Gotta agree and have to take into account we only had a small sample size of him and had limited playing time. Kid could be a good player - the potential is there, but Kruger provides many intangibles.
- 93Joe

But the question becomes, does Kruger provide 3x more value on the ice than Rasmussen or another ELC/UFA bottom 6 Center that could have been signed for <$1mil? I do not think his on-ice production/suppression of the opponent is 3x better than the average 4C, and that is why I do not like the contract. I respect the heck out of the player bc he is a slightly built guy that does everything you want as a coach, but the offensive production has to be increased to justify that $$$ amount on a cap-strapped club, IMO.

Pretty sure 90% of this board wanted Daley gone.....
- Blackwater13

Probably. Of course, none of us are paid literally millions of dollars per year to get player personnel decisions right.

That's kinda debtable. Kruger has a funny looking stride but people who are in skating "for a living" have told me he is one of the Hawks top skaters.
- John Jaeckel

Interesting. I honestly don't know much about skating mechanics at all. Danault just seemed to be more of an explosive skater. We rarely see Kruger in open ice with or without the puck though to be fair. I'll trust your skating guys over my untrained eye everytime.

Here is my issue with his cap hit. I think he is worth it in a world were we don't have major cap issues. Could he get 3 mil from another team? Most likely yes. My concern is if we are paying him 3 mil to be the shut down guy then Q needs to ease the burden on the Toews line. Let Kruger's line do all of the heavy lifting next year during the regular season. The Toews line can then see easier matchups which should allow them to score more 5 on 5.

Put Kruger together with Hossa make them the shut down 3rd line. Make them the top PK unit too. Let him play "3rd line" minutes and really be a shut down center. We have seen Kruger do that in the playoffs in years past. He needs to do it for the entire regular season. I want to see him play 14-16 mins a night and smother opposing teams top lines and score a bit too. That means you can't saddle him with the Manshinters of the world either. Q threw him out their on the 4th line with forwards he would only play 5-6 mins and a bunch of Rockford shuffle guys early last season. Yuck. Put him with Hossa and another legit bottom 6 wing and give all of them regular shifts and he scores more.

Give me 30-40 points from him next year and the Hawks are a force down the middle.

Probably. Of course, none of us are paid literally millions of dollars per year to get player personnel decisions right.
- darklighter

deck was stacked against Daley

Offensive dman with mediocre at best defensive awareness and skill - Strike 1
Q being temperamental with risky dmen - Strike 2
Daley coming off hip surgery in less that optimal shape - Strike 3
Learning new system - Strike 4
Blackhawks never practice where he can pick up the system easier- Strike 5
Being asked to replace Oduya - Strike 6
Getting limited power play time - Strike 7
Getting a scary neck injury right when he showed signs of life - Strike 8

All this post mortem stuff is over done. The Hawks were a bounce or two away from beating the Blues. Toews had 0 goals and Kane had 1 goal in the 7 games. If either one of them scores 1 more goal the Hawks probably prevail as 6 of the 7 games were one goal games.

JJ's suggestion that to stay the course is insanity because we would be expecting different results from doing the same thing is a little misguided. Yes, the same thing could happen next season where Toews and Kane can't put the puck in the net, or the Hawks get no goals from 2 double post shots, or 3 goals in the first 4 games deflect in off Hawks players - but that's how close it is most times. Of course it would be better to have a legit #4 d-man and to have improvements in the line up, but the other teams are flawed too.

I don't know how the off season is going to play out, but I don't think the Hawks are that far away and in fact I wouldn't mind taking our chances going into the playoffs with the exact line up. Hopefully Keith and Shaw can avoid suspensions and Toews recoups over the summer and gets back to all phases of his elite play - including scoring goals.

All this post mortem stuff is over done. The Hawks were a bounce or two away from beating the Blues. Toews had 0 goals and Kane had 1 goal in the 7 games. If either one of them scores 1 more goal the Hawks probably prevail as 6 of the 7 games were one goal games.

JJ's suggestion that to stay the course is insanity because we would be expecting different results from doing the same thing is a little misguided. Yes, the same thing could happen next season where Toews and Kane can't put the puck in the net, or the Hawks get no goals from 2 double post shots, or 3 goals in the first 4 games deflect in off Hawks players - but that's how close it is most times. Of course it would be better to have a legit #4 d-man and to have improvements in the line up, but the other teams are flawed too.

I don't know how the off season is going to play out, but I don't think the Hawks are that far away and in fact I wouldn't mind taking our chances going into the playoffs with the exact line up. Hopefully Keith and Shaw can avoid suspensions and Toews recoups over the summer and gets back to all phases of his elite play - including scoring goals.
- EbonyRaptor

I would like to go into the playoffs next year with the same lineup too. Except that Ladd, Weise, Fleishmann, and Rosival (and probably Shaw) will all be gone. Who takes Ladd's spot in the top 9? Or Rosivals 17 minutes a night?

