Yeah, we know you won't admit that. But they were eliminated in the first round.
Like . . . The Wild.
- John Jaeckel

Not the Hawks fault that because of the way the seeding is set up they had to face another top 5 team in round 1.

I see him as a very good 5 who can spot fill as a 4. Just my limited viewing 2 cents (this is based on how Q uses minutes I should clarify)
- Jason Millen

Spot on. Oh, and I'm sorry for kinda sabotaging your thread here. Not my intention. What do you think the Blues have to do in game 1 to steal home ice tomorrow night?

Not the Hawks fault that because of the way the seeding is set up they had to face another top 5 team in round 1.
- SimpleJack

Right, makes for a great series but really not that fair that one of these teams had to go home this early.

Still gotta wait and see on Danault, how he progresses. Same with the other Dano.

I'd say the success has been more "big time" than the failures. You're not gonna win the Cup every year. Overall I've been pleased.

His mistakes have been the Sharp trade, and overvaluing Bickell and Rundblad. I would add Timomen on a lighter note but they won the Cup anyways and it really didn't matter, but i do believe they are still paying him 750,000 this year which didn't help.

Other than that he's done a great job and we're still set up pretty well for the future until the core declines.
- SimpleJack

Kevin Hayes
Ludvig Rensfeldt
Justin Holl
Kent Simpson
Mark McNeill
Philip Danault

What do they have in common? All 1st and 2nd round draft picks from 2010-2011 who should have been helping the Hawks in these playoffs, at least a couple of them. Most acquired through picks obtained in the 2010-11 sell-off.

Whiff.

Ivan Vishnevskiy
Viktor Stalberg
Chris DiDomenico
Philippe Paradis

Also obtained in those trades.

Whiff (mostly).

So you can pump Stan's tires all you want. But a chimpanzee has a puncher's chance every year with a roster that starts with Toews, Kane, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook, Crawford.

His record is mostly mixed. Some good, some bad. And not very good over the last 11 months. Those are just facts.

Bowman decided to keep Hjalmarsson over Niemi, he went out and added Oduya and that formed an elite shutdown 2nd pairing that helped them win 2 championships.

He also drafted Saad, Shaw, TT, Kruger, etc to sustain/rebuild forward depth on the fly after having to move so many guys after 2010.

Also adding Vermette and Desjardins last season proved to be HUGE come playoff time.

Went out and found TVR, and was able to salvage Anisimov out of losing Saad to fill in the hole at 2C. That created a hole at top 6 LW, but...

He then landed Panarin and stole Panik for TOR.

Overall its been decidedly more good than bad IMO.
- SimpleJack

Well as a Blues fan I like to focus more on the bad things that he's done
I did like the Anisimov trade, I think Jarmo got the worst of that move as they are now depleted at center.

You just look at guys like Leddy and Oduya and what they could have had but instead have guys like Bickel and Rundblad. He has a good eye for talent, a lot of which is probably coming from his old man, but as far as negotiating, a GM's most important attribute, I'm not that impressed.

No doubt that it was a pretty even series in which goaltending played a big role in deciding it. Elliott was a big part of the difference but other stuff you mention can be misleading.

Some of the "advanced" stats favor shots way too much without consideration of the type of shots. In one of the games, Elliott faced 14 in one first period when the Blues were outshot about 2 to 1. A Junior B level goalie likely would have stopped all 14 though the "advanced" stats likely said the Hawks big time outplayed the Blues even though the Blues were more likely to actually score in that period.

Looking a bit deeper... Blues outscored Chicago when goalies were actually in the net, defending it. Blues had more high-danger scoring chances for.
- Jason Millen

Amen. Blues had much better quality shots, at least in 5 of the 7 games. Quality over quantity. Too often the Hawks fell into their pretty hockey game, instead of grinding out goals.

Hats off to the Blues though. I know most Hawks fans probably don't want to see the Blues win, but rather see a Central team than the Ducks or Pens.

Spot on. Oh, and I'm sorry for kinda sabotaging your thread here. Not my intention. What do you think the Blues have to do in game 1 to steal home ice tomorrow night?
- Hawks_49

No worries.

Play like they did in any game but game 6 of the first series. If they play like Game 5, count the W imho. Sure Dallas would have scored in that bad 1/3 of the 2nd period but the Blues would have had a lot more goals on a lesser D and lesser G team the rest of the time. Similar to game 2. I think game 2's effort is enough for a road W.

I hope to have more on that tomorrow night.

Well as a Blues fan I like to focus more on the bad things that he's done
I did like the Anisimov trade, I think Jarmo got the worst of that move as they are now depleted at center.

You just look at guys like Leddy and Oduya and what they could have had but instead have guys like Bickel and Rundblad. He has a good eye for talent, a lot of which is probably coming from his old man, but as far as negotiating, a GM's most important attribute, I'm not that impressed.
- fattyboubatty

Lost RJ and AA.....oops?

