Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
May 4 @ 9:03 PM ET
What hardware does he have? A Rocket Richard from 4 years ago? I think Giroux is a better all around player...I think Stamkos is a better goal scorer. In the grand scheme of things? They're pretty equal. I personally give the edge to G, but it's very close. But one is going to make $3-4 million than the other. That's important.
And, yes, Stamkos had MSL. Which begs the question....if MSL was that important to his game where he dropped off rather significantly without him, is that the type of player you want to play $11-12 million for? Not for me it isn't. Again, Jake has the same exact points Stamkos does the last two seasons. Giroux is #12 to Stammer's #17. Read my other post again if you want...everything is in there, and I don't feel like repeating myself. - Mononoke
I think Jake looks awful without G. Take Ov out of the league and I think Stamkos contends for the Rocket Richard every season regardless of his linemates. Put someone special on a line with Stamkos and I think his point totals get even better. Stamkos is also a year younger then G.
What hardware does he have? A Rocket Richard from 4 years ago? I think Giroux is a better all around player...I think Stamkos is a better goal scorer. In the grand scheme of things? They're pretty equal. I personally give the edge to G, but it's very close. But one is going to make $3-4 million than the other. That's important.
And, yes, Stamkos had MSL. Which begs the question....if MSL was that important to his game where he dropped off rather significantly without him, is that the type of player you want to play $11-12 million for? Not for me it isn't. Again, Jake has the same exact points Stamkos does the last two seasons. Giroux is #12 to Stammer's #17. Read my other post again if you want...everything is in there, and I don't feel like repeating myself. - Mononoke
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 4 @ 9:07 PM ET
I'm trying to do the stats thing.
I saw his CF% was about 48%. So his team was controlling the puck a little less often than not. But the majority of the time he started in the dzone (55%). Maybe that has something to do with it? I'd imagine 48% is average though, and even so- the Flyers were brutal before he got hurt, so who knows. That might have been one of the higher ones on the team at the time.
I'm sure there's other good stuff to look at. What would those be? What website do you use? I just went on hockey-reference.
What do you think about this? Serious question. Not trying to be a Richard. - Giroux_Is_God
When he was on the ice (this is score and zone adjusted fyi), his CF% was 50.9. When he was off the ice, the team had a CF% of 47.2. He was neck and neck with Medvedev (behind Gudas) for second best CF% relative to his team, among the d corps . He had the highest d zone start % behind Schultz. He faced the toughest competition on the team behind Schultz...I believe when they were both healthy, he saw the toughest. He also had an absurdly low PDO...which sums up save percentage and shot % on-ice to measure degree of luck. That's why his raw numbers were a bit undewhelming. He was also the best shot suppression d man on the PK.
He just did yeoman's work. He was used like a #1 and came out clean doing it...ideally he's not, but if he can do that in those minutes, if he can be a #2/3 or something, he could be a nice long term piece. Many of those minutes were with Gudas, which definitely helps inflate your advanced stats, but he did well without him relative to his team too. And when they were apart, MDZ was still facing top competition and Gudas wasn't. So I don't think that argument is too too valid.
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 4 @ 9:11 PM ET
You pretty much summed it up right there. - Tomahawk
This too. It's why WoWY (With/Without) can be incredibly deceiving. AMac and Ghost had a better CF% together than MDZ and Ghost I believe. Except MDZ and Ghost did ~2% better than the rest of the team together. Yet, AMac and Ghost did ~8% worse. Context.
# you want to look at is CF% Rel.... tells how well a guy did relative to rest of team in the games that he played in. MDZ was a very solid +~3-4%. - Tomahawk
CF% Rel is an awful stat in my opinion. Compare players, playing in different situations, with different teammates, against different players, and endless different variables, in the game of hockey. It's a useless stat in my opinion.
CF% Rel is an awful stat in my opinion. Compare players, playing in different situations, with different teammates, against different players, and endless different variables, in the game of hockey. It's a useless stat in my opinion. - MJL
Maybe it'd be useful to factor in strength of opponents?
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 4 @ 9:18 PM ET
I think Jake looks awful without G. Take Ov out of the league and I think Stamkos contends for the Rocket Richard every season regardless of his linemates. Put someone special on a line with Stamkos and I think his point totals get even better. Stamkos is also a year younger then G. - SuperSchennBros
Not trying to be flippant SSB, but you may think these things, but it doesn't make them true. Jake does not look awful without Giroux. Stamkos's goals are completely independent of Ovi's, and Stamkos as the highest paid player in the league should not need "special" linemates. He should be the special linemate. Not to mention he isn't playing with chopped liver in Tampa. Again, all my points are in my other posts.
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 4 @ 9:31 PM ET
He had a very Coburn-esque season - Tomahawk
Maybe a touch worse defensively, a touch better offensively. It's an apt comparison. Hjammer in Chicago is the same way (though he was with Keith a lot this year). His advanced stats are usually respectable at face value, but the minutes he logs and the ability to free up his teammates don't do them justice.
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest! Joined: 07.19.2015
May 4 @ 9:36 PM ET
Lucas Johansen - ob18
I only saw him at the top prospects game (and frankly I wasn't paying attention to him), but a lot of people seem to be raving about him as a hidden gem. Maybe he even finds his way into the late first or very early second. I said this the other day: I think this could be one of those drafts where the top d men aren't the top d men in a handful of years. There's a lot of late first/second guys that could be absolute steals, and I'm a bit down on a few of the top guys personally.
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
May 4 @ 9:37 PM ET
Not trying to be flippant SSB, but you may think these things, but it doesn't make them true. Jake does not look awful without Giroux. Stamkos's goals are completely independent of Ovi's, and Stamkos as the highest paid player in the league should not need "special" linemates. He should be the special linemate. Not to mention he isn't playing with chopped liver in Tampa. Again, all my points are in my other posts. - Mononoke
Keith Tkachuk was once the highest paid player while Jagr was undeniably the best once upon a time. Whatever teams choose to pay Stamkos is to their discretion. I don't think Kake is worth his price tag. He's an all steak but no sisle type of player to me. Jake to me needs the goal scoring to add to everything else he's pretty awesome at.
I agree that Stamkos shouldn't be the highest paid player but he deserves as much if not more than G and Jake.
