Not sure if there are many that hate Ryan or Hoffman. Frustrated would probably best describe many people's feelings towards one or both players.
Ryan received the $7.25M per year contract at the end of a 3-4 year period of continually increasing salary caps and player deals. The $7.25M per year only represents value in the context of significant annual increases in the cap. For the numbers that Ryan produces, he is overpaid by $1.25M to $2M per year. The #1 issue I have with Ryan was well stated by Brian Burke - Bobby Ryan can't spell intensity. It is hard to say whether Ryan's finger injuries have played a role in his poor final 30 games the past 2 seasons but it is a huge cause for concern. Ottawa is a better team with Bobby Ryan than without. That said, he is a candidate to be exposed in any expansion draft.

With Melnyk's penny pinching ways, it is tough for fans not to personalize and overreact to poor value contracts as they prevent the team from improving elsewhere.

As for Hoffman, I hope we can get him for $5.5M per year for 5 years or something close to that. He still has improvements that can be made on the defensive side but perhaps coaching / team style changes away from the riverboat gambler, high event hockey might see improvements in his defensive game and that of a few other players as well.

The 2 most consistent, skilled and important Ottawa forwards are Kyle Turris and Mark Stone. It is important that salary cap space is allotted to pay them more money than what Hoffman will receive.
- SensFan25

Excellent points! Very well written!

Would you accept this deal?

To COL: Kadri, Zibanejad, Smith OR Chabot

To OTT: Duchene

To TOR: 10th overall pick

Would you accept this deal?

To COL: Kadri, Zibanejad, Smith OR Chabot

To OTT: Duchene

To TOR: 10th overall pick
- AlfieisKing

I would but Toronto gets shafted.

I would but Toronto gets shafted.
- Mr_Clean

you think the leafs are getting shafted????

you honestly think kadri alone is worth a top 10 pick?

leafs are making out like bandits in that deal.....even if you add gardiner still not sure that's worth a lottery pick.

Would you accept this deal?

To COL: Kadri, Zibanejad, Smith OR Chabot

To OTT: Duchene

To TOR: 10th overall pick
- AlfieisKing

Pretty even deal. Too bad Duchene is likely going no where.

Pretty even deal. Too bad Duchene is likely going no where.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

good for ottawa and colorado....the leafs make out like bandits. kadri is not worth the 10th overall pick (or a lotter pick, depending on when the deal is made)

good for ottawa and colorado....the leafs make out like bandits. kadri is not worth the 10th overall pick (or a lotter pick, depending on when the deal is made)
- sensarmy_11

I wouldn't say make out like bandits, but they get good value for Kadri, with most likely getting Matthews to replace him earlier in the draft.

Duchene isn't going anywhere though, unless Patrick Roy becomes crazy and holds that grudge from Duchene celebrating too much on pointless goals.

you think the leafs are getting shafted????

you honestly think kadri alone is worth a top 10 pick?

leafs are making out like bandits in that deal.....even if you add gardiner still not sure that's worth a lottery pick.
- sensarmy_11

10th overall picks aren't worth the sh*t you think they are.

You telling me Kadri - a former 7th overall pick with several years of development under his belt - is worth less than a 10th overall?

From 2013 backwards:
Nicushkin
koekkoek
brodin
McIlrath
Paajarvi-Svensson
Hodgson
Ellerby
Frolik
Bourdon (rip)
valabik
A kostitsyn
Nystrom

And it doesn't get much better from there on back.

Tell me, how many of these players have had a career as good as Kadri?

And this is not some huge defense of Kadri - he is a decent player who led his team is scoring this year. Just a critique of how badly people overrate a 10th overall pick.

I can't believe how people would rather have a potential 45-50 pt scorer in 3-4 years than a guy who will be a 45-50 player for each of the next 3-4 years

I wouldn't say make out like bandits, but they get good value for Kadri, with most likely getting Matthews to replace him earlier in the draft.

Duchene isn't going anywhere though, unless Patrick Roy becomes crazy and holds that grudge from Duchene celebrating too much on pointless goals.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Define 'most likely'. You mean more likely than any other team? Most likely they draft 4th overall, statistically speaking.

Define 'most likely'. You mean more likely than any other team? Most likely they draft 4th overall, statistically speaking.
- Mr_Clean

Poorly worded. It's early in the morning. Screw off. They can certainly get the top pick.