Well as a Blues fan I like to focus more on the bad things that he's done
I did like the Anisimov trade, I think Jarmo got the worst of that move as they are now depleted at center.

You just look at guys like Leddy and Oduya and what they could have had but instead have guys like Bickel and Rundblad. He has a good eye for talent, a lot of which is probably coming from his old man, but as far as negotiating, a GM's most important attribute, I'm not that impressed.
- fattyboubatty

I'm not impressed with a lot of the Hawk's front office. They inherited a pretty solid bunch of players. Plenty of GMs could have pulled at least a couple of Stanley Cups with that 2009 roster as a start. He's a made a couple nice deals, but feel their long term vision has been lousy, and they've been afraid of making a tough trade, or waiting too long, overplaying the market.

Kevin Hayes
Ludvig Rensfeldt
Justin Holl
Kent Simpson
Mark McNeill
Philip Danault

What do they have in common? All 1st and 2nd round draft picks from 2010-2011 who should have been helping the Hawks in these playoffs, at least a couple of them. Most acquired through picks obtained in the 2010-11 sell-off.

Whiff.

Ivan Vishnevskiy
Viktor Stalberg
Chris DiDomenico
Philippe Paradis

Also obtained in those trades.

Whiff (mostly).

So you can pump Stan's tires all you want. But a chimpanzee has a puncher's chance every year with a roster that starts with Toews, Kane, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook, Crawford.

His record is mostly mixed. Some good, some bad. And not very good over the last 11 months. Those are just facts.
- John Jaeckel

Depends on what your definition of "mostly mixed record" is. 29 other teams would kill to have the Hawks record and ability to constantly retool on the fly through a salary cap era. IMO you're coming off like you have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations assuming they should have done better over that time, and assuming any average joe could have done better just because you have an elite core.

I'm not impressed with a lot of the Hawk's front office. They inherited a pretty solid bunch of players. Plenty of GMs could have pulled at least a couple of Stanley Cups with that 2009 roster as a start. He's a made a couple nice deals, but feel their long term vision has been lousy, and they've been afraid of making a tough trade, or waiting too long, overplaying the market.
- howiehandles

Im sorry but the Hawks elite core only ever won Cups because the supporting cast was built properly around them.

Its INCREDIBLY ignorant for some Hawks fans to keep assuming any average joe could have won multiple championships after losing the supporting cast in 2010. I can't stress enough just how ignorant it is....

I don't like the glove position on Bishop at all on that last Prince goal.

Im sorry but the Hawks elite core only ever won Cups because the supporting cast was built properly around them.

Its INCREDIBLY ignorant for some Hawks fans to keep assuming any average joe could have won multiple championships after losing the supporting cast in 2010. I can't stress enough just how ignorant it is....
- SimpleJack

My brain has never fully healed from the explosion that occurred when Brian Campbell was traded.

Congrats to the Blues!
The best(deepest) team won!
I like your chances going forward if you are indeed healthy.
And i nominate Backes for the Lady Byng! He may have finally gotten a handle on his emotions and realized his actions were only hurting his team in the long run.

Congrats to the Blues!
The best(deepest) team won!
I like your chances going forward if you are indeed healthy.
And i nominate Backes for the Lady Byng! He may have finally gotten a handle on his emotions and realized his actions were only hurting his team in the long run.
- camfor

I'm actually really curious to see how this next series goes in that regard. I love David Backes & his game when he's on. Against the Hawks, Backes was exactly what he needed to be for the Blues. Tough, physical, smart, defensively sound & had contributions on offense. I'm just hoping that it wasn't just a case of the intense pressure to win a series keeping his focus up, & now that they're thru, they'll relax a bit. I don't believe that's the case, but as a Blues fan, I need to be shown.

Add to that fact he & Jamie Benn have developed a real dislike for each other, & there's a real opportunity for Backes to come off the rails (so to speak). Some of their battles have gotten pretty nasty.

HAVING SAID THAT, this feels like a different, more mature Blues team. If they play like they did against Chicago, I really like their chances to reach the Conf. Finals, or further. Dallas has more glaring holes than Chicago, so the same effort from St. Louis should lead to a series win, IMHO.

Depends on what your definition of "mostly mixed record" is. 29 other teams would kill to have the Hawks record and ability to constantly retool on the fly through a salary cap era. IMO you're coming off like you have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations assuming they should have done better over that time, and assuming any average joe could have done better just because you have an elite core.
- SimpleJack

'Retool' needs to be defined. Like mortgage the future, yes. Stan did that. The core is really good, but there were a lot of other factors that impacted the teams they beat to win the last 2 cups.

