Looks like the Caps are doing it again...

...it's just a shame the Pens are the benefactors.
- ArlingtonRob

The Pens have played well, but have been helped by the Caps poor shooting. Washington is flinging pucks everywhere except into the net. It's not over yet.

The Pens have played well, but have been helped by the Caps poor shooting. Washington is flinging pucks everywhere except into the net. It's not over yet.
- etchtech

Caps are toast .And Daily is playing in the east ,much softer offence 1st type play , he would have never maid it through a year in the west .And he new it , and bailed ..

Other than the diving Crosby and Letang's non-sense (though he reminds me a lot of Keith for "cleanliness" the Pens have a likable team. Players like Hornqvizt, Sheary, Doumalin, Hagelin are players that are easy to root for.
- kwolf68

I don't have a problem with most of the players as individuals...

...I just can't pull for the laundry. Wear that sweater and I want ya to lose.

Same goes for the Stars...I don't give a c@#p if Sharp, Oduya and Niemi play for 'em. It's been a long time, but go Blues.

I wonder how the Hawks offseason would be looking if Daley were still on the team. There would be an additional $2.175 on the books after factoring in the retained salary for Scuderi. Now we question if Shaw could be retained. If we had Daley we'd be discussing losing Shaw and Kruger.
- DarthKane

So the Hawks move Sharp and Johns to get out of cap hell for a guy (Daley) who puts them less in cap hell so they do this knowing they have to move him (Daley) as well to get out of the lesser of cap hell for a guy in Scuderi who puts them in even less cap hell? Or you worry about cap hell after the season celebrating another cup or very deep run?

As far as Daley don't look at what he's doing with PITT. He came with 800+ NHL games played, a + player in 12-13 years of skating 1st or 2nd rotation minutes. All of a sudden he stinks, a 14 minute a night guy for a team desperate for #'s 4-5-6 Dmen? ...... I said it when he was moved Daley IS what the hawks thought he was, NOTHING different. In fact he had a 54% corsi with the Hawks IIRC.. Said when the trade was made he fits the Hawks like a glove. Said when they moved him I like him yesterday, today and will tomorrow.

Finally anyone notice in Game 1 how Eddie gushed over Daley. Eddie's way of saying, without saying it, Q missed the boat on this one.

Looks like the Caps are doing it again...

...it's just a shame the Pens are the benefactors.
- ArlingtonRob

No surprise with a Barry Trotz coached team, maybe the most overrated coach in the NHL. Has always had a Vezina candidate goalie but his teams never win in the playoffs.

So the Hawks move Sharp and Johns to get out of cap hell for a guy (Daley) who puts them less in cap hell so they do this knowing they have to move him (Daley) as well to get out of the lesser of cap hell for a guy in Scuderi who puts them in even less cap hell? Or you worry about cap hell after the season celebrating another cup or very deep run?

As far as Daley don't look at what he's doing with PITT. He came with 800+ NHL games played, a + player in 12-13 years of skating 1st or 2nd rotation minutes. All of a sudden he stinks, a 14 minute a night guy for a team desperate for #'s 4-5-6 Dmen? ...... I said it when he was moved Daley IS what the hawks thought he was, NOTHING different. In fact he had a 54% corsi with the Hawks IIRC.. Said when the trade was made he fits the Hawks like a glove. Said when they moved him I like him yesterday, today and will tomorrow.

Finally anyone notice in Game 1 how Eddie gushed over Daley. Eddie's way of saying, without saying it, Q missed the boat on this one.
- Mr Ricochet

Go back to last summer lets say at the draft, make two moves;

1. Buy out Bickell
2. Trade Sharp for a 7th round pick

Now set your lineup from that point for last year and the future. It will piss you off.

I refuse to believe that the power play's competence this year is a result of it being Q's. That's the hill I'm willing to die on.
- darklighter

Haha! Given the rough translation of Panarin's kindergarten English, the Super PAK line was just ignoring Q and improvising the whole year anyway. I think that's the Power Play, too... ignored Q's system but improvised their way to the playoffs.

