Well ok then.


I take back my comment about the coaches then.

Dorion may do a fantastic job. I may be blinded by my hatred for Melnyk, but to me, promoting from within, after all the blunders that management has made, doesn't strike me as 'big changes'.
- Charliebox

Well, we actually agree on 1 thing: dislike for Melnyk...Although hatred is a strong word! LOL

Like I said before, Dorion might not be the best man there is (who would you have put?), but I highly doubt he does the same as Murray unless they are Garth Snow puppets to Melnyk...Dorion is not the same mold as Bryan Murray; that was Tim Murray...Dorion comes from a family of hockey execs and has his own philosophy of what needs to be done...Give him time!
This is the first real cleanup the Sens have done in a VERY long time!
New GM, New head coach, New Assistant coaches and even some player movement as Dorion said today...
Only thing that could be better is a new owner...but that's wishful thinking!

Well, we actually agree on 1 thing: dislike for Melnyk...Although hatred is a strong word! LOL

Like I said before, Dorion might not be the best man there is (who would you have put?), but I highly doubt he does the same as Murray unless they are Garth Snow puppets to Melnyk...Dorion is not the same mold as Bryan Murray; that was Tim Murray...Dorion comes from a family of hockey execs and has his own philosophy of what needs to be done...Give him time!
This is the first real cleanup the Sens have done in a VERY long time!
New GM, New head coach, New Assistant coaches and even some player movement as Dorion said today...
Only thing that could be better is a new owner...but that's wishful thinking!
- Raven33

I don't think it's unreasonable to be a little underwhelmed with Dorian becoming the GM. Does he really have such a different philosophy than Murray? While working under Murray for several years? I hope that's the case, but my expectations are tempered. Cameron was getting canned regardless who was the new GM or if Murray stayed on. The draft will be a good first test to see where Dorian's head is at. I assume a new coach will be named well before that. Which will also be a good view into what we can expect.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be a little underwhelmed with Dorian becoming the GM. Does he really have such a different philosophy than Murray? While working under Murray for several years?
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

A few of the things he's been saying indicate to me his methods are a bit different. He was definitely a student of Murray, so it might be similar but different. Different isn't always better though. We will see.

I have no hate for Murray. I sense a lot of financial pressure and influence on some deals. I'd agree that Sens management rushed youth a bit. However, the challenges of a financially handicapped GM can't be underestimated. I wouldn't say Murray was any more or less successful than any other average GM.

Im personally hoping for Hitch or Julien (if they become available)

Not interested at all in Crawford or Boucher

Im personally hoping for Hitch or Julien (if they become available)

Not interested at all in Crawford or Boucher
- SENS 613

Would you be comfortable with very defensive system being put in place here if hitch is the coach?

Curious how he and EK would get along.

You don't have a #1 center (or a #2 center for half the season).

You don't have a legitimate 2nd line RW.

You don't have any scoring depth in your bottom two lines whatsoever.

You don't have a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

You don't have a #3 Dman until the deadline or a legitimate bottom pairing.

.........and it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

Couldn't have said it better myself. The only common threads are Murray and Melnyk.

I few of the things he's been saying indicate to me his methods are a bit different. He was definitely a student of Murray, so it might be similar but different. Different isn't always better though. We will see.

I have no hate for Murray. I sense a lot of financial pressure and influence on some deals. I'd agree that Sens management rushed youth a bit. However, the challenges of a financially handicapped GM can't be underestimated. I wouldn't say Murray was any more or less successful than any other average GM.
- MaxTLimit

I don't disagree with any of this, but clearly what was trying to be done didn't work. Tight money may indeed play a factor, but then again, I think there was around 20 million of basically wasted money on the pay roll at the start of this year. We did get rid of a lot of dead weight in the Dion deal, and Weircioch and Chaisson will likely be let go soon, so money should be better used. I think Murray did ok with the hands he was dealt. But I think a little different philosophy is needed. Personally, I look at Dallas and am impressed how they have built their team basically through good trades and good development. They have not tanked or bought big time free agents.

From all accounts Murray is a stand up guy. I've heard from guys in customs whenever the team comes through, he is the most pleasant to talk to and always willing to share stories.

So basically what Cameron did with this team last year?