Can anybody tell me if we are still in the bidding for college free agents or KHL free agents.

Can anybody tell me if we are still in the bidding for college free agents or KHL free agents.
- spanky

I think they may be in on the bear from the Labatts commercials. He can skate pretty well.

All this post mortem stuff is over done. The Hawks were a bounce or two away from beating the Blues. Toews had 0 goals and Kane had 1 goal in the 7 games. If either one of them scores 1 more goal the Hawks probably prevail as 6 of the 7 games were one goal games.
- EbonyRaptor

Sure, but how much of this is because St. Louis's coach is comically bad? The "strategy" of letting the Blackhawks have the puck -- which he did for virtually all of game one and pretty much every time St. Louis had the lead... I mean, he might as well have been a Saturday-morning cartoon villain gloating over his brilliant plan while the hero undoes his handcuffs, steals a weapon from an unsuspecting henchman, sneaks a smoke, and then foils the evil plan in the nick of time. This is the same guy who's giving his best forward third-line minutes. Just awful.

Could you imagine what a competently coached St. Louis Blues team would have done? I won't feel comfortable until the Blues make it to the conference finals, which ought to be enough to seal an extension for Hitch.

I would like to go into the playoffs next year with the same lineup too. Except that Ladd, Weise, Fleishmann, and Rosival (and probably Shaw) will all be gone. Who takes Ladd's spot in the top 9? Or Rosivals 17 minutes a night?
- EnzoD

That's true, but Ladd, Fleishmann and Weise (and Panik) were all acquired during the season and most or all of them will probably not be here next season. But, Stan will probably find a way to bolster the lineup at the TDL like he does every season.

As for Shaw - that one does concern me. I love the guy - warrior who always brings it and ramps it up even more when it matters most.

I would like to go into the playoffs next year with the same lineup too. Except that Ladd, Weise, Fleishmann, and Rosival (and probably Shaw) will all be gone. Who takes Ladd's spot in the top 9? Or Rosivals 17 minutes a night?
- EnzoD

Here is the replacement. Would do a better job too.

Here is the replacement. Would do a better job too.


- breadbag

I found Rundblad's replacement too

But the question becomes, does Kruger provide 3x more value on the ice than Rasmussen or another ELC/UFA bottom 6 Center that could have been signed for <$1mil? I do not think his on-ice production/suppression of the opponent is 3x better than the average 4C, and that is why I do not like the contract. I respect the heck out of the player bc he is a slightly built guy that does everything you want as a coach, but the offensive production has to be increased to justify that $$$ amount on a cap-strapped club, IMO.
- EnzoD

I think that is a valid question for sure. But based on the recent past, he can line up well against top lines and do well on the PK (more evident in last year's playoffs with Getzlaf, Perry and the rest of the Ducks and in 2013 playoffs.)
And I do agree that the amount may be questionable considering the amount of money certain players on this team make. Personally, I like the signing.
Up the middle Toews-Anisimov-Kruger-Rasmussen, I think that's pretty decent up-the-middle depth. Would like to see Anisimov improve on the draw a bit more.

Don't think some of us are delusional whiners, for me, it was questioning if he would have been better than the #5 or #6 Dmen they put out on the ice in the playoffs, that's all.
- vabeachbear

so...those total times of 21.00 combined minutes of determined this first round series?
... having Daley there makes the difference even though he won't buy in?



It is so very EASY TO PLAY ARMCHAIR GM AFTER THE FREAKING FACT.

look to the REAL culprits in the loss: Your super star girlfriend Panarin over handling the biscuit and his lack of conviction to SHOOT when he should, and the big guys not getting it over the line.

boo FFggnng hooo that all three adds at forward crapped the bed.
The add ons are NOT the be all cure all, and if they are, you team is not that great.

Yes ALL THREE if you really watched.

I wonder if Fleischmann was injured...but any one with craps the bed, so what that is not your core....

They thought daley wasn't the answer and I can live with THEIR decision, not no non insider after thought

Kruger is better defensively, and waaaay better at the dot...Anisimov scores more goals, but he also gets PP time, and gets to play with Panarin and the MVP of the league Patrick Kane...IF Kruger played with them two he'd have a 20 goal season to show for it as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think Anisimov is very good 2nd line C...I just think people don't give Kruger enough credit
- captainserious

Kruger plays D very well
He plays O poorly. Will never score 20 goals, even playing with the best.
I think Anisimov play D well and O well.