Other than the diving Crosby and Letang's non-sense (though he reminds me a lot of Keith for "cleanliness" the Pens have a likable team. Players like Hornqvizt, Sheary, Doumalin, Hagelin are players that are easy to root for.
- kwolf68

What Bettman did with the draft lottery will never have me liking the Pens. F all of them and Mario too.

Hey DarthKane - this ones for you!! Pretty fun too if you're a Star Wars fan!
http://www.secondcityhock...er-fun-2016-nhl-offseason

Anyone itching for cross-town World Series this year?

In the Champions League of Europe, there will be a cross-town final between Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid. Turns it out it was the same final, two years ago.

Then I got to thinking about European footballing dynasties, and check out this list of Champions League finals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...A_Champions_League_finals

Since AC Milan repeated in 1989 and 1990, there hasn't been a repeat winner. The closest thing was a few teams getting to back-to-back finals. And the modern dynasty is Barcelona, who won in 2006, 2009, 2011, and 2015. They're like the San Antonio Spurs of the NBA.

And I think the Hawks are the equivalent of these dynasties for the modern NHL. The chances of repeating after the 4 taxing rounds of the playoffs and a short summer... slim to none.

In the past, I have not agreed with you on this point, I now believe I was wrong. Hard to believe the #5 on the team now is better than Trevor Daley.

I know Q has the second most wins and 3 rings, I still believe he F'd up this season from the beginning.

Lineup for the playoffs should have been; (edited as I would have kept Danault)

Panik - Toews - Kane
Panarin - AA - TT
Ladd - Danault - Hossa
Shaw - Krug - Garbutt/Desi

Keith - Seabrook
Hammer - TVR
Daley - Rosi/Gus/Sved/Erhoff

I believe if that's the lineup on the ice, we are still playing. I've never understood Qs BS player management all year.
- vabeachbear

Bear, just like me in the past accepting that Q is a PRETTY GOOD (notice I didn't say great) coach, this year was enough to send me back over the edge. If we ice your lineup above, I agree, we're still playing for the CUP.

I guess now it's pretty obvious (I read all the comments since I posted that last night and then shut down my laptop to watch the rest of the Pens game), Q isn't some magical genius. I'm guessing a coin flip on some of the decisions he's made might have come out with the same results, now 3 Cups in 7 years.

I'll just remind everyone he's had a stacked lineup. Although like ArlRob, I really dislike the Pens because of Crosby, I have found myself rooting for them. Maybe because there's a number of young guys there that have stepped up and really have found an ability to compete that I didn't think they had as a team and they are doing it with a goalie with little NHL experience.

Hopefully more of us can see that players have been launched from this team because of Q and only Q. And players have been kept on too long because of Q and only Q and those 2 things have been both the reasons we've won AND LOST.

Q's love for Brunette, for Handzus, for Rozy and his unassailable trust for some players (TVR and TT) while others got the paddle/pressbox/ignored/mind-(frank)ed (this is a LONNNNNNGGGGGGG list of guys that have caught Q's ire) is what throws me off the edge as well. Very hard as a player to try to do what you're asked when you know any mistake is going to get you catching pine. And then watch others allowed to make mistakes, learn AND continue playing.

The other thing I'll remind folks of is the Trevor Daley hip surgery. No one recovers from that quickly and once again, Q's lack of patience for whatever reason with certain players is what does the team in. Yet the guy is unwilling to cut bait on #5 who clearly would be better suited for men's league at Johnny's.

I'm loving watching Sullivan steer his crew closer to the ECF and watching Daley succeed. I doubt he's thinking of it at the moment but I'm sure in the back of his mind he's got a big middle finger up to Q.

IMO, there is no way we should have gone out in the 1st round and if the FO doesn't think this isn't a huge fail on Q, they are missing something. All coaches have a shelf life no matter who or where. I happen to think Q's time is drawing to a close here and highly doubt there will be another renewal past this one.

Bear, just like me in the past accepting that Q is a PRETTY GOOD (notice I didn't say great) coach, this year was enough to send me back over the edge. If we ice your lineup above, I agree, we're still playing for the CUP.