If they were to get Matthew, I can see them making a flurry of moves right after drafting him.

10th overall picks aren't worth the sh*t you think they are.

You telling me Kadri - a former 7th overall pick with several years of development under his belt - is worth less than a 10th overall?

From 2013 backwards:
Nicushkin
koekkoek
brodin
McIlrath
Paajarvi-Svensson
Hodgson
Ellerby
Frolik
Bourdon (rip)
valabik
A kostitsyn
Nystrom

And it doesn't get much better from there on back.

Tell me, how many of these players have had a career as good as Kadri?

And this is not some huge defense of Kadri - he is a decent player who led his team is scoring this year. Just a critique of how badly people overrate a 10th overall pick.

I can't believe how people would rather have a potential 45-50 pt scorer in 3-4 years than a guy who will be a 45-50 player for each of the next 3-4 years


- Mr_Clean

Yeah idk if leafs make that deal. They need some players to fill out the roster Nylander Bozak would be there two centers then I guess

I just want to throw in my 2 cents about Bobby Ryan.

The reason he bothers me is that he's either

1. lazy
or
2. slow as hell

Or a combination of both.

He is in his so called 'prime' right now. When it comes to his skating, he's not going to get any faster for the rest of his career.

Apparently, he worked out really hard in the offseason to get himself into shape, so it's not a matter of him being out of shape (supposedly).

He has fizzled out from February, on, for the last two seasons. When and if Ottawa becomes a playoff team again, we can't afford to have $7M passengers on this team.

It's been two years of this now. If the same thing happens again next season, then we can safely assume he's going to struggle to finish the season every year going forward. By then we can make a decision if it's smart to leave him unprotected in the expansion draft.

By doing that, it also insulates some of our younger (cheaper) players from being picked.

Yeah idk if leafs make that deal. They need some players to fill out the roster Nylander Bozak would be there two centers then I guess
- ClarksonDavid

My thinking, if the Leafs nab Matthews, then a lot of dominos will fall. Having Matthews, Nylander, and Bozak would be a good start up the middle. It would leave room to move Kadri for another asset (not necessarily the deal in this thread).

If they don't get Matthews, they will likely stay pat with what they have unless they get a good offer.

Not sure how accurate the NHL lottery simulator is in relation to the real one, but when people run it, it seems fairly unpredictable and open. You never know. Let's just hope Edmonton doesn't steal the show yet again.

I just realized we leapfrogged two teams with that win last night.

What a devastating win.

I just want to throw in my 2 cents about Bobby Ryan.

The reason he bothers me is that he's either

1. lazy
or
2. slow as hell

Or a combination of both.

He is in his so called 'prime' right now. When it comes to his skating, he's not going to get any faster for the rest of his career.

Apparently, he worked out really hard in the offseason to get himself into shape, so it's not a matter of him being out of shape (supposedly).

He has fizzled out from February, on, for the last two seasons. When and if Ottawa becomes a playoff team again, we can't afford to have $7M passengers on this team.

It's been two years of this now. If the same thing happens again next season, then we can safely assume he's going to struggle to finish the season every year going forward. By then we can make a decision if it's smart to leave him unprotected in the expansion draft.

By doing that, it also insulates some of our younger (cheaper) players from being picked.
- Charliebox

I don't get the lazy point. He's not the fastest skater agree, which might make him look lazy, but he definitely has a solid work ethic. I don't know what to say about his late season slumps. They are frustrating, but he was arguably the teams best forward in the first halves of the last two years. He has the ability. I think the right coach can get him going more consistently.

People love throwing his salary out there and expect him to produce, but he is not an elite player who make 9-10 mill per season. Those guys are expected to be consistent beasts. Guys int he 7 mill range are very good players, but will likely not tare up the scoring race. His production is very similar to guys making the same coin (who have signed long term deals).

I'd love to see Ryan produce more in the 2nd half. Not sure how to make that happen, but I'd be weary trying to move him for essentially nothing. Seems to me the last time we got rid a significant roster player and got actual quality back was the Yashin (Maybe the Heatley/Hossa deal, but Hossa's career has been great) deal. After that, we seem to be just dropping great players and replacing them with duct tape. Scary part is, most fans seem absolutely fine with this.

My thinking, if the Leafs nab Matthews, then a lot of dominos will fall. Having Matthews, Nylander, and Bozak would be a good start up the middle. It would leave room to move Kadri for another asset (not necessarily the deal in this thread).