Hossa's a top 6 guy on most teams in the league. Again, the Hossa=3rd liner narrative may be running amok a bit at this point. But point taken overall about winger depth.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed he was an offensive force in Game 7 those weren't moves of a bottom 6 guy. He is still a Top 6 winger. But the idea/luxury of a guy of his prowess on the "3rd line" is awfully nice to think about. End of the day he is top 6 wing still and the Hawk desperately need him to be one for the foreseeable future. I said it before I think once he gets over the 500 goal hump things will be a lot better. He is a hall of fame player I think he will adjust his offensive game to compensate for the 1/4 step he's lost.

What is this? An image for ants?
- hawkeytalkman

LMAO

All this post mortem stuff is over done. The Hawks were a bounce or two away from beating the Blues. Toews had 0 goals and Kane had 1 goal in the 7 games. If either one of them scores 1 more goal the Hawks probably prevail as 6 of the 7 games were one goal games.

JJ's suggestion that to stay the course is insanity because we would be expecting different results from doing the same thing is a little misguided. Yes, the same thing could happen next season where Toews and Kane can't put the puck in the net, or the Hawks get no goals from 2 double post shots, or 3 goals in the first 4 games deflect in off Hawks players - but that's how close it is most times. Of course it would be better to have a legit #4 d-man and to have improvements in the line up, but the other teams are flawed too.

I don't know how the off season is going to play out, but I don't think the Hawks are that far away and in fact I wouldn't mind taking our chances going into the playoffs with the exact line up. Hopefully Keith and Shaw can avoid suspensions and Toews recoups over the summer and gets back to all phases of his elite play - including scoring goals.
- EbonyRaptor

If March 2, 2017 this teams defense 4-7 is not improved, they will not get out of the first round again.

Hossa's a top 6 guy on most teams in the league. Again, the Hossa=3rd liner narrative may be running amok a bit at this point. But point taken overall about winger depth.
- John Jaeckel

JJ,

Any whispers rumbling yet about Stan's plan for Panarin?

This is getting a little silly.

Look up the general numbers for 4C's around the league. Kruger's numbers (save for this season) are on par or slightly ahead of the league average. He's 25, skates well, and is great defensively. His contract is also not out of line with a majority of other similar players in the league. Take the team we just lost to, would you rather have Kruger or Brodziak/Ott?

Similar situation with Seabrook. At the beginning of the year, would anyone truly say that it would be a good idea to get rid of him for someone like Hamonic or Trouba? He just signed his extension and he is slotted right where he should be. The only guys that really out score him and are paid less are Keith and Burns (Burns cap hit is 40k less and is the same age).

I'll grant you that they each did not have their best years this year, but aside from Panarin, Kane and maybe Shaw, who on this team did? Save for about 15-20 games, this team did not really play well. We won on great goaltending, our PP and overtime, when elite skill truly takes over.

I understand the salary and cap hit concerns, but you do have to pay for good players. I'd rather put my money on Seabrook bouncing back (at age 31), than hope that Q likes some new guy. I'd rather have the problems we have than be Vancouver or Colorado right now.

Is there work to be done by the front office? absolutely. Are we likely to lose a player or two we don't want to? yes. Could Stan and Q have handled a few situations better? you know it. Is it worth the effort to grind teeth over deals that are already done? In my opinion, no. Look forward and hope that the office can find another couple of players and create some room.

Whew, no more Lagavulin at 4:15 for me!

This is getting a little silly.

Look up the general numbers for 4C's around the league. Kruger's numbers (save for this season) are on par or slightly ahead of the league average. He's 25, skates well, and is great defensively. His contract is also not out of line with a majority of other similar players in the league. Take the team we just lost to, would you rather have Kruger or Brodziak/Ott?

Similar situation with Seabrook. At the beginning of the year, would anyone truly say that it would be a good idea to get rid of him for someone like Hamonic or Trouba? He just signed his extension and he is slotted right where he should be. The only guys that really out score him and are paid less are Keith and Burns (Burns cap hit is 40k less and is the same age).

I'll grant you that they each did not have their best years this year, but aside from Panarin, Kane and maybe Shaw, who on this team did? Save for about 15-20 games, this team did not really play well. We won on great goaltending, our PP and overtime, when elite skill truly takes over.

I understand the salary and cap hit concerns, but you do have to pay for good players. I'd rather put my money on Seabrook bouncing back (at age 31), than hope that Q likes some new guy. I'd rather have the problems we have than be Vancouver or Colorado right now.

Is there work to be done by the front office? absolutely. Are we likely to lose a player or two we don't want to? yes. Could Stan and Q have handled a few situations better? you know it. Is it worth the effort to grind teeth over deals that are already done? In my opinion, no. Look forward and hope that the office can find another couple of players and create some room.