I guess now it's pretty obvious (I read all the comments since I posted that last night and then shut down my laptop to watch the rest of the Pens game), Q isn't some magical genius. I'm guessing a coin flip on some of the decisions he's made might have come out with the same results, now 3 Cups in 7 years.

I'll just remind everyone he's had a stacked lineup. Although like ArlRob, I really dislike the Pens because of Crosby, I have found myself rooting for them. Maybe because there's a number of young guys there that have stepped up and really have found an ability to compete that I didn't think they had as a team and they are doing it with a goalie with little NHL experience.

Hopefully more of us can see that players have been launched from this team because of Q and only Q. And players have been kept on too long because of Q and only Q and those 2 things have been both the reasons we've won AND LOST.

Q's love for Brunette, for Handzus, for Rozy and his unassailable trust for some players (TVR and TT) while others got the paddle/pressbox/ignored/mind-(frank)ed (this is a LONNNNNNGGGGGGG list of guys that have caught Q's ire) is what throws me off the edge as well. Very hard as a player to try to do what you're asked when you know any mistake is going to get you catching pine. And then watch others allowed to make mistakes, learn AND continue playing.

The other thing I'll remind folks of is the Trevor Daley hip surgery. No one recovers from that quickly and once again, Q's lack of patience for whatever reason with certain players is what does the team in. Yet the guy is unwilling to cut bait on #5 who clearly would be better suited for men's league at Johnny's.

I'm loving watching Sullivan steer his crew closer to the ECF and watching Daley succeed. I doubt he's thinking of it at the moment but I'm sure in the back of his mind he's got a big middle finger up to Q.

IMO, there is no way we should have gone out in the 1st round and if the FO doesn't think this isn't a huge fail on Q, they are missing something. All coaches have a shelf life no matter who or where. I happen to think Q's time is drawing to a close here and highly doubt there will be another renewal past this one.
- savvyone-1

My personal feeling was Q mishandled Daley. I think it was a big problem and hurt the team this year. Because as I said over and over again to the crowd that kept saying "Daley sucks," the guy had a pretty decent track record as an NHL player, versus, say TVR, who didn't. Some of the same posters were here in the playoffs making excuses for TVR because he "only has 80 NHL games." Well, you don't get to have it both ways, guys.

I also think Q is a great coach.

But his stubbornness and willingness to make pretty worthy assets the scapegoat needs to stop because this team does not have the luxury of wasting them.

A good player and a good prospect were traded for Daley. The alternatives to Daley were Svedberg, Rundblad and Gustafsson, and TVR in a role and getting TOI that probably don't suit him well.

Sorry, TVR "can" play the left side, but quite honestly, Daley wasn't that bad at his worst in Chicago, playing his natural left side. The narrative definitely took over. Daley was actually playing better before he was dealt.

Again, I'm not equating Trevor Daley to Bobby Orr. But there seems to have been more to work with there, had Q and the staff been willing, than what was left after he was traded. THAT is the real problem, and one that can't be repeated.

It's the same issue then with Q. He seems to be at odds with Bowman and willing to cut his nose off to spite his face sometimes. But how many as good or better coaches are out there to replace him? Damn few.

And Daley WAS still not 100% recovered from the hip, at least just prior to camp and the Hawks knew it. There WAS some concern whether he'd be ready.

Hah. I know it.

It's very obvious Daley can play and he actually has a lot more toughness than most credit him for.

The trade that surrounded him was an epic disaster.
- kwolf68

Yeah, both of them

I will also say this, for years, some hawk fans have always been willing to anoint some 170 pound kid Stanley discovered in Slovakistan or at the University of Southern Palatine, who has never played pro or even on North American ice, a great player—versus someone who has played well in the NHL, albeit outside Chicago.

It is incredibly myopic and ignorant. And it does create false narratives.

My personal feeling was Q mishandled Daley. I think it was a big problem and hurt the team this year. Because as I said over and over again to the crowd that kept saying "Daley sucks," the guy had a pretty decent track record as an NHL player, versus, say TVR, who didn't. Some of the same posters were here in the playoffs making excuses for TVR because he "only has 80 NHL games." Well, you don't get to have it both ways, guys.

I also think Q is a great coach.