I've said it before and again I will repeat: The Sens overachieved the last two seasons.

This year, they had career offensive years from:
Karlsson
Ceci
Stone
Pageau
Smith
Lazar (not that it means much with him)
Zibby
Hoffman

I know I'm simply repeating myself but it blows my mind that people can blame a coach for a team's defensive issues when the team had three legitimate Dman for 3/4 of the season.
- Charliebox

This. With the exception of Zibby and Stone, you've got some serious defensive liabilities on that list. Starting at the top (whether you want to admit it or not).

College players rarely amount to much, but an extra prospect is never a bad thing.
- david22

Woah What? There are tons of the players who went to college who do very well in the pros. Jack Eichel is pretty good, Ben Bishop, Vanek, Johnny Gaudreau, St. Louis, Quick etc. and those are just a couple of Hockey East guys off the top of my head. Colin White is the first player in college to score 30 goals since Vanek.

Check out a college hockey game sometime and get your head out of your arse

[quote=david22]College players rarely amount to much, but an extra prospect is never a bad thing.
- tunmasterflex

Woah What? There are tons of the players who went to college who do very well in the pros. Jack Eichel is pretty good, Ben Bishop, Vanek, Johnny Gaudreau, St. Louis, Quick etc. and those are just a couple of Hockey East guys off the top of my head. Colin White is the first player in college to score 30 goals since Vanek.

Check out a college hockey game sometime and get your head out of your arse

Woah, should have specified, as FA signings.

Although I did think that was obvious from the context.

I don't disagree with any of this, but clearly what was trying to be done didn't work. Tight money may indeed play a factor, but then again, I think there was around 20 million of basically wasted money on the pay roll at the start of this year. We did get rid of a lot of dead weight in the Dion deal, and Weircioch and Chaisson will likely be let go soon, so money should be better used. I think Murray did ok with the hands he was dealt. But I think a little different philosophy is needed. Personally, I look at Dallas and am impressed how they have built their team basically through good trades and good development. They have not tanked or bought big time free agents.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Dallas has a very good coach in Ruff. I do agree that Dallas seems a good comparison for the Sens model. I don't think the Sens can look to getting elite talent like Benn and Seguin. Stone looks like he may be up there, but Benn is just a beast. Seguin is a points machine. When you have a 30+ goal Jason Spezza as your 2LC...you got some offense. I don't know how good defensively Dallas is on D or in net though. If the Sens are going to be an offense first team like Dallas, they are gonna need depth instead of several top tier players. I think.

From all accounts Murray is a stand up guy. I've heard from guys in customs whenever the team comes through, he is the most pleasant to talk to and always willing to share stories.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I'm wondering if that is part of the problem. There are some soft heart deals that aren't helping. Philips being resigned wasn't the smart move. It was the nice move. Neil resigning this year and before wasn't smart, but it was the nice and loyal thing to do. Murray says he gives out deals sometimes to 'good guys' . I wonder if, at times, Murray is too soft hearted to be the ruthless business man required for some hockey moves. I have no idea about anything like that though.

Does anyone know what Sutter and Quenville make??? EM just said that you don't have to spend $4M+ on a coach and used recent cup winners as an example...

Does anyone know what Sutter and Quenville make??? EM just said that you don't have to spend $4M+ on a coach and used recent cup winners as an example...
- SensnRBs

Sutter - 2.75 mil
Quenneville - 2.25 mil

Babcock is the only coach (who's salary is disclosed) who makes more than 3 mil (he makes more than double the next guy )

Tim Murray can trade former first round D Mark Pysyk to Ottawa along with top six power center Zemgus Girgensons. Murray can also add in prospect Nick Baptiste and two second round draft choices.

~Garf

any guesses for who?

Tim Murray can trade former first round D Mark Pysyk to Ottawa along with top six power center Zemgus Girgensons. Murray can also add in prospect Nick Baptiste and two second round draft choices.

~Garf

any guesses for who?
- Tumbleweed

Knowing garf......I'll say this was his proposal for karlsson

Edit: just read it........not just for karlsson, but Karlsson and Hoffman. That's (frank)ing retarded even by garf standards. He'll, even cloutier wasn't that bad

Knowing garf......I'll say this was his proposal for karlsson

Edit: just read it........not just for karlsson, but Karlsson and Hoffman. That's (frank)ing retarded even by garf standards. He'll, even cloutier wasn't that bad
- sensarmy_11

To be fair, he threw in a 1st for hoffman.

