Jesus relax... So sensitive. It's not a shot at the Leafs. It's a shot at the NHL.
- rugdnit

If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.

I would still like to hear of a move the Leafs made that you think was not justified.
- Aetherial

Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting

Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting
- CanuckDon

OK great.

Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting
- CanuckDon

God bless you.

If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.
- Aetherial

It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.

It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.
- dbot

It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful

It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful

- walshyleafsfan

Nice generalization there bud.

It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful

- walshyleafsfan

Did he say he was offended?

It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.
- dbot

Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.

Nice generalization there bud.
- dbot

Consider the source. As much as he claims to be here just to talk hockey he can't wait to take quotes back to Augello's thread to try and boost his popularity.

If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.
- Aetherial

And it wasn't as gross as watching Buffalo trade away any player who was playing too well for two seasons.

The Leafs did one of the best tank jobs in terms of doing everything you want to do, and doing it over one season, without being gross. Traded expiring contracts, moved veteran role players, brought in a bunch of young roster players and some smart waiver pickups.

Curious to see how aggressively the Leafs look to improve or if they'll spend another year taking players off other teams hands. Something like taking Stoner off Anaheim or one of the goalies out of Dallas, or if they only make "improvement" style moves.

Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.
- Aetherial

Therein lies the rub. They aren't usually holding you back from achieving short term, yet often are long term.

Therefore, giving up on those players and replacing them with youth makes you a worse team (generally speaking). It kind of goes against the spirit of sport, which means you should be trying to win every game.

It's not a Leafs thing, it's a league in general thing.

Consider the source. As much as he claims to be here just to talk hockey he can't wait to take quotes back to Augello's thread to try and boost his popularity.
- golfingsince

Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.
- Aetherial

Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.

Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.
- dbot

Who did the Leafs move away that wasn't a pending UFA that was talented?

Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.
- Aetherial

It honestly only improves the franchise to dump those guys. Whether you like moves like Etem or Granlund or Vey or not, giving them the spots of Higgins, Prust, Burrows is good for the long term health of the team.

Even moving on from Hansen is something to seriously look at doing so that he doesn't turn into Higgins' situation.

Hanging on to underperforming veterans too long instead of turning those spots over to promising youth is one of the most frustrating things teams do. You even see it in New York where guys like Hayes and Lindberg can't get in the lineup because for whatever reason Tanner Glass needs to play.

I'd prefer a trad with buffalo for Sam
- Pres.cup

In a minute.

- walshyleafsfan

What, you gonna pretend that doesn't go on?

What, you gonna pretend that doesn't go on?
- golfingsince

Trust me. I don't get any more credibility quoting Nucks fans in the Leafs thread. May as well quote Button or Garf

And it wasn't as gross as watching Buffalo trade away any player who was playing too well for two seasons.

The Leafs did one of the best tank jobs in terms of doing everything you want to do, and doing it over one season, without being gross. Traded expiring contracts, moved veteran role players, brought in a bunch of young roster players and some smart waiver pickups.

Curious to see how aggressively the Leafs look to improve or if they'll spend another year taking players off other teams hands. Something like taking Stoner off Anaheim or one of the goalies out of Dallas, or if they only make "improvement" style moves.
- Lindenis#1

Good question. I think it depends on how much they feel some of the AHL guys are ready for the NHL? It also depends on Stamkos, If they sign him, it is going to cost. Then if they add a Free agent, they may not be in a position to use their cap space to help rebuild.

Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.
- dbot

I think you would be happy if they moved all those guys you listed Just my opinion though.

Trust me. I don't get any more credibility quoting Nucks fans in the Leafs thread. May as well quote Button or Garf
- walshyleafsfan

You do it for laughs. I've seen it plenty of times.

I think you would be happy if they moved all those guys you listed Just my opinion though.
- Aetherial

You must have me confused with Nucker.
He's probably switched loyalties to the Leafs by now.

Good question. I think it depends on how much they feel some of the AHL guys are ready for the NHL? It also depends on Stamkos, If they sign him, it is going to cost. Then if they add a Free agent, they may not be in a position to use their cap space to help rebuild.
- Aetherial

Even taking Bickell and putting him in the AHL for a season only costs some cap space and you'll get something outta Chicago for the favour. Probably would only cost a cheap option like Frattin or something too

You do it for laughs. I've seen it plenty of times.
- golfingsince

Every fan base does it when there's something they deem ridiculous. For example, Leafs fans were discussing how they could get OEL, Domi, Strome, and their 7th for the #1, Pittsburgh's 1st, and Kadri. Is that not worth sharing? Canucks fans say some crazy homer-like things. Same with Oiler fans. Pretty much all fanbases have those crazies that make them look bad. No sense letting good comedy go to waste.