If you leave you are breaking your formation. While not having a stick sucks you still have a chance to block a shot or get in the way. If you leave.. All the seams are open and you are completely exposed
- Dan Petriw

I fully believe that the difference in not having a stick and not being there at all is marginal, at best, in terms of the player's effectiveness. Is he technically more useful standing there and trying to do what you said? Yes, probably.

Is it enough of an advantage to justify being next-to-useless until there is a whistle? I don't believe that. I'd rather see the other 3 guys have to step it up big-time for a few seconds. I don't think the time that you'd be giving the opponent would be significant enough to be consistently detrimental to the team in the long run.

They're already down a man because the player is just standing there doing literally nothing.

Let's be real here, Frans blocking that shot was great and all, but any half-competent defenseman would have never opted to shoot that puck directly at him. Had whoever it was not taken the shot Frans would have been on his knees and completely useless.

So, in summation, you can stand around and do nothing. Or you can bust your ass to the bench and go get something that can help you become effective again.

Save the "you didn't play hockey at a high level" garbage, too. Because A) you have no idea what level of hockey I played at and B) I highly doubt you played at a level high enough to be casting aspersions on anyone who thinks outside of the "Old Time NHL-approved" way of thinking.
- eichiefs9

Chiefs, you and I had this same discussion on another thread and I said the same thing about keepingg the formation etc. It's the way your coached from Pee Wee to Pro and I think it must have its merits and still is considered the the best option as you see it played that way all the time in the best league in the world.

They're already down a man because the player is just standing there doing literally nothing.

Let's be real here, Frans blocking that shot was great and all, but any half-competent defenseman would have never opted to shoot that puck directly at him. Had whoever it was not taken the shot Frans would have been on his knees and completely useless.

So, in summation, you can stand around and do nothing. Or you can bust your ass to the bench and go get something that can help you become effective again.

Save the "you didn't play hockey at a high level" garbage, too. Because A) you have no idea what level of hockey I played at and B) I highly doubt you played at a level high enough to be casting aspersions on anyone who thinks outside of the "Old Time NHL-approved" way of thinking.
- eichiefs9

Say what you want but A) you have no idea what you are talking about and B) No coach would ever tell you to do that. Even if you got back int he play with the stick that you bust your ass to get you will still get punished.

Also hate to burst your bubble but this is the new NHL approved way of thinking as well with any team

They're already down a man because the player is just standing there doing literally nothing.

Let's be real here, Frans blocking that shot was great and all, but any half-competent defenseman would have never opted to shoot that puck directly at him. Had whoever it was not taken the shot Frans would have been on his knees and completely useless.

So, in summation, you can stand around and do nothing. Or you can bust your ass to the bench and go get something that can help you become effective again.

Save the "you didn't play hockey at a high level" garbage, too. Because A) you have no idea what level of hockey I played at and B) I highly doubt you played at a level high enough to be casting aspersions on anyone who thinks outside of the "Old Time NHL-approved" way of thinking.
- eichiefs9

Midnight Hockey defensive player of the year !

Midnight Hockey defensive player of the year !
- nyisles7

And best looking.

Say what you want but A) you have no idea what you are talking about and B) No coach would ever tell you to do that. Even if you got back int he play with the stick that you bust your ass to get you will still get punished.

Also hate to burst your bubble but this is the new NHL approved way of thinking as well with any team
- kasperrko

Next tell me how enforcers deter people from hurting your star player.

The game evolves, like it or not. And your best put together answer of "that's just how it is" isn't something I accept as valid from you or anyone.

I fully believe that the difference in not having a stick and not being there at all is marginal, at best, in terms of the player's effectiveness. Is he technically more useful standing there and trying to do what you said? Yes, probably.

Is it enough of an advantage to justify being next-to-useless until there is a whistle? I don't believe that. I'd rather see the other 3 guys have to step it up big-time for a few seconds. I don't think the time that you'd be giving the opponent would be significant enough to be consistently detrimental to the team in the long run.
- eichiefs9

lets just agree to disagree then

And best looking.
- eichiefs9

- nyisles7

Man there was a guy that played in that Midnight Hockey league that didn't look too far off from that monkey. Nicest guy in the world, but holy hell he genuinely might have been one of the ugliest people I've ever seen in my life. I feel terrible saying that because he was so nice, but jesus christ it was bad.

Next tell me how enforcers deter people from hurting your star player.

The game evolves, like it or not. And your best put together answer of "that's just how it is" isn't something I accept as valid from you or anyone.
- eichiefs9

Wow I hope you are ok?? Its ok man dont go crazy now. We can disagree on this point but if you were in the NHL and tried it then you would be benched that is all I am saying., Sometimes it is not the smartest play. Now if it was Josh Bailey or Strait it would not make a difference since they are invisible anyway

Man there was a guy that played in that Midnight Hockey league that didn't look too far off from that monkey. Nicest guy in the world, but holy hell he genuinely might have been one of the ugliest people I've ever seen in my life. I feel terrible saying that because he was so nice, but jesus christ it was bad.
- eichiefs9

I know who your talking about
Good defenseman right?