Whew, no more Lagavulin at 4:15 for me!
- Chunk

Good post and, once again, it comes down to allocation of dollars and you can't compare Kruger to any other team's 4C bc no other team has so much cap space taken up by 5 players.

Good post and, once again, it comes down to allocation of dollars and you can't compare Kruger to any other team's 4C bc no other team has so much cap space taken up by 5 players.
- EnzoD

I get your point, but you are then looking to fill lines with guys that are either very young or not very good. We Went through a number of those guys this year (Tik, Bicks, Kero, Mash, etc.). If Kruger put up 10 and 20 - as he has done in the past - I don't see the issue. I am not arguing at all the fact that changes need to be made. I am also not blind to the cap problems. My main point is that if you want to be good for a sustained period of time, you have to have a number of really good-to-great players, and that will put you near the cap every time.

I believe you said before (again there currently is scotch involved) that you agreed the range for Kruger was 2.5-3, and he is just slightly over that number. I personally think it is a good deal for what he brings (again, assuming he gets back to the 10g 20a area).

In the Blues-Stars pregame they were talking about how good Backes has been these playoffs. Whoever posted earlier that each Blues player was better than their Hawks counterpart was spot on. Backes>Toews, Tarasenko>Kane, Elliott>Crawford, Schwartz/Fabbri>Panarin, every Blues dman>all the Hawks dmen etc.

Backes even got the OT winner Toews usually gets

Trying to catch up here, but I do agree on Daley. LIke I said yesterday, at the time of the trade I didn't hate it. You got back a Oduya type player and veteran depth guy who add some scoring. Now whatever happened has gone done, and like others I am willing to pass a lot of blame around but the organization's commitment to TVR I am going to bet played a large role in Daley wanting out. IF they would have slotted Daley in the 3/4 D spot and put TVR down below....he's probably still here.

NO qualms on Sekac. That guy did nothing me unlike Panik who at least showed promise. Sekac just floated around reason why he's on his 4th in a little amount of time.

For those who were on the Daily herald blog back in the summer of 2009 when Bolland got his ASININE deal, and know how much I despised that deal....I know look at Kruger the same way.

I have given up hope Shaw is returning. It piisses me off to no end, as if you want to argue possible back/concussion issues for Shaw, find me another NHL player who gets absolutely smoked like Kruger does. He has no idea how not to put himself in bad positions and is a free hit stat for anyone who wants it. Throw in his bad wrist and you have Bolland part deux.

At least good ole Bollus could score....

So how does Shaw and his agent ignore the fact that the Hawks just committed a 3.083 cap hit for 3 years to a guy who statistically might be no better then Mike Hudson, or Mike Eagles. Great win that draw, Marcus, but then skate off the ice because John SCott may have a better chance at scoring....

Kruger....

328 games played, 28 goals, 60 assists---regular season
83 games played, 6 goals, 9 assists----playoffs

His defenders will point to his overall game. Great. Shaw has a more complete versatile game....Could Kruger skate top 6 as well as bottom 6? Not a chance in hell. And for all the big goals Kruger has scored in the playoffs, the only one I really recall is his OT winner vs Anaheim in game 2....possibly the last time he has scored.

Shaw.....
302 games played, 70 g, 60 assists---regular season
64 games played, 16 g, 18 assists---playoffs

And I'm sure we can all recall a lot more crucial Shaw goals then Krugers in meaningful moments.

I just dont' get the rational and if we want to bash Q about linesups, then why not bash the FO on trading Danault who I'm damn sure given similar linemates produces more.

Kruger is one of the worst bangs for the buck on this team, and will cost you more then shaw, and I'm sure EVERY GM in the league scoffed at the cap hit the Hawks gave a guy to be a glorified PK and faceoff man.
- SteveRain

Not a damn thing I can disagree with here except maybe first paragraph. Yes the Daley deal got you an Oduya type player but it was unknown exactly how he'd fit whereas if no salary came back you could resign a known player in JO. But I get what you're saying.

IDK, been reading everything here for some time. If I'm Rocky Wirtz, you know the guy that ultimately signs all the checks, and i'm catching "wind" of alleged discord between MY front office and the coaching staff, namely Q. Then i call ALL of them into my office and tell them to either fix it, or find new employment. And that would apply to ALL of them. i would be curious to see what someone like Babcock would do with this team. JJ has hinted on numerous occasions about "too many cooks in the kitchen". If someone like McD. is fouling up hockey ops, Rocky needs to step in and correct that. NOW! As well as any other discord that may exist. This "core" isn't getting any younger. End of story. Thanks.

Bob P.