You get a gold star for one of most sensible posts on here in weeks. the hyperbolic 20-20 hindsite stanbow/Q narratives is way over the top...

the gm wannabees are all knowing about what went into every move...one of the reasons i will mostly stay way during the summer...i luv hanging out here during the season....great guys/gals posting here but the trade/cap/personnel banter/bashing i will do with out
- bogiedoc

I don't think one does any more good than the other. We as fans can sit here and act like everything is peaches and cream or we can analyze, critique, and offer constructive criticism/debate on what should've been done and what should be done this summer. We as fans are not consulted before/after trades and we sure as heck don't have any input into roster decisions. That being said, if you want to pretend like this roster next season will be any more equipped to beat St Louis or Dallas, by all means. Barring a substantial trade/acquisition, this team will be worse than the team that lost game 7 of round 1.

Well, apparently some assume the Boedker/Hawks story was just someone's conjecture/wishful thinking. Thing is, it wasn't. People who make a good living judging hockey players for the Hawks (including Stan Bowman) felt he would be a difference maker playing alongside Toews and Hossa. Boedker's game overall is more refined that Panik's, but Panik is a lot more physical.

But whatever . . .
- John Jaeckel

I believed the Hawks were interested , hope you don't think I thought you were making something up. I just thought he may have been overrated. Hey what do I know I barely saw him play, only went by stats.

Any discussion about acquiring a player with a cap hit more than $1M is not dealing in reality ... unless someone (Crawford?) is removed from the salary cap. And even then it may not free up enough cap space to extend Shaw and acquire another goalie, AND set up enough cap space be available after next season to re-sign Panarin.

To my credit, I wasn't one of them (I'm not right that often that I won't crow about it when I am) - but was that deal (TT plus) ever really there?

But my take from the beginning was that ultimately, Yzerman would see that he would likely lose Stamkos, and would not want to give up a 3rd overall pick - still only 21 - tons of potential - cost controlled for several years (I think)....

Drouin ain't goin' nowhere.
- StLBravesFan

From the little I have heard about the Blues talks around Drouin, I don't think so as I don't see any + that made sense and fit. TT & Shaw? Doesn't fit and Chicago wouldn't want to do that. TT + a late first rounder? Not likely seen to be enough by Tampa plus not what they wanted imho.

When is the last time Stan made an honest good 'ole fashion hockey trade - talent for talent. Not a trade that is a salary dump, or my crap for your crap trade. One of those trade where you give up value to get value like the Johansen for Jones trade was for Nashville and Columbus.

What do the Hawks need the most right now??? For me, it a good young solid defenseman.

If it was me I would do TT for someone like the Devils Damon Severson or what about the Hurricanes Brett Pesce or Jaccob Slavin. Possibly the Oilers with Klefbom, Reinhart, etc. I just throwing some names out there, and have no clue if they would be available, but there has to be a team out there looking for offense that would be more inclined to how TT wants to play, and would be willing to give up a good young d-man in return.
- spudrock512

Closest was the Saad trade. Obviously it was out of necessity yes but it was neither a salary dump nor a trade for strictly prospects or picks. Got a legit #2C and (what was thought of at the time) a pretty good near nhl ready prospect. The one for ones like CBJ and NSH did are very rare.

This was from the HF board in regard to the Raanta trade. Even though we did win 1 cup since the bladder trade Bowman has been brutal and Q has really been as well. If you are going to play Bladder and Gus in the playoffs shouldn't they be playing every day in the regular season the last month? I'm not sure who to blame. Really is we do not luck out in the Panarin signing (he could have signed with any team) if you remove him from this team. are we even a playoff team and we have only a few NHL prospects and now we have 5-6 players that all got about $500K-$1 mil more then they should of.


That was a dumb trade. At that point we already had Hino, Baun, Kero. how many more borderline 4th line players do we trade for? Should have taken a low round pick for both Raanta and Nillson. The other teams both got the better players in the trade and the player with more upside. How do you make a trade where you give up both? Makes no sense. Starting with Runblad for a 2nd at the trade deadline. Of Bowmans 15 trades the only ones you would do a 2nd time where Clending for Forsling, Morin for Panik, and I don't have a big problem with vermette/Dahlstrom + 1st and ladd/Dano +1st.

