our prospects, who we all covet so much, down the line. It always does. And maybe a team like Toronto can afford that difference, because he's still awesome, but the Flyers should not bark up that tree. I'm confident they won't though. - Mononoke
Boy this topic eats at you, eh?
I read the blog, it doesn't mean I cannot have thoughts and opinions of my own.
Steve Yzerman runs the Tampa Bay lightning. I'm pretty sure he hasn't thrown outvthe window championship winning advice from one of history's Great Coaches in this league.
If scoring 36 goals is some sort of negative, then you are correct. - SuperSchennBros
I didn't say negative. I was asking if that was a possibility for why his scoring is down. 36 goals is fine, but it's well below his career average/game. Last year was below his career average, too. You think the coach/management has throttled him. I offered another possibility. :shrug:
Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
May 5 @ 6:09 PM ET
No, my stance is to keep building......that trade offer would probably get you laughed at or told keep adding to it before they'd accept. - ob18
I'm just having fun with you.
I think Trouba for Hamonic may happen though.
I can't see Hexy veering off his course of drafting and developing from within.
Schultz and Streit as painful as they may be to watch another season buys him time for the guys to develop. I do hope he picks up a guy or two as free agents this summer to upgrade where possible, but doubt it's going to be one of the "A" list UFAs we hear about from the beat writers.
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 5 @ 6:11 PM ET
Boy this topic eats at you, eh?
I read the blog, it doesn't mean I cannot have thoughts and opinions of my own.
Steve Yzerman runs the Tampa Bay lightning. I'm pretty sure he hasn't thrown outvthe window championship winning advice from one of history's Great Coaches in this league. - SuperSchennBros
Dude...you just typed a novel of a post post 20 hours after we had this same discussion. You posted your Atlas Shrugged of a post completely without any prompting. Had the word "Stamkos" been mentioned anywhere? This topic eats at you. I just copy and pasted mine from 5 seperate posts from yesterday.
You can have your own thoughts, but if you're going to post a novel not long after dismissing or completely ignoring everything I wrote answering your novel, and then ignore them again, expect some annoyance.
