I too said in the offseason that the Phillies would be that one random team that gets hot when unexpected and pushes for a playoff spot. Much like the Astros, As, O's, and Royals in recent years
- arichardson22

Unless they can upgrade their corner outfielders, they aren't coming close to the playoffs.

Was he the guy that Strasburg had to chide into signing, a mere 1 season after Strasburg almost didn't sign?
- jmatchett383

not exactly sure but I do know Strausburg and Harper both were picked up by Nats right around the same time and at that time, Harper was the best batting prospect in baseball and Strausburg was baseball's best pitching prospect. Since then and recent years, my general interest in the MLB has gone down.

Sadly, at some point, the lack of offense is going to catch up with them. However, their pitching has been better than I expected and maybe, just maybe, they could reach .500 this year. It would be a helluva accomplishment if they did.
- BiggE

Exactly.

I made it kind of a joke. "They're gonna surprise people! SPs make it to .500!"

Which is sad, but also not- because that batting lineup could be outslugged by the a good college team.

I guess I just dont buy the fact that Hartnell wasnt worth ANYTHING else to ANY other team.

I mean, a 3rd rounder? A couple of young players? I dont buy it. They made that trade becasue they thought Umberger could bring what Hartnell brought (albeit at a bit lower end) and would have less term. That wasnt the case.

Since day one, I said I didnt like the trade, not that Hartnell was traded.
- jak521

No, this was not why they made the trade. they maybe thought umberger was capable of 10 minutes a game and maybe some work on the PK. they didnt think he could be a top line LW that had 30 goal potential like hartsy when he left. theres no way they thought anything close to that.

again, the trade was made for one reason only, cap flexibility for the future. and now as were sitting here, being able to buyout umberger this year, rather than having to wait another 3 years for hartnell's contract to come off the books, i feel like that trade proved pretty successful. hartnell wasnt gonna win us a stanley cup on his own. maybe add a few more wins to the team, but nothin drastic.

i do this trade 100/100 times, no doubt

Unless they can upgrade their corner outfielders, they aren't coming close to the playoffs.
- BiggE

highly unlikely, but baseball's season is so damn long you never know.

Unless they can upgrade their corner outfielders, they aren't coming close to the playoffs.
- BiggE

I wonder when guys like Williams, Joseph, Knapp and Crawford make the jump the Phillies.

Hopefully Howard hits well that he is moved.

I am excited to see some of the youth eventually.

I too said in the offseason that the Phillies would be that one random team that gets hot when unexpected and pushes for a playoff spot. Much like the Astros, As, O's, and Royals in recent years
- arichardson22

I don't think they come near pushing for a playoff spot. The starting pitching is great, no doubt. But even if they could keep this up for a full season; the hitting is the issue. This offense is "timely hitting" personified. That can only last so long before it catches up with you. Velasquez is 4-1 with a total of 11 runs of support. Unless he's the next Kershaw, you're not going to win most of your games with an average of 2.2 run support.

That being said, not being a curmudgeon. Future looks bright. But as many are hinting to.... they need some offense. We'll see if Williams/Crawford/others is the key or if they'll need a hired bat or two.

No, this was not why they made the trade. they maybe thought umberger was capable of 10 minutes a game and maybe some work on the PK. they didnt think he could be a top line LW that had 30 goal potential like hartsy when he left. theres no way they thought anything close to that.

again, the trade was made for one reason only, cap flexibility for the future. and now as were sitting here, being able to buyout umberger this year, rather than having to wait another 3 years for hartnell's contract to come off the books, i feel like that trade proved pretty successful. hartnell wasnt gonna win us a stanley cup on his own. maybe add a few more wins to the team, but nothin drastic.

i do this trade 100/100 times, no doubt
- sjk540

I've been onboard with this trade since day 1. And I still am. Hartsy is already wanted out by Torts and I hope he finds success with another club, but I think this season is where the Hartsy decline begins and will make this trade look even smarter when Umby is not on our roster.

I wonder when guys like Williams, Joseph, Knapp and Crawford make the jump the Phillies.

Hopefully Howard hits well that he is moved.

I am excited to see some of the youth eventually.
- J35Bacher

Absolutely!

Bullpens are "easy" to build. You always see random guys popping up as good lefties, or end of game guys.

If they can grab some bats...
- Giroux_Is_God

Exactly right. That's how Klentak approached it in the offseason. He brought in journeymen type guys like Hernandez, Russell, Bailey etc. so there would be depth. If one isn't performing, fine bring up another guy to replace him. People keep mentioning their bullpen will regress at some point I just don't see it. It certainly won't be as violent as some are suggesting. The biggest issue is scoring runs and bailing out the young pitchers when push comes to shove.

Exactly right. That's how Klentak approached it in the offseason. He brought in journeymen type guys like Hernandez, Russell, Bailey etc. so there would be depth. If one isn't performing, fine bring up another guy to replace him. People keep mentioning their bullpen will regress at some point I just don't see it. It certainly won't be as violent as some are suggesting. The biggest issue is scoring runs and bailing out the young pitchers when push comes to shove.
- TobyFlenderson

They are also guys that if they pitch well can be moved at the TDL to a contender for prospects. Guys that aren't in the long term but could bring back a B level prospect.

I wonder when guys like Williams, Joseph, Knapp and Crawford make the jump the Phillies.

Hopefully Howard hits well that he is moved.

I am excited to see some of the youth eventually.
- J35Bacher

Given how awful the outfield has been outside of Herrera, I think we see Williams a lot sooner than people think. He's hitting .299 for LHV.