If they don't get Matthews, they will likely stay pat with what they have unless they get a good offer.

Not sure how accurate the NHL lottery simulator is in relation to the real one, but when people run it, it seems fairly unpredictable and open. You never know. Let's just hope Edmonton doesn't steal the show yet again.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I believe that Shanahan intends to completely tear down the organization he inherited. The players in that organization are synonymous with a lack of discipline, selfish play and choking when it matters.
The Leafs will unload all of the Maple Leafs players in place when he arrived, with the exception of Morgan Reilly and up to 2 others. Anybody closely associated with the Burke regime such as Kadri, Bozak and others will be gone within 3 years at the absolute latest.

My thinking, if the Leafs nab Matthews, then a lot of dominos will fall. Having Matthews, Nylander, and Bozak would be a good start up the middle. It would leave room to move Kadri for another asset (not necessarily the deal in this thread).

If they don't get Matthews, they will likely stay pat with what they have unless they get a good offer.

Not sure how accurate the NHL lottery simulator is in relation to the real one, but when people run it, it seems fairly unpredictable and open. You never know. Let's just hope Edmonton doesn't steal the show yet again.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Mathews Nylander one two gets me excited probably won't happen though. I could see them moving JVR or Kadri for D help.

I believe that Shanahan intends to completely tear down the organization he inherited. The players in that organization are synonymous with a lack of discipline, selfish play and choking when it matters.
The Leafs will unload all of the Maple Leafs players in place when he arrived, with the exception of Morgan Reilly and up to 2 others. Anybody closely associated with the Burke regime such as Kadri, Bozak and others will be gone within 3 years at the absolute latest.
- SensFan25

He's already done that pretty much.. Moved on from Kessel and phaneuf plus others. This team is completely different already then what was there when he came

I don't get the lazy point. He's not the fastest skater agree, which might make him look lazy, but he definitely has a solid work ethic. I don't know what to say about his late season slumps. They are frustrating, but he was arguably the teams best forward in the first halves of the last two years. He has the ability. I think the right coach can get him going more consistently.

People love throwing his salary out there and expect him to produce, but he is not an elite player who make 9-10 mill per season. Those guys are expected to be consistent beasts. Guys int he 7 mill range are very good players, but will likely not tare up the scoring race. His production is very similar to guys making the same coin (who have signed long term deals).

I'd love to see Ryan produce more in the 2nd half. Not sure how to make that happen, but I'd be weary trying to move him for essentially nothing. Seems to me the last time we got rid a significant roster player and got actual quality back was the Yashin (Maybe the Heatley/Hossa deal, but Hossa's career has been great) deal. After that, we seem to be just dropping great players and replacing them with duct tape. Scary part is, most fans seem absolutely fine with this.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Remember I am making my points based on the fact that Melnyk is our owner.

If we were a cap team, or strived to be a cap team, I wouldn't worry so much.

Ryan's contract (and his production compared to his contract) worries me down the road. The next couple years will be fine, but when guys like Turris, Stone, and EK are getting closer to their new deals, the Ryan contract is going to hurt.

Hockey players typically don't get faster as they age, and there comes a point when a player, no matter how good his hands are, will become totally useless if they can't keep up.

Look at what happened to Cheechoo after his sports hernia surgery.

Remember I am making my points based on the fact that Melnyk is our owner.

If we were a cap team, or strived to be a cap team, I wouldn't worry so much.

Ryan's contract (and his production compared to his contract) worries me down the road. The next couple years will be fine, but when guys like Turris, Stone, and EK are getting closer to their new deals, the Ryan contract is going to hurt.

Hockey players typically don't get faster as they age, and there comes a point when a player, no matter how good his hands are, will become totally useless if they can't keep up.

Look at what happened to Cheechoo after his sports hernia surgery.
- Charliebox

Ya. I don't disagree with the down the road argument, which is why I was posting earlier that is is important to try and win within the next 3 years. Once Karlsson needs a new contract that will likely be the richest one for a d-man in history, it will likely change the make up of this team.

Time to bring in a forward and some insurance on defence. Try to shop around for a true fist line centre which is easier said than done.

Mathews Nylander one two gets me excited probably won't happen though. I could see them moving JVR or Kadri for D help.
- ClarksonDavid

Wr all know edmonton is winning the lottery.