But his stubbornness and willingness to make pretty worthy assets the scapegoat needs to stop because this team does not have the luxury of wasting them.

A good player and a good prospect were traded for Daley. The alternatives to Daley were Svedberg, Rundblad and Gustafsson, and TVR in a role and getting TOI that probably don't suit him well.

Sorry, TVR "can" play the left side, but quite honestly, Daley wasn't that bad at his worst in Chicago, playing his natural left side. The narrative definitely took over. Daley was actually playing better before he was dealt.

Again, I'm not equating Trevor Daley to Bobby Orr. But there seems to have been more to work with there, had Q and the staff been willing, than what was left after he was traded. THAT is the real problem, and one that can't be repeated.

It's the same issue then with Q. He seems to be at odds with Bowman and willing to cut his nose off to spite his face sometimes. But how many as good or better coaches are out there to replace him? Damn few.

And Daley WAS still not 100% recovered from the hip, at least just prior to camp and the Hawks knew it. There WAS some concern whether he'd be ready.
- John Jaeckel

The one that still bothers me is Sekac.
He had size and speed for days. Was never given a shot
And the big thing, he was cheap. Sure he had some rough spots and needed a little coaching, but, I think with the veterans on this team, he could have gotten there.
Another big miss from Q

Bear, just like me in the past accepting that Q is a PRETTY GOOD (notice I didn't say great) coach, this year was enough to send me back over the edge. If we ice your lineup above, I agree, we're still playing for the CUP.

I guess now it's pretty obvious (I read all the comments since I posted that last night and then shut down my laptop to watch the rest of the Pens game), Q isn't some magical genius. I'm guessing a coin flip on some of the decisions he's made might have come out with the same results, now 3 Cups in 7 years.

I'll just remind everyone he's had a stacked lineup. Although like ArlRob, I really dislike the Pens because of Crosby, I have found myself rooting for them. Maybe because there's a number of young guys there that have stepped up and really have found an ability to compete that I didn't think they had as a team and they are doing it with a goalie with little NHL experience.

Hopefully more of us can see that players have been launched from this team because of Q and only Q. And players have been kept on too long because of Q and only Q and those 2 things have been both the reasons we've won AND LOST.

Q's love for Brunette, for Handzus, for Rozy and his unassailable trust for some players (TVR and TT) while others got the paddle/pressbox/ignored/mind-(frank)ed (this is a LONNNNNNGGGGGGG list of guys that have caught Q's ire) is what throws me off the edge as well. Very hard as a player to try to do what you're asked when you know any mistake is going to get you catching pine. And then watch others allowed to make mistakes, learn AND continue playing.

The other thing I'll remind folks of is the Trevor Daley hip surgery. No one recovers from that quickly and once again, Q's lack of patience for whatever reason with certain players is what does the team in. Yet the guy is unwilling to cut bait on #5 who clearly would be better suited for men's league at Johnny's.

I'm loving watching Sullivan steer his crew closer to the ECF and watching Daley succeed. I doubt he's thinking of it at the moment but I'm sure in the back of his mind he's got a big middle finger up to Q.

IMO, there is no way we should have gone out in the 1st round and if the FO doesn't think this isn't a huge fail on Q, they are missing something. All coaches have a shelf life no matter who or where. I happen to think Q's time is drawing to a close here and highly doubt there will be another renewal past this one.
- savvyone-1

I'd like to hear from someone in the room say that Q has lost it - that PAK ignored Q's instructions (not the same as saying they mostly improvised - two of the best improvisers in the league, I would expect that).

I'd like to hear from Toews why he didn't score a goal against St. Louis - or, IIRC, against TB last year - why he only had 11 goals 5x5 all year.

I'd like to hear from Kane why he had only 1 goal against St. Louis.

A number of assists from those two - but $26MM + should net more than once.

Can Seabrook and Keith tell why they turned the puck over so much? Too many minutes because no defensive depth? Ok...stars play better.

Q's fault? Bowman's? Yeah, they come in for their share of the blame - lineup screwups, no real 4/5 defenseman - but to read most stuff here, everything is on Q.

Time to throw some blame on some of those with cold steel on the bottoms of their boots - the money wasn't earned.