OTher deals:
Bladder for a 2nd. He was out of options and AZ scratched him every game. Bascially tInoridi for Montreal and they got a 6th for him. Why do you do this at the trade deadline, should have told AZ play him and we will take a look over the summer.
LEddy for Pokka (he was signed at 2.7 for 1 more year should have trade Roz or Bick(when we could have) and Kept Leddy who would have been a RFA after the season)
sharp/Johns for Daley/Garbutt (been beaten to death)
Timo for 2 2nds (way to much to give up for a 40 year old that had not played in 1 year and had a full NMC that would only wave to a few teams)
2nd danult for Weiss and flesch (would have been better playing danult every game)
Daley for Scuds, should have moved daley for a player making under $950K or on a ECL or with a EXP contract. We have 1.1 Hit next year.
GArbutt for Sekec
nillson for Couglin. 5th round pick that had a bad year and we trade a big goalie for him.
Raanta for haggerty
Steeg and Nordy (-4), a solid bottom line player on RF contract and a solid NHL winger on 2.2 and we have to give up a 4th?
SAAD for AA (only saves 1.45 mil this year) a top 10 LW at 22 wants 6 mil per year? AA has been fine but he is top 60/70 center that is paid fairly compared to SAAD who at 6 mil is under paid and getting better.

We trade away SAAD and LEddy RFA's but we give Kruger 1.6 raise and Seabs 1.1 raise.
- kmw4631

That's depressing....

From the little I have heard about the Blues talks around Drouin, I don't think so as I don't see any + that made sense and fit. TT & Shaw? Doesn't fit and Chicago wouldn't want to do that. TT + a late first rounder? Not likely seen to be enough by Tampa plus not what they wanted imho.
- Jason Millen

I don't believe for a minute Drouin was ever really on the market ,and definitely not for TT plus whatever ..

That's depressing....
- grinder10

You get a lot of that around here .Other then going to game 7 with the team that very easily could go to the cup and win it ,the HAWKS are terrible .And have very little hope of ever doing anything in the future

You get a lot of that around here .Other then going to game 7 with the team that very easily could go to the cup and win it ,the HAWKS are terrible .And have very little hope of ever doing anything in the future
- oldduffman

Not sure if it's an age thing or just a reading comprehension thing, but nobody here has said the Hawks are terrible. Nobody has said the Hawks have "no hope of doing anything in the future". People have said that it will be damn near impossible to ice a roster that was even AS GOOD as the one that lost Round 1 in Game 7. Hawks will lose Ladd, Weise, Fleishmann +Rosival and possibly Shaw, and have ZERO cap space to fill those positions with anything but AHLers or UFA garbage. So, like I said to Bogie this morning, you can either put your head in the sand and think its all rainbows and lollipops and somehow they will win the cup with even more roster holes and an older core; OR you can have debate on how Stan could have done it better, and what he can do moving forward to make them legitimate Cup contenders next year.

- DarthKane

Again, do you actually read the posts of Myself or SteveRain or others? It is not "the sky is falling", rather, rational discussion on serious flaws in this roster that cannot be solved from dirt cheap UFA/AHL/Euro/NCAA additions. How is that "The Sky is Falling"?

I haven't seen anything, anywhere suggesting compliance buyouts will be a part of the expansion draft. Have you seen it anywhere other than people on this board?

And this list ignores the other requirement of the expansion draft. 25% of your salary cap must be left exposed. Even if Hossa were bought out, the numbers wouldn't work to protect the players listed. If there is no compliance buyout, Hawks basically have 5-6m of cap hit they can protect outside the NMC's they have to protect.
- Antilles

If the cap goes to $74MM this year, and cap should bump again the following year to say $76MM, 75% of that is $57MM.

Toews/Kane - $21MM, three D guys $16.4MM, CC $6MM, AA/Kruger $7.63MM, Hossa $5.275. That is $56.3MM. If Hossa can be bought out, there is $6MM in cap available to keep Panarin and one or two other forwards like Shaw and Panik, and $19MM left to round out the roster.

I have to believe that the expansion rules have been discussed amongst GMs for some time now and decisions have been made with that in mind.

I agree but Seabs and Krug's were not extended to help win championships they were extended because we did.
This says it all.

The new Model for the Hawks is Pittsburgh. Two players eating up 30% of the Cap.Malkin and Crosby.Toews and Kane. Either AHL players come up and play well and fill holes or the Hawks are a Bubble team next year.

In Pittsburgh they have and it's why they may win the Cup

Again, do you actually read the posts of Myself or SteveRain or others? It is not "the sky is falling", rather, rational discussion on serious flaws in this roster that cannot be solved from dirt cheap UFA/AHL/Euro/NCAA additions. How is that "The Sky is Falling"?
- EnzoD

The overall theme to many posts here is very negative, i.e. Stan is at fault for everything that didn't do the team's way and there were better options for each and every situation but Stan didn't take them.

We can all agree that the current team isn't as good as previous teams nor are they as good as we would like. However, the foundation is there and there's no reason to believe the Hawks won't be a contender for another few years. Who knows it they'll win another championship but they'll have a shot.

