In an age of unparalleled parity, courting fans that only put their money on the table when you are winning is a dangerous fiscal game to play.

I'm an Oilers fan. I share season tickets and go to about 10 games a year. It has been mostly atrocious hockey for the last 10 years, but I go. And so do many other fans. The building is always packed. For a perennially losing team with virtually no hope on the horizon to turn it around. Don't tell me that ANY team with losing seasons will have trouble selling tickets. It's just not true.

The argument, for me at least, has never been that there are no fans in some of the less traditional markets (for lack of a better categorization). It has not been that the fans aren't vocal or don't rabidly support their team. It's that the fanbase just isn't big enough. You get yourself 100,000 fans and you're going to sell out the building during the good times as they'll all want to attend the game. You start losing, though, and then maybe only 1 in 10 will want to attend (if that) and all of a sudden you only have 10,000 show up. Take that same situation to a city with 500,000 fans. They'll sell out in the good times and in the bad times, 1 in 10 will give you 50,000 people who want tickets. 1 in 20 is still a sellout. Oh, and of course you need to factor in ticket price. In 2014-15, the average ticket price in Florida was at the bottom of the league and less than half that of small market Canadian teams like Edmonton and Winnipeg. Not selling out is one thing. Not selling out while offering dirt-cheap tickets is another. Especially when a half full stadium in a traditional market is essentially worth as much as a sellout in Florida.

I know the way to grow a fanbase is through winning which the Panthers haven't done much of for a while. It's just that the counter-argument is "why bother growing a fanbase when you have ready-made fan bases in other cities". Expanding to the Southern US has not led to large TV deals or opened a ton of alternative revenue. The NHL is still largely a ticket driven league, so one must start to wonder at some point when enough is enough. 20+ years with little progress. Yes, some teams are successful and have a good fanbase, but that shouldn't be the measure. If you put a team in Hamilton you would have a good fanbase. That should be the minimum standard for consideration, not the argument for success. It's like my sister-in-law arguing that the guy she is dating likes her and treats her well, so she thinks he's "the one". That should be the minimum criteria to dating someone, not the reasoning behind marriage! The measure of success should be the widespread adoption of the game across the US as reflected in television revenue. It's in people from outside the cities teams are located in caring about and wanting to watch hockey. In that measure, expansion has been a failure. So when do you pull the plug, admit that you are a ticket driven business, and start ensuring ticket revenue, even in down seasons, by locating teams in areas that will guarantee a large and passionate fanbase?

First off I am going to say good luck to the Panthers. They have a great team this year and should be a good team for a long time.

On the fans tho. Its seems to me there are not a lot of "true" fans as I would describe them. The Florida fans hockey knowledge "seems" low and if it were a bit higher they probably would have more fans and more consistent fans that don't require the team to be "successful" all the time to show up.

Just my 2 cents.

First off I am going to say good luck to the Panthers. They have a great team this year and should be a good team for a long time.

On the fans tho. Its seems to me there are not a lot of "true" fans as I would describe them. The Florida fans hockey knowledge "seems" low and if it were a bit higher they probably would have more fans and more consistent fans that don't require the team to be "successful" all the time to show up.

Just my 2 cents.
- Aerchon

What fans are you referring too? I'm going to assume that you base this off of comment on this site. You shouldn't. And if you have this opinion about South Florida, you must also have it about fans in St. Louis, Chicago, Boston, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Carolina.... all teams that suffer or suffered from low attendance until winning became commonplace.

Just to give it some perspective... I, along with my family, was a season ticket holder in the early to mid 00's. I have followed this team since day 1 in 1993. My uncle stopped buying his tickets because of the teams' play. I myself had my own season tickets but stopped with them about 5 years ago. I bought season tickets again for next season and was able to secure playoff tickets at the reduced price. I was SO UNFAMILIAR with the playoff ticket process that I felt like I had only been a fan for five minutes. We're not used to winning here. We will be.

Strawman about to get stirred!

In an age of unparalleled parity, courting fans that only put their money on the table when you are winning is a dangerous fiscal game to play.

I'm an Oilers fan. I share season tickets and go to about 10 games a year. It has been mostly atrocious hockey for the last 10 years, but I go. And so do many other fans. The building is always packed. For a perennially losing team with virtually no hope on the horizon to turn it around. Don't tell me that ANY team with losing seasons will have trouble selling tickets. It's just not true.