I don't have a problem with most of the players as individuals...

...I just can't pull for the laundry. Wear that sweater and I want ya to lose.

Same goes for the Stars...I don't give a c@#p if Sharp, Oduya and Niemi play for 'em. It's been a long time, but go Blues.
- ArlingtonRob

ZOINKS.....

I'd like to hear from someone in the room say that Q has lost it - that PAK ignored Q's instructions (not the same as saying they mostly improvised - two of the best improvisers in the league, I would expect that).

I'd like to hear from Toews why he didn't score a goal against St. Louis - or, IIRC, against TB last year - why he only had 11 goals 5x5 all year.

I'd like to hear from Kane why he had only 1 goal against St. Louis.

A number of assists from those two - but $26MM + should net more than once.

Can Seabrook and Keith tell why they turned the puck over so much? Too many minutes because no defensive depth? Ok...stars play better.

Q's fault? Bowman's? Yeah, they come in for their share of the blame - lineup screwups, no real 4/5 defenseman - but to read most stuff here, everything is on Q.

Time to throw some blame on some of those with cold steel on the bottoms of their boots - the money wasn't earned.
- StLBravesFan

because sometimes the game of NHL playoffs just sucks..and it doesn't care what your paycheck is....ask stamkos last year vs the hawks = a big goose egg, ask getzlaf and perry combined for 2 goals vs the preds both by getzlaf, ask ovie 1 goal in 4 games vs pens....on and on it goes...

kane had some great chances at least 5 i can recall...and elliot got em....

i just don't by this false narrative that your paycheck means a certain level of goals or points every series or per game...sometimes they dont go in and the other guys were better

look at toews and kanes production over the long haul in the playoffs and consider all the big goals they have had a roll in via assists or finish...

I'd like to hear from someone in the room say that Q has lost it - that PAK ignored Q's instructions (not the same as saying they mostly improvised - two of the best improvisers in the league, I would expect that).

I'd like to hear from Toews why he didn't score a goal against St. Louis - or, IIRC, against TB last year - why he only had 11 goals 5x5 all year.

I'd like to hear from Kane why he had only 1 goal against St. Louis.

A number of assists from those two - but $26MM + should net more than once.

Can Seabrook and Keith tell why they turned the puck over so much? Too many minutes because no defensive depth? Ok...stars play better.

Q's fault? Bowman's? Yeah, they come in for their share of the blame - lineup screwups, no real 4/5 defenseman - but to read most stuff here, everything is on Q.

Time to throw some blame on some of those with cold steel on the bottoms of their boots - the money wasn't earned.
- StLBravesFan

Sage, I cannot disagree that the ultimate blame has to be placed on those on the ice wearing the Indianhead sweater. And surely we can place blame on the guys making the most coin. I think this much is obvious to virtually every observer, fan or not.

However, from my puny little mind and from my own limited experience (getting so far as Jr A level before scrapping whatever notion I might have had of going further), things like what I and others posted about Q do have a great effect on ALL the players and their performance.

Don't for a moment think that Toews or Kane or Hossa or any with the Cups and experience cannot tell the difference between someone with ability/skill/heart. I've personally seen guys "fold up their tent" and simply not put forth the effort they were capable of because the guy behind the bench calling the shots on who plays, where and when were clearly at odds with what they knew would help/hurt the team.

I don't for a moment know or have any idea of what 19/88/81/2/4/7 might have been thinking and how that might have affected their play on the ice. I can only surmise from my own experience and assume based on human nature and human tendencies what might be going through their minds and what impact it might have.

If we, the unwashed here on the sidelines, can clearly see that Q did NOT ice the best possible lineup until game 5, don't think for a moment the guys in the room didn't see that or know that going in.

Similarly, to cast off a guy with 10 years of experience because he didn't fit when he brought the very attributes the team says they wanted/needed, it also sends a bad message. Daley said only good things about the leadership and guys in the room. Which only leaves me to think it was the staff that was a problem.