The core was tired and banged up. The extended off season will certainly help, but I acknowledge it won't be enough on it's own.

Some of the young guys should be better with more experience (i.e. Panik, TvR), and again I don't think that alone is enough.

There is some decent talent among the Rockford prospects and potential college/European free agents. Landing one or two could have a positive impact.

I'm not worried about replacing Fleischmann and Weise, they didn't contribute much. Were they misused by Q, ya probably. But it won't be hard to replace them. Ladd will be difficult to replace, but again his contributions didn't end up being overwhelming either.

For me the big off season question is Shaw, he would be a huge loss. The salary cap has but the team in another difficult position but that's the nature of the beast. The whole Shaw vs Kruger argument is pointless. We all have our preferences but ultimately if a choice has to be made we will end up keeping one good player and losing one good player.

I know we're still feeling the sting of an early playoff exit, but rather than stew over what went wrong in the past (which we cannot change) why not focus on what can be done to improve the team? We're fans of this team for fun, so let's have fun.

Not sure if it's an age thing or just a reading comprehension thing, but nobody here has said the Hawks are terrible. Nobody has said the Hawks have "no hope of doing anything in the future". People have said that it will be damn near impossible to ice a roster that was even AS GOOD as the one that lost Round 1 in Game 7. Hawks will lose Ladd, Weise, Fleishmann +Rosival and possibly Shaw, and have ZERO cap space to fill those positions with anything but AHLers or UFA garbage. So, like I said to Bogie this morning, you can either put your head in the sand and think its all rainbows and lollipops and somehow they will win the cup with even more roster holes and an older core; OR you can have debate on how Stan could have done it better, and what he can do moving forward to make them legitimate Cup contenders next year.
- EnzoD

Yes Maybe it is a age thing ,because I have seen this team in far more desperate hopeless situations then this . But the retelling of how Stan messed up on trades ,that nobody on here has a clue as to the whole story . He deals with people not chess pieces ,personality and family concerns' fiancés and long term stability of all .The HAWKS were very close ,injuries and luck had a lot to do with their demise .It happens .We have been on the other side over the last few years ,were other teams have the injuries and pucks hit the post and go in . Relax and enjoy the best time ever to be A HAWKS fan . Yes speculation on the future is fine , but rehashing past deals ,well not so much . I still believe this core has a lot to prove ,and some young players already in our system will add to it .

- DarthKane

sky isn't falling....reality Is setting in.

To correct the flaws you will need $$ and you don't have $$$ to spend without moving a WANTED asset, not a POS like Bickell. Could they move Bickell, possibly but it will cost them $$ in RSA and a pick or prospect. If they buy him out money hits this year and next year.

This isn't March with CC having 2 bad games in a row and being lit in on the board. This is a major problem facing this team and a GM who has a history of not doing so great in buyer's markets.

As somebody else posted you will need a 1LW and 1RW...hossa is older and more suited for 3rd line duty and Panik, if signed, is still an unknown.

You also have 1 4th line player signed in Desjardin.

You have 4 D, and a LOT of question marks on the backend.

So yeah....these are logical concerns, and people who think Bickell is getting magically flipped and the cap will go up to 78 million with ZERO Canadian playoff teams, a sagging Canadian $$, need to keep sniffing glue.

Oh and the vaunted rest of the core argument.....Which is all well and nice until the core is taxed.....again...in March having to log heavy minutes because the depth of the roster is inferior.

I was probably one of the geniuses who said don't trade TT for Drouin. My concern at the time was whether or not Drouin was a cancer to avoid. I have to wonder if part of TT's problem is the culture shock and the language adjustment. He seemed to do so much better just having Timonen around.

You get a gold star for one of most sensible posts on here in weeks. the hyperbolic 20-20 hindsite stanbow/Q narratives is way over the top...

the gm wannabees are all knowing about what went into every move...one of the reasons i will mostly stay way during the summer...i luv hanging out here during the season....great guys/gals posting here but the trade/cap/personnel banter/bashing i will do with out
- bogiedoc

Thanks, Bogie!

I agree but Seabs and Krug's were not extended to help win championships they were extended because we did.
This says it all.

The new Model for the Hawks is Pittsburgh. Two players eating up 30% of the Cap.Malkin and Crosby.Toews and Kane. Either AHL players come up and play well and fill holes or the Hawks are a Bubble team next year.

In Pittsburgh they have and it's why they may win the Cup
- Colbyboy

Stan has commented several times that he doesn't get attached to players. I believe that the idea of Seabrook and Kruger getting their contract extensions were solely based on past performance is inaccurate. The fact that they have contributed to past championships is a factor, it shows they are winners and are capable of contributing on a championship level team. I think it's a bit of both - past and possible future performance.