They are also guys that if they pitch well can be moved at the TDL to a contender for prospects. Guys that aren't in the long term but could bring back a B level prospect.
- J35Bacher

Word. Which is why it sucks Morton got hurt. He was looking like a fantastic reclamation project.

Given how awful the outfield has been outside of Herrera, I think we see Williams a lot sooner than people think. He's hitting .299 for LHV.
- TobyFlenderson

I keep hoping Howard hits well so they can eventually move him.

Maybe joseph or Knapp then can play at 1st.

I think Knapp will move to 1st with Alfaro at catcher.

Exactly right. That's how Klentak approached it in the offseason. He brought in journeymen type guys like Hernandez, Russell, Bailey etc. so there would be depth. If one isn't performing, fine bring up another guy to replace him. People keep mentioning their bullpen will regress at some point I just don't see it. It certainly won't be as violent as some are suggesting. The biggest issue is scoring runs and bailing out the young pitchers when push comes to shove.
- TobyFlenderson

Hell look at Gomez. Second in the NL in saves...sub 2 era.

No, this was not why they made the trade. they maybe thought umberger was capable of 10 minutes a game and maybe some work on the PK. they didnt think he could be a top line LW that had 30 goal potential like hartsy when he left. theres no way they thought anything close to that.

again, the trade was made for one reason only, cap flexibility for the future. and now as were sitting here, being able to buyout umberger this year, rather than having to wait another 3 years for hartnell's contract to come off the books, i feel like that trade proved pretty successful. hartnell wasnt gonna win us a stanley cup on his own. maybe add a few more wins to the team, but nothin drastic.

i do this trade 100/100 times, no doubt
- sjk540

Hard to call the trade a success. Hexy didn't just trade Hartnell for the cap relief. It may have been the primary motivation behind it, but there's no way he was "OK" with next to zero production at 4.6M a year for 2 years. And now having to deal with 1.6M (?) of dead weight for the next two years? I think if Hexy had a glimpse into the future and saw that this is how things would play out; he wouldn't do it again.

26 points in 106 games, or 109 points in 156 games? Also, is 3 more years of Hartnell such a terrible thing? He's essentially performing at the same clip as he has been for the bulk of his career. I understand that physical guys drop off, but I don't see how it's guaranteed to happen in the next 3 years. If Hartnell stays healthy and continues to put up 40-50 points a year; it's hard to call this trade anything other than a fleecing.

I get it. Cap flexibility. But at what cost? Could you imagine having Hartnell against the Caps this year? I dunno.....

Hell look at Gomez. Second in the NL in saves...sub 2 era.
- Giroux_Is_God

Yep, exactly. And Neris is tied with Betances for most strikeouts as a reliever and possesses one of the most unhittable pitches in the league (at least early on).

Having a spirited discussion on Bill's facebook page arguing that if the Flyers still had Carter and Richards instead of who they were traded for, the Flyers would be going deeper in to the playoffs.

I keep hoping Howard hits well so they can eventually move him.

Maybe joseph or Knapp then can play at 1st.

I think Knapp will move to 1st with Alfaro at catcher.
- J35Bacher

Call me a softie, but I'd like to see Howard stay. It's his last year. He'll obviously never live up to that contract, but there's something about watching a ball crack off his bat and go yard. I'd like to see the Phils keep that for the rest of the season, if possible.

I keep hoping Howard hits well so they can eventually move him.

Maybe joseph or Knapp then can play at 1st.

I think Knapp will move to 1st with Alfaro at catcher.
- J35Bacher

I still think Howard being moved isn't a possibility and I won't be upset if they can't. I think Knapp and Alfaro go the other way around. Knapp is a better receiver and Alfaro is injured frequently. I think they'd rather him play a position that isn't such a grind. I've been pleasantly surprised by Joseph so far. He's been tearing through triple A pitching.

Call me a softie, but I'd like to see Howard stay. It's his last year. He'll obviously never live up to that contract, but there's something about watching a ball crack off his bat and go yard. I'd like to see the Phils keep that for the rest of the season, if possible.
- steelydan

Would be great if he hit a walk-off in the final home game of the year. He gave us a lot of good years, was a huge part of that WS title, and is the best power hitter for the team of his generation. It's been sad to see him ever since 2012, but going out with a bang would be perfect.

Call me a softie, but I'd like to see Howard stay. It's his last year. He'll obviously never live up to that contract, but there's something about watching a ball crack off his bat and go yard. I'd like to see the Phils keep that for the rest of the season, if possible.
- steelydan

He did a lot but if you can get a b level prospect for him from an American League team you do it.

If guys like Knapp and Joseph are hitting well they need to bring them up. I truly believe if they had a legit prospect ready to play at 1st he would have been released before the season started.

I still think Howard being moved isn't a possibility and I won't be upset if they can't. I think Knapp and Alfaro go the other way around. Knapp is a better receiver and Alfaro is injured frequently. I think they'd rather him play a position that isn't such a grind. I've been pleasantly surprised by Joseph so far. He's been tearing through triple A pitching.
- TobyFlenderson

Knapp is the better defensive catcher but Alfaro has a cannon behind the plate.

Either way one will be at 1st probably.

Pavel Padakin, who played in the AHL and the ECHL this season, is going to the KHL for 16-17.

http://www.hcsochi.ru/art...in-v-stane-leopardov-4072
http://www.eliteprospects...m/player.php?player=68358

Having a spirited discussion on Bill's facebook page arguing that if the Flyers still had Carter and Richards instead of who they were traded for, the Flyers would be going deeper in to the playoffs.
- MBFlyerfan

Good old Facebook.

In 2016 the value gap between Carter and Richards versus Schenn, Simmonds, Couturier, Cousins and Voracek isn't close.