Q won't be fired this coming year. But I do expect this club to be a bubble team and if they make the playoffs, a 1st round out again next year. That may change the momentum of things behind the bench, Cups or not. We've now seen another guy (Sullivan) look pretty good behind the bench since he's taken over. Torchetti did a very good job with a Wild club that was missing some key elements. 2 guys that were in the Hawks system. Q is NOT the only evil genius in the world, it may simply be like other HC's, their expiration date eventually comes up on the register and teams need to move on from their particular games they play. Time will tell.

because sometimes the game of NHL playoffs just sucks..and it doesn't care what your paycheck is....ask stamkos last year vs the hawks = a big goose egg, ask getzlaf and perry combined for 2 goals vs the preds both by getzlaf, ask ovie 1 goal in 4 games vs pens....on and on it goes...

kane had some great chances at least 5 i can recall...and elliot got em....

i just don't by this false narrative that your paycheck means a certain level of goals or points every series or per game...sometimes they dont go in and the other guys were better

look at toews and kanes production over the long haul in the playoffs and consider all the big goals they have had a roll in via assists or finish...
- bogiedoc

But that's not the style here: you'd think 3 Cups would give Q some credit for being a good coach - not exempt from criticism, but not subject to abuse - which is what many here are piling on.

My point was he did not have a good series - but neither did any skater except Shaw - not one except Shaw outplayed what would be his counterpart on the Blues, INCLUDING Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford.

Great chances don't count - finishing does; underlying stats don't matter - only goals for/against and wins/losses.

I will also say this, for years, some hawk fans have always been willing to anoint some 170 pound kid Stanley discovered in Slovakistan or at the University of Southern Palatine, who has never played pro or even on North American ice, a great player—versus someone who has played well in the NHL, albeit outside Chicago.

It is incredibly myopic and ignorant. And it does create false narratives.
- John Jaeckel

I prefer the University of South West River Grove State.

I will also say this, for years, some hawk fans have always been willing to anoint some 170 pound kid Stanley discovered in Slovakistan or at the University of Southern Palatine, who has never played pro or even on North American ice, a great player—versus someone who has played well in the NHL, albeit outside Chicago

It is incredibly myopic and ignorant. And it does create false narratives.
- John Jaeckel

University of southern Palatine would be Harper College right?

Don't for a moment think that Toews or Kane or Hossa or any with the Cups and experience cannot tell the difference between someone with ability/skill/heart. I've personally seen guys "fold up their tent" and simply not put forth the effort they were capable of because the guy behind the bench calling the shots on who plays, where and when were clearly at odds with what they knew would help/hurt the team.

I don't for a moment know or have any idea of what 19/88/81/2/4/7 might have been thinking and how that might have affected their play on the ice. I can only surmise from my own experience and assume based on human nature and human tendencies what might be going through their minds and what impact it might have.

- savvyone-1

Sharp looked around the room after the first 10 games of 2013 and realized how special the group was -- it was just the right mix of high-end talent with experience and younger talent with heart and desire. He knew they were good, but you're right, Savvy, the players know what they've got.

So this year the players look around the room and think, "Damn, I'm still exhausted from the last three seasons. WTF is Brandon Mashinter doing in the lineup? What is Q thinking? Hmmm... Maybe this isn't our year."

I agree... the psychology of winning might be the biggest thing. Ken Hitchcock would certainly agree.

Thought the Blues were the better team vs the Hawks. And agreed - the best lineup wasn't iced until game 5. If the Hawks played game 6 (the hustle, determination, grit) like they did game 7 we might be writing a different narrative. But credit to St. Louis - they played great.

This fan base has become spoiled ,sorry had to say it again .It is hard to continue to read such rubbish .Sure they got beat out in the 1st RD for the 1st time since 2012 .They lost by inches to a team that very well could win the cup . Sometimes when you play hockey it dose not go your way ,sometimes the other team get the bounces ,or your team has INJURIES . Maybe your coach is not infallible and makes the wrong decision ,or there are injuries or personnel conflicts involved . Maybe just Maybe with a hard cap it going to be hard to repeat EVER !! This is still a very good team with any luck would still be playing .And will be again next year . I am taking a break from here for awhile .Enjoy some playoff hockey and my summer ,like I hope the players are .Let you folks solve all the many problems the HAWKS have . I will be just a click away though .. Adios Amigos