Wow I hope you are ok?? Its ok man dont go crazy now. We can disagree on this point but if you were in the NHL and tried it then you would be benched that is all I am saying., Sometimes it is not the smartest play. Now if it was Josh Bailey or Strait it would not make a difference since they are invisible anyway
- kasperrko

Not sure which part of that you think was me "going crazy". But the reasons you gave in favor of it were pretty simply put "because that's how it is". All I'm saying is that an answer like that isn't enough to convince me that it's the right way to do things. It may be how things are done currently, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved on. That's what I'm saying.

I know who your talking about
Good defenseman right?
- nyisles7

"Good" might be a bit of a stretch, but yeah. Pretty solid defenseman for beer league. Wears a weird halfer. I think had bleached blond hair (god, why?) at some point(s).

strait has a bottom five corsi number for the entire league
- Dan Petriw

They should call Mayfield up from BPT today. Let him play on Saturday. His grit will be needed.

They should call Mayfield up from BPT today. Let him play on Saturday. His grit will be needed.
- Jethro09

in no world should he be playing over pulock... his skating is just not good enough

Not sure which part of that you think was me "going crazy". But the reasons you gave in favor of it were pretty simply put "because that's how it is". All I'm saying is that an answer like that isn't enough to convince me that it's the right way to do things. It may be how things are done currently, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved on. That's what I'm saying.
- eichiefs9

Agreed I just dont know how they can actually do this without the player leaving the play. I am sure they can change it some how but again it will leave the team vulnerable for a few seconds

in no world should he be playing over pulock... his skating is just not good enough
- Dan Petriw

If they aren't going to play Pulock, I'd rather see them dress 13 forwards than dress Marek Zidlicky.

Not sure which part of that you think was me "going crazy". But the reasons you gave in favor of it were pretty simply put "because that's how it is". All I'm saying is that an answer like that isn't enough to convince me that it's the right way to do things. It may be how things are done currently, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved on. That's what I'm saying.
- eichiefs9

he had me at "because"

knowing it isnt the conventional play ...i happen to agree with you though, teams have escaped 5 on 3 plenty of times and thats been on a full 2 minute penalty, not the 4.3 seconds itll take to skate back and forth. AND when the play is closer to the bench, even more so, go get a stick.

he had me at "because"

...i happen to agree with you though, teams have escaped 5 on 3 plenty of times and thats been on a full 2 minute penalty, not the 4.3 seconds itll take to skate back and forth. AND when the play is closer to the bench, even more so, go get a stick.
- LetsGoIsles

About the only time I could accept it not being done is in the 2nd period with the long change. Even then, I still think it's more beneficial to just rip the band-aid off and go get a stick.

Not sure which part of that you think was me "going crazy". But the reasons you gave in favor of it were pretty simply put "because that's how it is". All I'm saying is that an answer like that isn't enough to convince me that it's the right way to do things. It may be how things are done currently, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved on. That's what I'm saying.
- eichiefs9

You're both right. The majority is right that NHL teams have since forever expected their stickless players to defend as best they can until a whistle. And chiefs is right that it might be time to think outside the box.

The situation typically arises on the PK where there are two possibilities.....

1. A 5 on 3 1/2 for however long before a whistle. (The defender without the stick is worth roughly half a defender with a stick.)

2. A 5 on 3 for a few seconds, the exact length of which is determined by the speed of the defender and whether it's "the period of the long change."

I think there are circumstances where it may make sense to grab a stick.

Disclaimer: I never played anything other than a little pond hockey, but have been a fan since.........forever.

About the only time I could accept it not being done is in the 2nd period with the long change. Even then, I still think it's more beneficial to just rip the band-aid off and go get a stick.
- eichiefs9

I agree. It has not worked for the Isles on more than a few occasions when they tried to play without a stick.

he had me at "because"

knowing it isnt the conventional play ...i happen to agree with you though, teams have escaped 5 on 3 plenty of times and thats been on a full 2 minute penalty, not the 4.3 seconds itll take to skate back and forth. AND when the play is closer to the bench, even more so, go get a stick.
- LetsGoIsles

That point of time in the game with the Islanders already down 6 on 4 I just think Frans did the right thing. One man short I understand but 2 men down already and they were pressuring at the time was not the time to do it. You want to know why?
BECAUSE

About the only time I could accept it not being done is in the 2nd period with the long change. Even then, I still think it's more beneficial to just rip the band-aid off and go get a stick.
- eichiefs9

I'm just picturing Cappy blankly looking back and forth while you all have this debate.

who knows... we don't even know where Garth is... he is the loch ness monster... you hear rumors.. see a few picks with some chicks but their is no tangible proof of his existence
- Dan Petriw

We have a Garth sighting....looking clueless as ever...seriously...guy is out to lunch
Curious picture...what does Ledecky mean by the gesture he is making?

https://www.facebook.com/...021940263/?type=3&theater

I'm just picturing Cappy blankly looking back and forth while you all have this debate.
- UIF

"OAH-KAY YEA GAIZE, BUT WAT I NEEDTAH KNOWAH IS 'DOES THE PLAYAH DAT BROKE HIS STICK HAVE MOAH OAH LESS EXPEERYANCE THAN PULOAHCK'?"