The argument, for me at least, has never been that there are no fans in some of the less traditional markets (for lack of a better categorization). It has not been that the fans aren't vocal or don't rabidly support their team. It's that the fanbase just isn't big enough. You get yourself 100,000 fans and you're going to sell out the building during the good times as they'll all want to attend the game. You start losing, though, and then maybe only 1 in 10 will want to attend (if that) and all of a sudden you only have 10,000 show up. Take that same situation to a city with 500,000 fans. They'll sell out in the good times and in the bad times, 1 in 10 will give you 50,000 people who want tickets. 1 in 20 is still a sellout. Oh, and of course you need to factor in ticket price. In 2014-15, the average ticket price in Florida was at the bottom of the league and less than half that of small market Canadian teams like Edmonton and Winnipeg. Not selling out is one thing. Not selling out while offering dirt-cheap tickets is another. Especially when a half full stadium in a traditional market is essentially worth as much as a sellout in Florida.

I know the way to grow a fanbase is through winning which the Panthers haven't done much of for a while. It's just that the counter-argument is "why bother growing a fanbase when you have ready-made fan bases in other cities". Expanding to the Southern US has not led to large TV deals or opened a ton of alternative revenue. The NHL is still largely a ticket driven league, so one must start to wonder at some point when enough is enough. 20+ years with little progress. Yes, some teams are successful and have a good fanbase, but that shouldn't be the measure. If you put a team in Hamilton you would have a good fanbase. That should be the minimum standard for consideration, not the argument for success. It's like my sister-in-law arguing that the guy she is dating likes her and treats her well, so she thinks he's "the one". That should be the minimum criteria to dating someone, not the reasoning behind marriage! The measure of success should be the widespread adoption of the game across the US as reflected in television revenue. It's in people from outside the cities teams are located in caring about and wanting to watch hockey. In that measure, expansion has been a failure. So when do you pull the plug, admit that you are a ticket driven business, and start ensuring ticket revenue, even in down seasons, by locating teams in areas that will guarantee a large and passionate fanbase?
- Centacre

Another one of these posts...except this one should be titled "War and Peace".

- smellmyfinger

And don't call me Shirley.

In an age of unparalleled parity, courting fans that only put their money on the table when you are winning is a dangerous fiscal game to play.

I'm an Oilers fan. I share season tickets and go to about 10 games a year. It has been mostly atrocious hockey for the last 10 years, but I go. And so do many other fans. The building is always packed. For a perennially losing team with virtually no hope on the horizon to turn it around. Don't tell me that ANY team with losing seasons will have trouble selling tickets. It's just not true.

The argument, for me at least, has never been that there are no fans in some of the less traditional markets (for lack of a better categorization). It has not been that the fans aren't vocal or don't rabidly support their team. It's that the fanbase just isn't big enough. You get yourself 100,000 fans and you're going to sell out the building during the good times as they'll all want to attend the game. You start losing, though, and then maybe only 1 in 10 will want to attend (if that) and all of a sudden you only have 10,000 show up. Take that same situation to a city with 500,000 fans. They'll sell out in the good times and in the bad times, 1 in 10 will give you 50,000 people who want tickets. 1 in 20 is still a sellout. Oh, and of course you need to factor in ticket price. In 2014-15, the average ticket price in Florida was at the bottom of the league and less than half that of small market Canadian teams like Edmonton and Winnipeg. Not selling out is one thing. Not selling out while offering dirt-cheap tickets is another. Especially when a half full stadium in a traditional market is essentially worth as much as a sellout in Florida.

I know the way to grow a fanbase is through winning which the Panthers haven't done much of for a while. It's just that the counter-argument is "why bother growing a fanbase when you have ready-made fan bases in other cities". Expanding to the Southern US has not led to large TV deals or opened a ton of alternative revenue. The NHL is still largely a ticket driven league, so one must start to wonder at some point when enough is enough. 20+ years with little progress. Yes, some teams are successful and have a good fanbase, but that shouldn't be the measure. If you put a team in Hamilton you would have a good fanbase. That should be the minimum standard for consideration, not the argument for success. It's like my sister-in-law arguing that the guy she is dating likes her and treats her well, so she thinks he's "the one". That should be the minimum criteria to dating someone, not the reasoning behind marriage! The measure of success should be the widespread adoption of the game across the US as reflected in television revenue. It's in people from outside the cities teams are located in caring about and wanting to watch hockey. In that measure, expansion has been a failure. So when do you pull the plug, admit that you are a ticket driven business, and start ensuring ticket revenue, even in down seasons, by locating teams in areas that will guarantee a large and passionate fanbase?
- Centacre

you don't know what you're talking about regarding canadian teams. intelligent fans don't put up with crap product. that's why you'll note that when the Habs and Nux were bad fans refused to show up in the same numbers as before.