Oof. Forget it. People either get it or they don't. They don't understand what burying cap hits means. They don't understand that you can't just flip aging high-salary players for draft picks. They don't understand that value in a hard-cap league isn't determined only by a player's on-ice production, but by that production relative to his cap hit. They don't understand opportunity cost. I could go on.

I think the biggest knock on Bowman is that he's not in sync with his coach, though I'm not sure whose fault that is. Giving up Marko Dano and a first-round pick (a high price to pay -- not sure who else was offering what for Ladd) at least brought you back a guy the coach was willing to play nightly. Giving up Danault, a true center, for two players who were supposed to play on the third line every night, only to see them ride the pine while the guy who was supposed to center them plays on the right wing... well, that's a major waste of assets. And a major problem.
- darklighter

I think you're missing what some people are getting at. The issue is what was Bowman's larger plan in making these trades. You're telling me they could not have got a better offer for Leddy that summer? How many D of his caliber at his age are ever available? We got back Pokka in return and it looks like he will never make the Hawks or at best be #6. 2 2nds for Kimmo? What? You could have traded Daley for a low pick and saved the additional cap space. I have no idea why the Hawks wanted anything to do with Scuds and now that is a 1 mil plus we don't have next year. The Hawks did not have any cap issues at the time they traded Daley. He had value and a decent cap hit. Runny pants? Um... better options to be had at a slightly lower or equal cap hit. That is 2 mil in cap space we desperately need this off-season.

Bowman seems to be a step slow, over confident, or lacking a long term vision.

Let's take the Danault situation in its entirety. Traded Brouwer for a 1st. Fine with that. We selected Danault and developed him. Looks like he will be a really really solid bottom 6 guy. We then move him for Weise and Fleischman, who Q refuses to play, and they have little impact. Even if they do play doubt they get us a Cup. Our net gain from trading Brouwer is ZERO. The same can be said about the Sharp trade and it appears the Leddy trade as well. These are high caliber NHL players getting moved for nothing.

We get cap space from the trades. Great awesome. I understand the value and that a players cap hit can lower their trade value regardless of the skills they posses. BUT ANY GM can trade guys for cap space. I could sit there and trade high quality NHLers away for cap space. I expect more from the Hawks front office. Teams can't afford to trade away these type caliber players for literally nothing. That is what causes a dominant team, in the salary cap era, to slowly decay. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Or in this case maybe a few big ones.

I love 3 cups in 6 years. It has been unreal but this team has had boat loads of talent come and go. Why be satisfied with 3 when you have and have had the talent for more. People need to realize how lucky the Hawks got with Panarin. Say he's a bust. Say TVR is a bust. The Hawks would be sitting here with 2 legit top 6 players and 2 borderline ones in Hossa and Anisimov and three legitimate NHL Defensemen and then nothing else. The scouting department has found some real gems that have saved Bowman's behind. The none FA moves made by him have been brutal.

The Saad trade does not impress me. You were able to move a 23 year old top line power wing for a prospect and 2/3 center. A lot of meh you did your job at a competent level then wow our team is better off. Bowman just mitigating losses doesn't do it for me. Repeatedly losing high quality NHL players for nothing can't happen.

Finally, whoever mentioned the Top 6 LW being our big issue now is spot on. We saw Kane take whatever 2C he was given and carry that line. He makes that line tick. Now we have a hole on 1LW. It is clear that Toews does not have that same ability. My thoughts are move Panarin to Toews wing permanently and let Kane make whatever scrub LW you put with him look good.

Rant over. Sorry!

Another Stan mistake...(sorry for the sarcasm, I'm in a mood).



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Report: Forsling signs with Blackhawks

Another Stan mistake...(sorry for the sarcasm, I'm in a mood).



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Report: Forsling signs with Blackhawks
- DarthKane

Clendening for anything that can help the Hawks in the NHL is a win. Solid low-risk move, same with the Morin-Panik swap.

Another Stan mistake...(sorry for the sarcasm, I'm in a mood).



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Report: Forsling signs with Blackhawks
- DarthKane

???? What is the mistake, signing him or trading for him? Who was traded for Forsling, oh yea, what's his name.

???? What is the mistake, signing him or trading for him? Who was traded for Forsling, oh yea, what's his name.
- powerenforcer

I was being sarcastic...hence the advanced apology for sarcasm.

Clendening for anything that can help the Hawks in the NHL is a win. Solid low-risk move, same with the Morin-Panik swap.
- EnzoD

Agreed...if Forsling is nothing more than an AHL defenseman then this trade is a wash. Anything more and the trade is a win for Stan.

More and more I really like the Morin/Panik trade. The jury is still out on where Panik will fit in with the team (bottom 6 or top 6), but this trade has already been a big win.