the thing is we can no longer retain salary, we have already hit the cap with the previous trade, so any other trade from here on out has to be done straight up. until next year that is when the retained salaries from hopefully Lecavalier (pray he retires) and schenn come off the books
- sjk540

it's by year. so at the draft, all three we retained this year should be off the books

Unless a player is in serious danger, they cannot by rule blow the play dead until his team has the puck.

See: Thoresen, Patrick, 2008.
- jmatchett383

As I said, when the play was whistled dead, that was the reason I thought.

the thing is we can no longer retain salary, we have already hit the cap with the previous trade, so any other trade from here on out has to be done straight up. until next year that is when the retained salaries from hopefully Lecavalier (pray he retires) and schenn come off the books
- sjk540

Right, but that would be done at the draft after Lecavalier retires/mutually terminates.

Right, but that would be done at the draft after Lecavalier wins the cup and the conn smythe and then retires/mutually terminates.
- jmatchett383

FTFY

i still like this deal too, but i cant explain for the life of me why some fans still call it a bust. of course, if this was strictly a trade for talent, then of course, we got fleeced. there was one reason and one reason only for this trade, cap space. umbergers hit comes off the books this year as obviously u already know, but hartnell would still be on the books until 2018! this was a strictly numbers related move, and being that hartnell wasnt a player that could just throw us on his shoulders and singlehandedly win us a stanley cup, it didnt really matter that we gave up talent for a bum (sorry, but thats just my opinion, i know it isnt yours fully).

i just still dont get how even after two years people think this was about actually wanting RJ. it was wanting two less years of a contract in essence.
- sjk540

It's about wanting RJ because (OPINION IMPENDING) they could've found a taker for Hartnell without taking back a buyout candidate with a multi-year multi-million dollar contract.

Even with cap considerations (which were undoubtedly a driving factor), RJ was a guy Hextall identified as potential bottom six help.

Well when you stop eating the boobs and fondling the wings, you'll be good to go.
- jmatchett383

I stick to the breasts cause I dont like the bone

It's about wanting RJ because (OPINION IMPENDING) they could've found a taker for Hartnell without taking back a buyout candidate with a multi-year multi-million dollar contract.

Even with cap considerations (which were undoubtedly a driving factor), RJ was a guy Hextall identified as potential bottom six help.
- BulliesPhan87

I honestly just believe that Hextall didn't think Umberger would be this bad. Sometimes you just misjudge.

I honestly just believe that Hextall didn't think Umberger would be this bad. Sometimes you just misjudge.
- MBFlyerfan

Bingo, broseph! The fortunate thing is that the cap advantage can't underperform once he's donezo.

I honestly just believe that Hextall didn't think Umberger would be this bad. Sometimes you just misjudge.
- MBFlyerfan

Exactly this, brotato chip

The cap space argument is a cop out. I thought that way but have seen the light. You cannot tell me that a player should be traded 3 years before you see any real cap relief as a reason for a trade

Exactly this, brotato chip

The cap space argument is a cop out. I thought that way but have seen the light. You cannot tell me that a player should be traded 3 years before you see any real cap relief as a reason for a trade
- YuenglingJagr

Long term cap advantage, short term tank advantage. MOAT was right all along!

Long term cap advantage, short term tank advantage. MOAT was right all along!
- BulliesPhan87

MOAT is always right

Long term cap advantage, short term tank advantage. MOAT was right all along!
- BulliesPhan87

Einhorn is Finkle! Finkle is Einhorn!

Finkle, if Einhorn.

Exactly this, brotato chip

The cap space argument is a cop out. I thought that way but have seen the light. You cannot tell me that a player should be traded 3 years before you see any real cap relief as a reason for a trade
- YuenglingJagr

Well, no. I think that had a lot to do with it. Hexy in no way thought he was getting equal value or even 3/4 the value ON THE ICE in terms of just straight up player for player. But Umberger is not even an NHL player anymore. And Hexy misjudged that aspect of it.

Everyone here, including Hexy, knows Hartnell was and is the better player.

Well, no. I think that had a lot to do with it. Hexy in no way thought he was getting equal value or even 3/4 the value ON THE ICE in terms of just straight up player for player. But Umberger is not even an NHL player anymore. And Hexy misjudged that aspect of it.

Everyone here, including Hexy, knows Hartnell was and is the better player.
- MBFlyerfan

Well than Hextall has learned from it. He has gone into the season with too many defensemen and said things like...it will work itself out. I think making trades for 3 years in the future (sans acquiring prospects) is pretty stupid. If he was making the deal for cap space I dont think he takes back a contract that is almost the same AAV. Two less years was a benefit, but not something that couldn't have been found in another deal

Well than Hextall has learned from it. He has gone into the season with too many defensemen and said things like...it will work itself out. If he was making the deal for cap space I dont think he takes back a contract that is almost the same AAV. Two less years was a benefit, but not something that couldn't have been found in another deal
- YuenglingJagr

He's definitely done better since that one. If the Umberger trade is the worst of Hextall at the end of things, it'll have been a good tenure.

He's definitely done better since that one. If the Umberger trade is the worst of Hextall at the end of things, it'll have been a good tenure.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree, and being critical of the trade shouldn't be taken as disapproval for what Hextall has done

I was really just stating my transition from a guy who thought the deal was about cap space to actually seeing they thought they were getting something else on the ice. It was a stupid trade that we wont talk about in another 2 years, but hopefully will have taught a lesson

Exactly this, brotato chip

The cap space argument is a cop out. I thought that way but have seen the light. You cannot tell me that a player should be traded 3 years before you see any real cap relief as a reason for a trade
- YuenglingJagr

The obvious risk was that if Hartnell fell off and had another season like he did in 12-13 we would have been stuck with him fir the rest of the decade.

The obvious risk was that if Hartnell fell off and had another season like he did in 12-13 we would have been stuck with him fir the rest of the decade.
- Feanor

I think the biggest problem was Holmgren resigning a player in his 30's who was just coming off of a career-best year with term remaining to a long-term deal.

Well than Hextall has learned from it. He has gone into the season with too many defensemen and said things like...it will work itself out. I think making trades for 3 years in the future (sans acquiring prospects) is pretty stupid. If he was making the deal for cap space I dont think he takes back a contract that is almost the same AAV. Two less years was a benefit, but not something that couldn't have been found in another deal
- YuenglingJagr

You're over estimating the value Hartnell had at age 32 with five years left on his contract.

I think the biggest problem was Holmgren resigning a player in his 30's who was just coming off of a career-best year with term remaining to a long-term deal.
- jmatchett383

Yup. He jumped the gun on Hartnell.

need someone like Gudas, teams need to keep their heads up coming into the D zone, that said the hit was garbage.

give Gagner some time, but put him on the 3rd line. Raffle needs more minutes than he had last night.

Provorov joining the rush last night

Provorov joining the rush last night






- PhillySportsGuy

He's sorta okay.

You're over estimating the value Hartnell had at age 32 with five years left on his contract.
- Feanor

I will admit I would probably not being saying this if he weren't still producing at a great clip. But the age is really the reason that I dont care that the deal happened. It is what it is so I will be happy with the cap space, but on the ice it has gone about as bad as possible

He's sorta okay.
- jmatchett383

traid him while he still has value