not showing up or buying merchandise forces the mgmt to do a better job with the product on the ice. until fans in edmonton or toronto learn this, they will continue in their laughing stock kind of ways.

people in Montreal and Vancouver have plenty of other entertainment options and will exercise their ability to go to them instead.

First off I am going to say good luck to the Panthers. They have a great team this year and should be a good team for a long time.

On the fans tho. Its seems to me there are not a lot of "true" fans as I would describe them. The Florida fans hockey knowledge "seems" low and if it were a bit higher they probably would have more fans and more consistent fans that don't require the team to be "successful" all the time to show up.

Just my 2 cents.
- Aerchon

it's not just hockey knowledge, it's knowledge in genral when it comes to florida..

We know there's a fan base. You don't need to tell us. I've been down there for a few games. I've seen plenty of red shirts. But nobody draws more of the oppositions fans than you guys do. There will be tons of blue and orange in the seats this weekend

We know there's a fan base. You don't need to tell us. I've been down there for a few games. I've seen plenty of red shirts. But nobody draws more of the oppositions fans than you guys do. There will be tons of blue and orange in the seats this weekend
- BringNYIhome

Have to disagree with you here. And that's coming from an original Isles fan since 1973 in Ronkonkoma NY. In reality, the Isles fans have dwindled from attending here over the years. That's been very obvious for whatever reason. Playoff seats have in mass been scooped up by Panther fans. Bandwagon filling quickly, and that's ok. A good consistent team makes band wagoners become hard core fans

Have to disagree with you here. And that's coming from an original Isles fan since 1973 in Ronkonkoma NY. In reality, the Isles fans have dwindled from attending here over the years. That's been very obvious for whatever reason. Playoff seats have in mass been scooped up by Panther fans. Bandwagon filling quickly, and that's ok. A good consistent team makes band wagoners become hard core fans
- PanthersGoal

Guy. I was just there. It was riddled with Islander fans. I travel to a lot of different places to see the Isles. Twice as many as there are at any other place. Including MSG and Newark. So have some info before you call someone out

Have to disagree with you here. And that's coming from an original Isles fan since 1973 in Ronkonkoma NY. In reality, the Isles fans have dwindled from attending here over the years. That's been very obvious for whatever reason. Playoff seats have in mass been scooped up by Panther fans. Bandwagon filling quickly, and that's ok. A good consistent team makes band wagoners become hard core fans
- PanthersGoal

Didn't realize you were a Panthers fan. My dads delusional too. It's ok

Have to disagree with you here. And that's coming from an original Isles fan since 1973 in Ronkonkoma NY. In reality, the Isles fans have dwindled from attending here over the years. That's been very obvious for whatever reason. Playoff seats have in mass been scooped up by Panther fans. Bandwagon filling quickly, and that's ok. A good consistent team makes band wagoners become hard core fans
- PanthersGoal

I was there last season and it was at least 40 % islander fans so im not sure what dwindling down youre referring too? Not sure what the playoffs will look like but your blogger needs to stop with these blogs that scream imsecurity. The constant whining for respect wont garner any from anyone. Its honestly cringe worthy.

Didn't realize you were a Panthers fan. My dads delusional too. It's ok
- BringNYIhome

Yawn...another shyt talker..

I was there last season and it was at least 40 % islander fans so im not sure what dwindling down youre referring too?
- Cptmjl

Yeah 40%..they don't get that head count in Brooklyn.

Yeah 40%..they don't get that head count in Brooklyn.
- PanthersGoal

Well that's not true so yeah my point remains and what I stated was a fact but get nasty and insulting. Thats how people who are wrong normally react. Keep up the good fight.