So basically what Cameron did with this team last year?

I've said it before and again I will repeat: The Sens overachieved the last two seasons.

This year, they had career offensive years from:
Karlsson
Ceci
Stone
Pageau
Smith
Lazar (not that it means much with him)
Zibby
Hoffman

I know I'm simply repeating myself but it blows my mind that people can blame a coach for a team's defensive issues when the team had three legitimate Dman for 3/4 of the season.
- Charliebox

Can you please stop writing. Your knowledge of hockey in general is poor. We've gone over this. Remember - Zibanejad the bust.lol. Just another season where he got better. And he was out of shape. Another 20g season and 50 points this year too. But he's a bust....

Anyways,

Cameron deserves to shoulder a lot of blame. The list is far too long to go through but I will say this.

out shot 2/3 of the game this season.

Awful on PP
Awful on PK
Awful 5 on 5
Awful in their own zone.

Oh, and he wanted a team of Mark Boro..... Who he benched Hoffman for to give him his spot on forward. Dressing Oconnor (melnyk was right for a change).

The list goes on.... Those are the major ones I guess.

The problem was Murray. He continuously went to the Mike Babcock well. He found him years ago and kept thinking he could find the next one. All the coaches were inexperienced and rookies. Maclean was good enough til he got cocky and lost his mind.

But Cameron deserved what he got. I'm sure he's a nice guy but he wasn't a god coach.

So, please stop thinking he was. Players should shoulder some blame but the coaching was not NHL caliber.

Sutter - 2.75 mil
Quenneville - 2.25 mil

Babcock is the only coach (who's salary is disclosed) who makes more than 3 mil (he makes more than double the next guy )
- sensarmy_11

[EDIT] My original post was from TSN1200 on the drive home ..... I just listened to T&S on Sportsnet and EM stated that he would spend what he needed to spend for an experienced coach .... in discussing a $2M-3M range.....

The Citizen is reporting that Julian is in and around $2.7M.

One would assume that if any of those three hit the market, their agents would want more than what they currently get, but $3.5M ..... maybe $4M would be reasonable.

Just because The Centre of The Universe drastically overpays, doesn't mean that they set the market.... *cough* Clarkson .....

[EDIT] My original post was from TSN1200 on the drive home ..... I just listened to T&S on Sportsnet and EM stated that he would spend what he needed to spend for an experienced coach .... in discussing a $2M-3M range.....

The Citizen is reporting that Julian is in and around $2.7M.

One would assume that if any of those three hit the market, their agents would want more than what they currently get, but $3.5M ..... maybe $4M would be reasonable.

Just because The Centre of The Universe drastically overpays, doesn't mean that they set the market.... *cough* Clarkson .....
- SensnRBs

While I want to bring in an experienced guy, I'm not sure Julian would be a great fit. I know he's from the area, blah, blah, but I think a better fit would be Marc Crawford. I like that he hasn't coach for a few years. Probably means he's watched a variety of hockey, just not one team. I want a guy whose watched a lot of hockey and recognizes and adapts to what it takes to win now rather than coming in and implementing their same old plan which may not work. Good to hear hat Eugene may open the wallet a little bit more for a coach.

[EDIT] My original post was from TSN1200 on the drive home ..... I just listened to T&S on Sportsnet and EM stated that he would spend what he needed to spend for an experienced coach .... in discussing a $2M-3M range.....

The Citizen is reporting that Julian is in and around $2.7M.

One would assume that if any of those three hit the market, their agents would want more than what they currently get, but $3.5M ..... maybe $4M would be reasonable.

Just because The Centre of The Universe drastically overpays, doesn't mean that they set the market.... *cough* Clarkson .....
- SensnRBs

Babcock's contract defiently sets the market for coach's who have been successful for years. Coach's are going to be expensive now

So, Kahdri got six-years, $27 Million ($4.5 Million AAV)...... he had 45 pts (17-28)

Hoffman had 59 (29-30)..... so does that put Hoffman at 6 years, $33M?? ($5.5M AAV)???