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Forums :: Blog World :: Carol Schram: Vancouver Canucks Drop to 5th Pick In Draft Lottery, Raising New Questions
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Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

May 1 @ 8:32 PM ET
Jesus relax... So sensitive. It's not a shot at the Leafs. It's a shot at the NHL.
- rugdnit



If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.
CanuckDon
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Las Vegas
Joined: 08.05.2014

May 1 @ 8:43 PM ET
I would still like to hear of a move the Leafs made that you think was not justified.
- Aetherial

Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

May 1 @ 8:45 PM ET
Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting
- CanuckDon


OK great.

walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

May 1 @ 8:48 PM ET
Your team is a joke. Shanahan's comments after winning the lottery were disgusting
- CanuckDon



God bless you.
dbot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Auckland -Burn it all down
Joined: 10.22.2008

May 1 @ 8:48 PM ET
If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.

- Aetherial



It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

May 1 @ 8:52 PM ET
It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.

- dbot

It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful
dbot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Auckland -Burn it all down
Joined: 10.22.2008

May 1 @ 8:54 PM ET
It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful

- walshyleafsfan


Nice generalization there bud.
A_SteamingLombardi
Location: Systemic failure / Slurptastic
Joined: 10.12.2008

May 1 @ 8:56 PM ET
It's a great thing to witness the very same fans who hounded Leafs fans about the team having to trade away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel to become successful, actually being offended the Leafs traded away Phaneuf, Clarkson and Kessel in an attempt to become successful

- walshyleafsfan

Did he say he was offended?
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

May 1 @ 8:57 PM ET
It's the principle of tanking that i take issue with.
Many canucks fans would have cheered if we dropped Burrows, Higgens, Miller, Hamhuis and others throughout the season...effectively tanking.

although we still sucked tremendously as it turns out, I would not and am not in favour of tanking like that. I think it sets a bad precedent, would be hard on the young players, etc. Also, our market would not sustain tanking.

Toronto is different. There is so much fan support and they've been horrible for so long...drastic times call for drastic measures.
It can't be replicated elsewhere necessarily (especially the randomness of winning the lottery).

That's my opinion anyways.

- dbot


Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

May 1 @ 8:57 PM ET
Nice generalization there bud.
- dbot


Consider the source. As much as he claims to be here just to talk hockey he can't wait to take quotes back to Augello's thread to try and boost his popularity.

Lindenis#1
Vancouver Canucks
Location: he's (frank)in unstable so mrs dt is freaking out, AB
Joined: 07.22.2007

May 1 @ 8:57 PM ET
If I am being honest, I freely admit that we "tanked" this year.

The thing is, I started looking at what exactly we did to "tank" and it occurred to me that I agreed with the moves management made.

A lot of Leafs fans felt we got the shaft on the Kessel trade. (we did), but even that, I could understand why it had to happen.

The thing that Leafs fans were most happy about was getting rid of bad contracts. It wasn't about anybody wanting to lose. It was about not wanting to suck and pay ridiculous contracts for the privilege of sucking every (frank)ing year.

Cap space is everything.

- Aetherial


And it wasn't as gross as watching Buffalo trade away any player who was playing too well for two seasons.

The Leafs did one of the best tank jobs in terms of doing everything you want to do, and doing it over one season, without being gross. Traded expiring contracts, moved veteran role players, brought in a bunch of young roster players and some smart waiver pickups.

Curious to see how aggressively the Leafs look to improve or if they'll spend another year taking players off other teams hands. Something like taking Stoner off Anaheim or one of the goalies out of Dallas, or if they only make "improvement" style moves.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

May 1 @ 9:01 PM ET
Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.

- Aetherial


Therein lies the rub. They aren't usually holding you back from achieving short term, yet often are long term.

Therefore, giving up on those players and replacing them with youth makes you a worse team (generally speaking). It kind of goes against the spirit of sport, which means you should be trying to win every game.

It's not a Leafs thing, it's a league in general thing.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

May 1 @ 9:02 PM ET
Consider the source. As much as he claims to be here just to talk hockey he can't wait to take quotes back to Augello's thread to try and boost his popularity.
- golfingsince

dbot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Auckland -Burn it all down
Joined: 10.22.2008

May 1 @ 9:02 PM ET
Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future
? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.

- Aetherial


Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

May 1 @ 9:05 PM ET
Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.

- dbot

Who did the Leafs move away that wasn't a pending UFA that was talented?
Lindenis#1
Vancouver Canucks
Location: he's (frank)in unstable so mrs dt is freaking out, AB
Joined: 07.22.2007

May 1 @ 9:07 PM ET
Ok, I get that.