Depends on what your definition of "mostly mixed record" is. 29 other teams would kill to have the Hawks record and ability to constantly retool on the fly through a salary cap era. IMO you're coming off like you have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations assuming they should have done better over that time, and assuming any average joe could have done better just because you have an elite core.
- SimpleJack

'Retool' needs to be defined. Like mortgage the future, yes. Stan did that. The core is really good, but there were a lot of other factors that impacted the teams they beat to win the last 2 cups.

'Retool' needs to be defined. Like mortgage the future, yes. Stan did that. The core is really good, but there were a lot of other factors that impacted the teams they beat to win the last 2 cups.
- down_in_a_hole

What impacted the Bruins and Bolts that tilted those series? And don't say injuries because all teams have those that deep into a playoff run.

What impacted the Bruins and Bolts that tilted those series? And don't say injuries because all teams have those that deep into a playoff run.
- SimpleJack

Everyone has injuries. But the injuries to bishop and Johnson were too much. And not Boston, the philly series. Their def was dessimated, and really didn't have any business being in the finals. But wins are wins.

Not over confident here. 25% is still failing. Use the CPA score for pass/fail. Under that scenario you don't even pass until you get to the SCF.
- Jason Millen

CPA score isn't a percentage though, it's a number of points calculated using such a complicated process that nobody understands it so nobody can appeal. You just click and hope >75 appears

Im sorry but the Hawks elite core only ever won Cups because the supporting cast was built properly around them.

Its INCREDIBLY ignorant for some Hawks fans to keep assuming any average joe could have won multiple championships after losing the supporting cast in 2010. I can't stress enough just how ignorant it is....
- SimpleJack

That 2010 team was STACKED! In all fairness when they had the fire sale that summer after the first Cup I thought they were a one and done for sure. I remember thinking they were screwed, but also thinking hell they got a Cup out of it. To the Hawks front offices credit they retooled and found a way to win two more. Very impressive. They really have their work cut out for them now, because that talent pool is dried up to some extent and the cap has them up against a wall. With Toews, Kane, Keith they will have a solid core group for quite some time, but an expensive one. They have to hope they nail the draft at this point. That or work some more magic.

That 2010 team was STACKED! In all fairness when they had the fire sale that summer after the first Cup I thought they were a one and done for sure. I remember thinking they were screwed, but also thinking hell they got a Cup out of it. To the Hawks front offices credit they retooled and found a way to win two more. Very impressive. They really have their work cut out for them now, because that talent pool is dried up to some extent and the cap has them up against a wall. With Toews, Kane, Keith they will have a solid core group for quite some time, but an expensive one. They have to hope they nail the draft at this point. That or work some more magic.
- Hull16

They've still got a lot of solid elite pieces in place for the next 2-3 years at least. Crawford, Toews, Kane, Hossa(maybe just next year or 2), Panarin, AA, Keith, Seabs, Hammer, then second tier guys like Kruger, Teravainen, Desjardins, and TVR. You'd like to think at least one of Shaw/Panik will be part of this as well, if not both.

So, you're talking about having to fill in bottom pairing defenseman and 1-2 bottom 6 forwards with cap that will rise and options to move and gain cap space by being creative. I think they have at least 1-2 more solid seasons as legit Cup contenders, especially next season before Panarin/TT are due raises.

CPA score isn't a percentage though, it's a number of points calculated using such a complicated process that nobody understands it so nobody can appeal. You just click and hope >75 appears
- Jackman

It's too easy now that you don't have to take all 4 parts in 2 consecutive days

Sounds like Seguin to miss at least the first two games.

http://sportsday.dallasne...-five-days-starts-skating

Im sorry but the Hawks elite core only ever won Cups because the supporting cast was built properly around them.

Its INCREDIBLY ignorant for some Hawks fans to keep assuming any average joe could have won multiple championships after losing the supporting cast in 2010. I can't stress enough just how ignorant it is....
- SimpleJack

Meh, I would say assembling the supporting cast is the easiest thing for a GM to do. Third and fourth line players and 4-7 depth D men are the cheapest and easiest players to obtain. Bowman has the luxury 29 other GM's don't have in that he doesn't have to bring in any cornerstone pieces. Meanwhile, everyone else is trying to assemble or at least add to a cup caliber core along with the supporting cast.

You want to point to the salary cap as an excuse, keep in mind that he has had the advantage of having world class players Keith and Hossa signed to now illegal, very cap friendly deals that no other team is currently benefiting from.

What is killing them from a cap standpoint (besides the 4 million tied up on Bickell) is the huge money he has paid out to Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, and to a lesser extent Kruger. I would argue that they are all overpaid. Even if you say it's only by an average of 750k, that's a couple extra mil this year and almost 4 next year. Do they deserve it for past cups, probably so but as the Hawk players are cleaning out their lockers, they need only look to 19 and 88 as the reason why there wasn't enough of a supporting cast.

Which comes back to Bowman, once you start handing out top dollar, everyone expects to get it. I bet Hjalmarson wants to renege on his deal because he is about the only one signed to a reasonable, legal cap friendly contract.