Well that's not true so yeah my point remains and what I stated was a fact but get nasty and insulting. Thats how people who are wrong normally react. Keep up the good fight.
- Cptmjl

All joking aside, you're way off. Not going to tell you there haven't been teams that have drawn a 40% night, but the Isles are not one of them.

All joking aside, you're way off. Not going to tell you there haven't been teams that have drawn a 40% night, but the Isles are not one of them.
- PanthersGoal

Must have been just that night last season and the other time two seasons ago. Coincidence I guess the last two times I've been there that there just happened to be a lot of islander fans there? I was there got center ice tickets one section up with a ten dollar food and beverage voucher last season for forty bucks. Ive been to your arena quite a few times the last few years. Beautiful place and inexpensive tickets. Enjoy it while you can but I saw what I saw im not fabricating it to insult the Panthers you've seen me on this thread enough times to know that im not doing that. I've always been on the positive side of the fence when it comes to your team. Though that'll change tomorrow of course.

Yeah 40%..they don't get that head count in Brooklyn.
- PanthersGoal

You are last in the league in attendance every year with one of the largest buildings in the league. Only way you sell out games 1 and 2 are thanks to the 7000 islander fans who will pack the building.

I was there last season and it was at least 40 % islander fans so im not sure what dwindling down youre referring too? Not sure what the playoffs will look like but your blogger needs to stop with these blogs that scream imsecurity. The constant whining for respect wont garner any from anyone. Its honestly cringe worthy.
- Cptmjl

Seriously. Just calling it like I see it. Was there in November. 30-40% Islander fans. My father and I were laughing in disbelief at the Islander representation there. And when the Rangers fans pack the building it's probably 30% Panther fans. Total joke.

You are last in the league in attendance every year with one of the largest buildings in the league. Only way you sell out games 1 and 2 are thanks to the 7000 islander fans who will pack the building.
- BringNYIhome

We'll see they've been drawing well this season with a winning team. There will definitely be islander fans there (I'll probably go down for a game if the series lasts long enough) but not sure if it'll be as much as I've seen in the past? Also im not sure if theyre limiting ticket sales to out of staters like Tampa did? Have a feeling this is going to be a nasty/good series

Seriously. Just calling it like I see it. Was there in November. 30-40% Islander fans. My father and I were laughing in disbelief at the Islander representation there. And when the Rangers fans pack the building it's probably 30% Panther fans. Total joke.
- BringNYIhome

Pal, you shouldn't be tossing rocks around that glass house YOU play in. Get real.

You are last in the league in attendance every year with one of the largest buildings in the league. Only way you sell out games 1 and 2 are thanks to the 7000 islander fans who will pack the building.
- BringNYIhome

Hmm, last, huh?

24 Florida 15,384 90.3
25 Winnipeg 15,294 101.9
26 New Jersey 15,073 91.3
27 Columbus 14,262 78.6
28 NY Islanders 13,626 86.2
29 Arizona 13,433 78.4
30 Carolina 12,203 65.3

Second column is percent full. So, you can blame it on other teams having small arenas, and they would have higher numbers than us if their arena was bigger, but that only counts for Winnipeg. And gee, who is four spots down, and less full?

To the point of having more away fans than any other team, go to a Carolina game, its insane. Went to a Rangers game there the other year, and the whole game was filled with 'Hen-Rik' chants and they even sang the damn goal song loud enough to echo the arena when Rangers scored. It was a good 50-60% rangers. That's probably even conservative..

Yea, we get a lot of Islanders fans in the building... and Rangers, Maple Leafs, Habs, Bruins, Devils, Flyers, Penguins, Sabres, Red Wings, and Blackhawks.

So many people moved to Florida from NY, NJ, PA, MI, IL, MA, CT in addition to Canadian immigrants and snow birds, that we are now the 3rd most populous state after California and Texas. People move here, but sports loyalties are slower to change.

Only about 10-20% of the local residents over 25 years old actually grew up here. They come for good weather, jobs, low taxes, and better lifestyle. They are lucky and pleased to enjoy hockey here and enjoy seeing the team from back home.

We're definitely a different and growing market compared to the older, declining rust belt areas. So what? As time passes, most will become Panther fans, and their kids definitely will.

I still follow the Blackhawks, but now I prefer the Panthers.

Go Panthers.