Do you think an organization should never consider the future? Why hold on to the players you listed if they are holding the team back from achieving.

I understand the spirit of what you are saying, but if you guys dumped all those guys, I would have to admit that I agreed with all of it. In fact, I think the Sedins are great players, but it is likely too late in their careers to rebuild a contender around them. If you could trade them, I would applaud that move also.

Again, it is easy for me to say this now, since the Leafs have gone down that road, but I honestly think I would have understood if you did those things this past season.

- Aetherial


It honestly only improves the franchise to dump those guys. Whether you like moves like Etem or Granlund or Vey or not, giving them the spots of Higgins, Prust, Burrows is good for the long term health of the team.

Even moving on from Hansen is something to seriously look at doing so that he doesn't turn into Higgins' situation.

Hanging on to underperforming veterans too long instead of turning those spots over to promising youth is one of the most frustrating things teams do. You even see it in New York where guys like Hayes and Lindberg can't get in the lineup because for whatever reason Tanner Glass needs to play.
VanHockeyGuy
Joined: 04.26.2012

May 1 @ 9:07 PM ET
I'd prefer a trad with buffalo for Sam
- Pres.cup


In a minute.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

May 1 @ 9:07 PM ET

- walshyleafsfan


What, you gonna pretend that doesn't go on?
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I really don't care about Nylander, I really hope he gets injured and is out - Makita
Joined: 07.14.2011

May 1 @ 9:11 PM ET
What, you gonna pretend that doesn't go on?
- golfingsince

Trust me. I don't get any more credibility quoting Nucks fans in the Leafs thread. May as well quote Button or Garf
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

May 1 @ 9:18 PM ET
And it wasn't as gross as watching Buffalo trade away any player who was playing too well for two seasons.

The Leafs did one of the best tank jobs in terms of doing everything you want to do, and doing it over one season, without being gross. Traded expiring contracts, moved veteran role players, brought in a bunch of young roster players and some smart waiver pickups.

Curious to see how aggressively the Leafs look to improve or if they'll spend another year taking players off other teams hands. Something like taking Stoner off Anaheim or one of the goalies out of Dallas, or if they only make "improvement" style moves.

- Lindenis#1


Good question. I think it depends on how much they feel some of the AHL guys are ready for the NHL? It also depends on Stamkos, If they sign him, it is going to cost. Then if they add a Free agent, they may not be in a position to use their cap space to help rebuild.


Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

May 1 @ 9:19 PM ET
Of course the mgmt should consider the future, and it's not black and white. It's a fine line of moving some and keeping others obviously.
I would actually be ok with moving the Sedins (not going to happen in my opinion), because i think you'd get a great return and because of where we are in the rebuild and with youth coming in that could move up the depth chart.

But that's different than moving out all our talent, from every position, knowing the effect it would have.

In other words, no problem making big trades, just not into tanking.

- dbot


I think you would be happy if they moved all those guys you listed Just my opinion though.
golfingsince
Location: This message is Marwood approved!
Joined: 11.30.2011

May 1 @ 9:20 PM ET
Trust me. I don't get any more credibility quoting Nucks fans in the Leafs thread. May as well quote Button or Garf
- walshyleafsfan


You do it for laughs. I've seen it plenty of times.
dbot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Auckland -Burn it all down
Joined: 10.22.2008

May 1 @ 9:21 PM ET
I think you would be happy if they moved all those guys you listed Just my opinion though.
- Aetherial


You must have me confused with Nucker.
He's probably switched loyalties to the Leafs by now.
Lindenis#1
Vancouver Canucks
Location: he's (frank)in unstable so mrs dt is freaking out, AB
Joined: 07.22.2007

May 1 @ 9:23 PM ET
Good question. I think it depends on how much they feel some of the AHL guys are ready for the NHL? It also depends on Stamkos, If they sign him, it is going to cost. Then if they add a Free agent, they may not be in a position to use their cap space to help rebuild.
- Aetherial


Even taking Bickell and putting him in the AHL for a season only costs some cap space and you'll get something outta Chicago for the favour. Probably would only cost a cheap option like Frattin or something too
MaximumBone
Edmonton Oilers
Joined: 06.15.2012

May 1 @ 9:24 PM ET
You do it for laughs. I've seen it plenty of times.
- golfingsince

Every fan base does it when there's something they deem ridiculous. For example, Leafs fans were discussing how they could get OEL, Domi, Strome, and their 7th for the #1, Pittsburgh's 1st, and Kadri. Is that not worth sharing? Canucks fans say some crazy homer-like things. Same with Oiler fans. Pretty much all fanbases have those crazies that make them look bad. No sense letting good comedy go to waste.
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